Baruto going downhill already?

[Guest maxim]

There we have it - Baruto's third loss on day 8 against Kotomitsuki. If you look back you'll see he hasn't won any bouts against stronger fighters. All his bouts against stronger fighters have ended up in miserable defeat, like the one against Hakuho in Natsu basho.

My opinion (not to sound negative, but) Baruto has a future of mediocrity.

Edited July 16, 2006 by maxim

[Kintamayama 44,275]

There we have it - Baruto's third loss on day 8 against Kotomitsuki. If you look back you'll see he hasn't won any bouts against stronger fighters. All his bouts against stronger fighters have ended up in miserable defeat, like the one against Hakuho in Natsu basho.

My opinion (not to sound negative, but) Baruto has a future of mediocrity.

He's come up pretty quickly, so he hasn't mastered the fundamentals yet. In lower divisions, he just had to breathe in the general vicinity of his opponents to win. This won't work in upper Maegashira.

He'll be back.

Edited July 16, 2006 by Kintamayama

[Bix Poku 1]

Road to the top is never ever straight. You have to learn to rise and to fall. Baruto has reached the point where new learning curve starts. Only time tells us, how good our hero is in learning...

[Senpai 0]

I think so too that Bart starts to face stronger opponents now and the learning time has arrived. I think that even those losses give him experience he needs in the top and further quick raising would be even more worse than a little setback now. I think that's not going downhill .. I think it's more like building a strong platform to start fighting well against the strongest.

[Kurinoku 0]

I admire your optimism. I still think the "child wonder" won't be so wonderful after all.

Speaking of "child wonder", as you express it, don't you think we should rather talk of Kisenosato, who has barely turned 20, being 1y8m younger than Baruto? Or even of Hakuho, who's still 4m younger than Baruto?

Your pessimism can turn out to be true, one day, but don't you think it's still a bit premature at this point?

[Karu 0]

My opinion (not to sound negative, but) Baruto has a future of mediocrity.

Do You mean like Osh in the present days (Laughing...) ? I'm afraid no way sir :)!

[Xris 2]

...miserable defeat...

I don't know if its the influence of japanese culture but every defeat seems miserable somehow...

Don't be to quick to praise, but don't be to quick to rue down. Time will tell if Baruto has the ability to improve from his current level (because that the point. Nobody has natural qualities that makes it "easy" to go yokozuna). Then we will see how far he can go. The problem with people like Baruto is that they are so powerful that they can compensate their lack of technique with strength. Now if Baruto can learn the trade, he will become a giant. If not, an Iwakiyama is not so shameful !

[Shibouyama 1]

My opinion (not to sound negative, but) Baruto has a future of mediocrity.

Well, he went all the way to upper maegashira before hitting any learning curve or heating any walls. If that's indeed what this is. Two losses in a row doesn't exactly make a streak. Not to mention Baruto's potential to learn and improve his still rather raw sumo skills.

I'm curious what exactly you are basing your opinion on. You kind of have a 'You can say whatever you like, but I'm going to believe what I want' attitude in your later post. If you have some logical basis for your opinion then please share it with the rest of us.

I personally find your statement to be completely absurd. If you didn't seem so serious, I'd think you were joking.

Edited July 16, 2006 by Shibouyama

[Mark Buckton 1]

There we have it - Baruto's third loss on day 8 against Kotomitsuki. If you look back you'll see he hasn't won any bouts against stronger fighters. All his bouts against stronger fighters have ended up in miserable defeat, like the one against Hakuho in Natsu basho.

My opinion (not to sound negative, but) Baruto has a future of mediocrity.

何だおめー

Baruto has been in sumo 2 years - just 12 / 13 basho.

He sat one full basho out that I recall with appendix woes.

He won the first zensho juryo yusho in 40 odd years.

He is already a maegashira - at the pointy end.

His win / loss ratio is pretty darn good

He can smile at himself when he loses - did so again today watching TV.

He can only get better as he is still very inexperienced and,

he has someone called maxim writing him off already.

I wouldn't mind betting that most of the yokozuna we all refer to as greats lost less and came up slower than Baruto has done to date and while this is not a guarantee of future greatness, perhaps looking at it as a positive thing rather than a negative thing - on the back of just 2 consecutive losses would be more appropriate.

Edited July 16, 2006 by Adachinoryu

[Doitsuyama 1,173]

There we have it - Baruto's third loss on day 8 against Kotomitsuki. If you look back you'll see he hasn't won any bouts against stronger fighters. All his bouts against stronger fighters have ended up in miserable defeat, like the one against Hakuho in Natsu basho.

My opinion (not to sound negative, but) Baruto has a future of mediocrity.

You are undoubtedly quite rash, as others have pointed out already. Most rikishi hit a wall in the joi-jin, almost everyone in history in fact (even Hakuho had "only" an 8-7 in his first joi-jin basho). The question is where the development after that is leading and you just can't predict that from two consecutive losses.

Take the last case of a 15-0 zensho yusho, done by Kitanofuji in Kyushu 1963. He followed that with a 13-2 in his makuuchi debut, and was promoted to komusubi. Then? 4-11... you would undoubtedly have called his future mediocre, wouldn't you? Especially since the next basho weren't too good as well. But guess what, in Aki 1966 Kitanofuji was ozeki and in Haru 1970 yokozuna.

