Gurowake

Sure, it doesn't count in terms of fastest promotion to Ozeki from entering Ozumo, which was presumably what was meant by the original question, but it's still a good comparison as hinted at by your last paragraph.

Not all heya have naming conventions, but certainly -giku would be unique. There's a problem if he wanted to move it to the front though - there's a Futagoyama-beya rikishi currently with Kiku via the same kanji at the front of his shikona, though in his case it's his real name and there's been lots of previous rikishi that used it as well, so presumably the name is somewhat common. Kotoshogiku's real name also started with Kiku as can be seen on his original shikona with Koto- prefixed, but his permanent shikona used it as a suffix that apparently was never done before (or since), so keeping it as a suffix should make it stand out.

I really hope they make an unexpected promotion of one of the Makushita candidates so we don't have to speculate for another month who the lucky nondemotee is.

Japanese accepts "nyo" as a syllable (にょ) so this isn't as implausible as it first seems. Catalan seems to use the y instead of the tilde-n, too, like the soccer club Espanyol.

You know that Canada claims to have the official mailing address of Santa Claus? They say his postal code is H0H 0H0. Unfortunately, that postal code is actually in the Montreal area I think, not in Nunavut or whatever area the northernmost part of Canada is in.

Apologies, I keep track of rikishi that are very young for their rank, and so this is the first thing on my mind when I think about them.

It certainly would be amusing/interesting if he was back to Ozeki in the shortest time possible outside of the automatic repromotion. I've often thought there should be a second automatic repromotion opportunity that stems from just continuing the pattern of the one that currently exists: KK in the basho after demotion then 12 wins in the second basho. If you then follow the pattern of that to "KK in basho after demotion, 10 wins in second basho, 14 wins in third basho" you have the recipe for a normal Ozeki promotion - maybe only 32 wins, but ending with a 14 win basho is probably enough. They could make it a newly "discovered" rule right now and not change historical precedent either, as it's never happened before: http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&n_basho=3&form1_rank=o&form2_rank=s&form2_wins=8-9&form3_wins=12-15

I suppose the fact he's only 19 missed your notice? Or is that not "incredibly impressive" in itself?

Kamito also makes sense as a potential choice as the next best 5-2. Just to cover all the bases I would have included both of those plus Kiryuko as all those rikishi cover all possible scenarios allowed by the fundamental banzuke rule, but I suppose they have the same chance as Britney Spears to be in Juryo, so I understand why she's the option instead.

You're right that no one in their 70s can use a kabu, but they can own them. There's theoretically a time limit to how long they can hold onto them before naming a successor, and they're not supposed to be bought and sold, but that's just what the rules say. How things really work is very fluid and quite often depends on transfers of money. The DB also appears to be a bit behind if Asahisho was using Furiwake until recently, so I wouldn't 100% trust everything it says.

I'm sorry if either of my previous posts sounded harsh. You're obviously new here, so I'm trying to be helpful and point you in the right direction. This forum really likes segregating discussions into specific threads.

This is about the Promotions after the Aki basho. If you want to discuss a potential promotion to Yokozuna, which will definitely not happen after Kyushu basho because it requires at least two basho at Ozeki, i suggest starting a thread in Ozumo Discussions.

