Harry 67 Posted October 19, 2011 I dont know if anyone has already asked this but-Has anyone ever been reinstated after a forced intai? Has any rikishi ever been reinstated after a voluntary intai??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doitsuyama 1,192 Posted October 20, 2011 I dont know if anyone has already asked this but-Has anyone ever been reinstated after a forced intai? Has any rikishi ever been reinstated after a voluntary intai??? Glad that you asked - it has happened a few times in the past, but only if the rikishi was still fulfilling the entry rules (like, below 23 years old). Known rikishi are Tamanofuji, Iwatora and a few more rikishi. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,495 Posted October 20, 2011 Glad that you asked - it has happened a few times in the past, but only if the rikishi was still fulfilling the entry rules (like, below 23 years old). Known rikishi are Tamanofuji, Iwatora and a few more rikishi. Astounding. All around more or less the same time-frame and nothing since 1973. Could it be that this was allowed between 66-73 and is not allowed today? I find it hard to believe that for the last 38 years nobody who fit the age criteria wanted to return... Not one rikishi? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,643 Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) Glad that you asked - it has happened a few times in the past, but only if the rikishi was still fulfilling the entry rules (like, below 23 years old). Known rikishi are Tamanofuji, Iwatora and a few more rikishi. Yokozuna Miyagiyama also comes to mind, though the circumstances were a lot different than for this 1960s crowd. (BTW, did I just sleep through the announcement or is it really not common knowledge yet that Gans-san's website now has Osaka results? Totally floored me last week.) FWIW, it's probably no coincidence that the cutoff at 1973 is also the time when the Kyokai's recruiting rules were standardized (prompted by the Ministry of Etc. IIRC) to allow only deshi who had finished their compulsory education. I'm more surprised that there are no rejoiners between the end of WWII and 1966-ish. Edited October 20, 2011 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doitsuyama 1,192 Posted October 20, 2011 I'm more surprised that there are no rejoiners between the end of WWII and 1966-ish. Oh, there were, of course. I was just too lazy to count all 119 rikishi who were temporarily out of the kyokai between 1945 and 1956, mostly war-related. No one between 1956 and 1966 though to my knowledge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,643 Posted October 20, 2011 I'm more surprised that there are no rejoiners between the end of WWII and 1966-ish. Oh, there were, of course. I was just too lazy to count all 119 rikishi who were temporarily out of the kyokai between 1945 and 1956, mostly war-related. No one between 1956 and 1966 though to my knowledge. Goes to show I shouldn't rely on my memory of what I've come across in the DB. I figured the war-related absences played a role for only a couple of years after the war at most. Hmm, Futabayama was rijicho 1957-1968...surrounds the apparent changes pretty well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jaak 7 Posted October 20, 2011 What happened to the rikishi who left at Shunjuen Incident? Were any of them ever taken back? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,643 Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) What happened to the rikishi who left at Shunjuen Incident? Were any of them ever taken back? Besides the many who returned en masse one year later, there were three further returnees, all coming back after six years, presumably after the rival sumo organization set up by Tenryu collapsed: 1, 2, 3. Edited October 20, 2011 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harry 67 Posted October 20, 2011 Thanks for all the info on the returnees. Very interesting! Will have to look into it more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vikanohara 171 Posted November 13, 2011 I dont know if anyone has already asked this but-Has anyone ever been reinstated after a forced intai? Has any rikishi ever been reinstated after a voluntary intai??? Glad that you asked - it has happened a few times in the past, but only if the rikishi was still fulfilling the entry rules (like, below 23 years old). Known rikishi are Tamanofuji, Iwatora and a few more rikishi. I was surprised to find out that there is a maximum age to enter ozumo. So if some talented guy would only find out by the age of 24 he could make a great sumo wrestler, he's simply too late and could only do amasumo ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shumitto 418 Posted November 14, 2011 I was surprised to find out that there is a maximum age to enter ozumo. So if some talented guy would only find out by the age of 24 he could make a great sumo wrestler, he's simply too late and could only do amasumo ? Some college grads, e.g. Iwakiyama at 24 and Tomonohana about to turn 28, have joined. Time has passed since though and I don't know if this rule has been changed as those two situations happened a long ago. I have read a topic a while back about a college grad out of tottori who has refused aged 25, I guess, but didn't check on the occasion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doitsuyama 1,192 Posted November 14, 2011 Some college grads, e.g. Iwakiyama at 24 and Tomonohana about to turn 28, have joined. Time has passed since though and I don't know if this rule has been changed as those two situations happened a long ago. I have read a topic a while back about a college grad out of tottori who has refused aged 25, I guess, but didn't check on the occasion. These were makushita tsukedashi entrants. These are special anyway so you can't compare them to the rank and file beginner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,643 Posted November 14, 2011 Some college grads, e.g. Iwakiyama at 24 and Tomonohana about to turn 28, have joined. Time has passed since though and I don't know if this rule has been changed as those two situations happened a long ago. I have read a topic a while back about a college grad out of tottori who has refused aged 25, I guess, but didn't check on the occasion. These were makushita tsukedashi entrants. These are special anyway so you can't compare them to the rank and file beginner. In any case, my understanding is that the age limit for tsukedashi is two years higher, i.e. they need to start before their 25th birthday, not the 23rd. Tomonohana precedes even that rule; Iwakiyama and Takamifuji come to mind as (the only?) examples of rikishi who started in between their 23rd and 25th birthday. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sashohitowa 6 Posted November 14, 2011 About those cases of out-of-kyokai rikishi in the 70ties -- can they (at least some of them) be normal cases of Banzuke-gai, that was just not "coded" properly? For example this guy mentioned by Doitsuyama -- thre consecutive basho abscent, and then, just when is about to fall of the banzuke, he goes out of Kyokai. Strange. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shumitto 418 Posted November 14, 2011 About those cases of out-of-kyokai rikishi in the 70ties -- can they (at least some of them) be normal cases of Banzuke-gai, that was just not "coded" properly? For example this guy mentioned by Doitsuyama -- thre consecutive basho abscent, and then, just when is about to fall of the banzuke, he goes out of Kyokai. Strange. As far as I know, the Banzuke-gai rikishi still live in the heya and are part of the kyokai although not ranked in the banzuke. Those rikishi you are mentioning had left the kyokai altogether prior to being reinstated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doitsuyama 1,192 Posted November 14, 2011 (edited) About those cases of out-of-kyokai rikishi in the 70ties -- can they (at least some of them) be normal cases of Banzuke-gai, that was just not "coded" properly? For example this guy mentioned by Doitsuyama -- thre consecutive basho abscent, and then, just when is about to fall of the banzuke, he goes out of Kyokai. Strange. The Sumo magazines explicitly state them as "returning hatsu-dohyo" or similar. Besides, this (banzuke-gai) makes no sense for rikishi who weren't 0-0-7 in jonokuchi in the basho before their absence. Edited November 14, 2011 by Doitsuyama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