So maybe we should wait five or six years before reaching a verdict on Baruto, ok?

[Mark Buckton 1]

in fact - a very quick check has Taiho in his first makuuchi basho at M13 - got a kachikoshi and promotion to M4 - makekoshi (7-8) and demotion to M6 then a few good basho strung together and he really took off.

Ironic that these ranks are so very similar to Baruto's up till now and to date - day 8, a 5-3 record is better than Taiho's 2-6 at the same M4 in his second makuuchi basho.

[Yuriyama Ren 1]

He can smile at himself when he loses - did so again today watching TV.

Really? (Laughing...)

I've been wondering about his reaction to the last two losses after the Hakurozan "evil eye" incident. The webstream has just concentrated on the winners in both cases. I hope he'll continue to learn and grow. (Sign of approval)

[Mark Buckton 1]

cameras followed him down the hanamichi and into the back where he watched himself on TV - bit of a laugh and groan at himself.

[sashimaru 10]

He can smile at himself when he loses - did so again today watching TV.

Really? (Laughing...)

I've been wondering about his reaction to the last two losses after the Hakurozan "evil eye" incident. The webstream has just concentrated on the winners in both cases. I hope he'll continue to learn and grow. (Sign of approval)

Watch the tachiai:

http://www.info-sumo.net/info/modules.php?...load&cid=76

After been hit in the face by Hakurozan, I think you too would not be smiling anymore.

I surely would not.

[Yuriyama Ren 1]

Watch the tachiai:

http://www.info-sumo.net/info/modules.php?...load&cid=76

After been hit in the face by Hakurozan, I think you too would not be smiling anymore.

I surely would not.

After been hit in the face by Hakurozan I would be crying on my knees for my mommy (Laughing...)

That's beside the point. A sumotori has higher standards. The press (and maybe Kyoukai as well?) mentioned Baruto's stare as another example of deteriorating sumou etiquette after yesterday's Rohou uproar and I am sad that Baruto provided such opportunity for them. Therefore it's good to know that such a reaction was an exception.

[Kintamayama 44,275]

I'm curious what exactly you are basing your opinion on.

He's basing his opinion on being a die-hard Osh fan, and all the other foreigners who dare to steal Osh's limelight are doomed.

Again, I rest my case.

[Shibouyama 1]

Again, I rest my case.

You are obviously case-sensitive.

(Laughing...)

[mokele 3]

I have to disagree that Baruto will end up as a mediocre Makunouchi rikishi. Unless his quick rise through the lower ranks and Juryo was something of a fluke he has a very bright future. He seems far more promising than all the other rikishi that have recently joined Makunouchi. I think that he just needs to find his style when facing the joi-jin. He's very big and strong but he's slow on his feet and he prefers yotsu-zumo over oshi or tsuppari. He should work hard at quickly getting a good belt grip. His style should end up a little like that of Takanonami, another tall, big and strong rikishi without much speed who was a good ozeki for several years in the late 1990s. If he improves his tachi-ai I think he's a sure bet to make ozeki within 3 years, probably sooner.

Furthermore, Baruto seems cheerful and personable, signs of intelligence. I think that he will learn to overcome his limitations fairly soon as long as he doesn't suffer a serious injury.

[Itachi 386]

Now if Baruto can learn the trade, he will become a giant. If not, an Iwakiyama is not so shameful !

Not so shameful at all if you ask me!

[Shomishuu 0]

If Baruto is to 'end up' a mediocre rikishi, that means he regresses from where he is right now. (Foot in mouth...)

[Oimeru 0]

I fail to see why a 5-3 record in the upper maegashira ranks is akin to hitting a wall at all. Still a chance for sanyaku debut next bacho. With a 2-6 record I'd understand the talk, but the moment seems to be odd, no?

Edited July 16, 2006 by Oimeru

[Sashohitowa 6]

My opinion (not to sound negative, but) Baruto has a future of mediocrity.

Do You mean like Osh in the present days (Neener, neener...) ? I'm afraid no way sir :)!

Let's hope that Baruto will not get an injury - like Kotooshu in the present days...

[Ryukaze 0]

Waaaaaaaaay too soon to be making any kind of predictions as to this guys future..............His size and strength have indeed carried him thus far, but he will need to refine his technique to go beyond where he is now.

I seem to remember waaaay back when Asashoryu was at this stage in his career, and Kotomitsuki used to be a real tough opponent for him. As a matter of fact one of the worst loses I've ever seen him take came at the hands of Kotomitsuki (gave the Yokozuna quite a facial with a tsuppari attack that had him down and out in seconds.) Now of course this would never even come close to happening as Kotomitsuki can't lay a finger on him, so relax and be patient, Rome wasn't built in a day.

Edited July 16, 2006 by Ryukaze

[SalParadise 0]

I entirely agree with the OP. I am ashamed by Baruto's recent performance. He failed to beat the higher ranked rikishi at the end of last basho, and in the upper maegashira, he's failed to perform well enough to get anything better than a 5-3 record. That's just pathetic. I am ashamed to be sharing the same skin colour as him. What a disappointment. He'll probably only squeak out an 8-7 kachikoshi this tournament, and struggle to maintain his Maegashira 2 rank next tournament.

Embarrassing.

[Notsukutsu 0]

SalParadise, you'd better be kidding.