The bloodbath at the top of the banzuke included the 3 Kadoban Ozeki getting MKs and being demoted. Sakura also was MK among Ozeki and will be kadoban. No previous Sekiwake got even KKs, so there are no Ozeki promotions. There were no Sekiwake promotions either, so that rank has just the 3 demoted Ozeki who need the typical 10 wins next basho for repromotion. Two Komusubi got KKs and returned to the rank, being joined by Kotononami as the best maegashira. This banzuke, with the KK line being the overall median, worked out much better than the first attempt where the KK line was the top half of Makuuchi median, as would be the case if I stuck firmly to the rules I created for doing this. There were still small troubles, but they were normal. Pandaazuma(Oe, 8.61 wins) O Chishafuwaku(O2e, 7.51 wins) Sakura(O2w, 3.81 wins) O2 Golynohana(Ow, kosho) Kajiyanosho(O4e, 6.35 wins) S Andoreasu(O3e, 5.48 wins) Konosato(O3w, 1.47 wins) S2 ScreechingOwl(K2w, 9.8 wins) K Konya ga Yamada(Ke, 7.51 wins) K2 Kotononami(M5e, 12.34 wins) Bill(M6w, 11.51 wins) M1 Bunbukuchagama(M3e, 8.49 wins) Kintamayama(Se, 5.52 wins) M2 Hakuryuho(M4w, 9.01 wins) Ketsukai(M11e, 12.1 wins) M3 Norizo(M9e, 10.95 wins) Oortael(M5w, 8.49 wins) M4 Athenayama(Kw, 5.32 wins) Frinkanohana(M10e, 9.96 wins) M5 Gaijingai(M2e, 5.95 wins) Hironoumi(M1w, 4.76 wins) M6 Ganzohnesushi(Sw, 0.67 wins) Papayasu(M12e, 9.56 wins) M7 BlackPinkMawashi(M14e, 10.52 wins) Kuroimori(M2w, 4.52 wins) M8 Oskahanada(M3w, 5.2 wins) Kōrinokoishi(M8e, 7.22 wins) M9 Kobashi(M7w, 6.94 wins) Asapedroryu(M15e, 10.6 wins) M10 Gansekiiwa(M4e, 4.76 wins) Next-ozeki-ura(M15w, 10.52 wins) M11 Terarno(J3e, 11.67 wins) Achiyama(M14w, 9.84 wins) M12 Mariohana(M12w, 7.51 wins) Flohru(M1e, 0.87 wins) M13 Itchynotoe(J1w, 10.56 wins) Balon(M10w, 7.3 wins) M14 Metzinowaka(M6e, 4.48 wins) Joaoiyama(M7e, 3.49 wins) M15 Beeftank(J3w, 9.96 wins) Choshu-yuki(M8w, 4.6 wins) M16 Zannah(M9w, 4.48 wins) Kitakachiyama(M13w, 6.55 wins) J1 Taliesin(J2e, 8.29 wins) Asashosakari(J4e, 9.09 wins) J2 TochiYESshin(J2w, 7.7 wins) Kiriazuma(J7w, 9.96 wins) J3 Oshirokita(M11w, 3.73 wins) Andonishiki(J5e, 8.49 wins) J4 Kaito(J10e, 10.95 wins) Susanoo(M13e, 3.06 wins) J5 Torafujii(J1e, 4.8 wins) WAKATAKE(J12e, 9.84 wins) J6 Hisui(J9w, 8.53 wins) Hogashi(J9e, 7.78 wins) J7 Fujisan(J10w, 8.17 wins) GONZABUROW(J4w, 4.52 wins) J8 Unagiyutaka2(J12w, 8.73 wins) Yarimotsu(J6w, 5.6 wins) J9 Ruziklao(J5w, 4.44 wins) Kamibaka(Ms2e, 9.76 wins) J10 Anjoboshi(Ms1e, 9.25 wins) Kashunowaka(J11e, kosho) J11 Netsuzakura(J11w, kosho) Kishikaisei(J8w, 4.56 wins) J12 Saruyama(J8e, 3.89 wins) Wamahada(Ms1w, 8.06 wins) J13 Unkonoyama(J6e, 1.07 wins) Kaiowaka(J14e, kosho) J14 Profomisakari(J7e, 1.67 wins) Arawaka(J14w, 7.3 wins) Ms1 Gusoyama(J13w, 5.95 wins) Edamamejin(Ms8w, 10.24 wins) Ms2 Joputosu(Ms4w, 7.86 wins) Stalnato(New, 15 wins) Ms3 CaptSmarta$$(Ms7e, 8.81 wins) Hakunojo(Ms14e, 12.26 wins) Ms4 Gaanaa(Ms6e, 8.06 wins) Akishiki(Ms4e, 6.98 wins) Ms5 Kutoyama(Ms3w, 6.03 wins) KakushoyamaII(Ms17e, 12.62 wins) Ms6 Hagamachikuni(Ms8e, 7.54 wins) Warusaru(Ms13e, 9.56 wins) Ms7 Furanohana(Ms15e, 9.96 wins) Taeghan(New, 11.31 wins) Ms8 Oyama(Ms2w, 1.07 wins) Randomaru(Ms18e, 10.75 wins) Ms9 Takanorappa(Ms9w, 6.94 wins) Veshana(Ms10e, kosho) Ms10 Doreikishi(Ms6w, 4.4 wins) Lonewolf(Ms11e, kosho) Ms11 Shatsume(Ms3e, 0 wins) Rowitoro(Ms12e, 6.83 wins) Ms12 Kyodaitimu(Ms9e, 5.28 wins) Hidenotora(J13e, kyujo) Ms13 Jejima(Ms13w, kosho) Stusan(Ms11w, 6.03 wins) Ms14 Nantonoyama(Ms5e, 0 wins) Jimizakura(New, 9.33 wins) Ms15 Wakuwaku(New, 8.93 wins) Anjinsan(Ms14w, 6.59 wins) Ms16 Suwihuto(Ms16w, kosho) Terukaze(New, 4.4 wins) Ms17 EdwardUrahara(Ms17w, kosho) Shimodahito(Ms18w, 0 wins) Ms18 Reijinguoshan(Ms5w, kyujo) Bg Tomisakae(Ms7w, kyujo) Bg Chumsinomaru(Ms10w, kyujo) Bg BariiHachiBenson(Ms12w, kyujo) Bg Sherlockiama(Ms15w, kyujo) Bg Tetsuba(Ms16e, kyujo) Bg

Results: Overall Yusho for first-time player Kachikoshi with a score of 1366. Top half of Makuuchi (through M5w this basho): Median = 1209.5; step size = 20.86666... Player Score Wins Bill 1321 12.84 Pandaazuma 1312 12.41 Athenayama 1273 10.54 Andoreasu 1246 9.25 Chishafuwaku 1243 9.11 ScreechingOwl 1228 8.39 Sakura 1222 8.1 Frinkanohana 1212 7.62 Hakuryuho 1212 7.62 Konya ga Yamada 1207 7.38 Kajiyanosho 1207 7.38 Bunbukuchagama 1205 7.28 Norizo 1177 5.94 Kintamayama 1146 4.46 Oortael 1130 3.69 Ketsukai 1079 1.25 Gaijingai 1069 0.77 Kotononami 937 0 Bottom half of Makuuchi: Median = 1180; step size = 24.8 Player Score Wins Terarno 1340 13.95 Kōrinokoishi 1307 12.62 Kobashi 1294 12.1 Joaoiyama 1255 10.52 Choshu-Yuki 1254 10.48 Oskahanada 1225 9.31 Ganzohnesushi 1204 8.47 Next-ozeki-ura 1186 7.74 Balon 1183 7.62 Itchynotoe 1177 7.38 Papayasu 1163 6.81 Kuroimori 1162 6.77 Beeftank 1160 6.69 Flohru 1102 4.35 Hironoumi 1088 3.79 Achiyama 1086 3.71 Asapedroryu 1073 3.19 Zannah 980 0 Juryo: Median = 1157; step size = 27.8666... Player Score Wins Oshirokita 1321 13.39 Torafujii 1300 12.63 Susanoo 1282 11.99 Taliesin 1279 11.88 Kitakachiyama 1231 10.16 Kamibaka 1216 9.62 Fujisan 1216 9.62 Hisui 1210 9.4 Unkonoyama 1210 9.4 Netsuzakura 1204 9.19 GONZABUROW 1201 9.08 Hogashi 1186 8.54 Asashosakari 1186 8.54 Kaito 1157 7.51 TochiYESshin 1153 7.36 Unagiyutaka2 1153 7.36 Ruziklao 1149 7.21 Profomisakari 1148 7.18 Wamahada 1143 7 WAKATAKE 1124 6.32 Anjoboshi 1124 6.32 Yarimotsu 1104 5.6 Saruyama 1102 5.53 Kaiowaka 1102 5.53 Kiriazuma 1041 3.34 Andonishiki 1041 3.34 Kishikaisei 1025 2.76 Makushita: Median = 1143.5; step size = 29.666... Player Score Wins Kachikoshi 1366 15 Gaanaa 1300 12.78 Tetsukabe 1294 12.57 Furanohana 1279 12.07 Anjinsan 1277 12 Kyodaitimu 1252 11.16 CaptSmarta$$ 1223 10.18 Shimodahito 1216 9.94 Nantonoyama 1216 9.94 KakushoyamaII 1204 9.54 Warusaru 1201 9.44 Arawaka 1182 8.8 Akishiki 1152 7.79 Doreikishi 1150 7.72 Shatsume 1137 7.28 Ippikiōkami 1134 7.18 Stusan 1133 7.15 Rowitoro 1125 6.88 Sherlockiama 1114 6.51 Joputosu 1102 6.1 Jimizakura 1098 5.97 Takanorappa 1051 4.38 Hakunojo 1039 3.98 Gusoyama 1022 3.4 EdwardUrahara 913 0 Randomaru 909 0 Jejima 849 0 Hagamachikuni 805 0

"Quits"? Not "had his loan called in"?

I somehow completely overlooked the fact that even if Shodai lost (which he did), he would have better rank/record numbers than Oho. Regardless, Wakatakakage won and is likely to get the spot based solely on the numbers, but Shodai's mostly full sanyaku schedule (missed Kirishima, but so did Wakamotoharu) plus a reasonable number of joi maegashira (though having several matches outside the joi) could be enough to bridge the gap of the one rank difference in numbers, as Wakatakakage's schedule was much weaker. Oho probably won't get it as there are rikishi who have sanyaku experience who are reasonable to put there instead of someone making their debut, but his full joi schedule (other than being a roadblock for Nishikigi) could be a deciding factor for him.

You don't think that someone making Juryo as a teenager after 11 basho in Ozumo is going to make a lasting impact as a sekitori?

I actually would prefer to put the 7-0 Ms16e there, but they seem dead set on having a line between Ms15 and Ms16 for 7-0 promotions, much like the line for normal promotions at Ms5.

My guess for Juryo: Asakoryu(11-4 J8e) J1 Kinbozan(4-11 M12w) Kagayaki(3-12 M11w) J2 Hakuoho(8-7 J5w) Shirokuma(4-9 M16e) J3 Tamashoho(6-9 J3e) Kayo(11-4 J14e) J4 Shimanoumi(6-9 J4e) Shimazuumi(6-5 J4w) J5 Tomokaze(9-6 J11e) Tohakuryu(8-7 J10e) J6 Shiden(7-8 J6w) Hidenoumi(6-9 J6e) J7 Tsurugisho(6-8 J7e) Mitoryu(6-7 J7w) J8 Hakuyozan(7-8 J8w) Daiamami(4-11 J5e) J9 Daishoho(6-9 J9e) Onosho(1-4 J1w) J10 Fujiseiun(7-8 J10w) Tochitaikai(4-3 Ms1e) J11 Aonishiki(6-1 Ms4w) Daiseizan(7-8 J12e) J12 Chiyomaru(5-2 Ms3w) Wakaikari(4-3 Ms2w) J13 Kototebakari(5-2 Ms5w) Nabatame(4-3 Ms4e) J14 Oshoumi(6-9 J14w) Asanoyama(0-0 J3w) Judging from the Onosho/Nishikifuji precedent, the last spot would be Oshoumi's. I prefer to think that's really about Isegahama having outsize influence, and Naruto is not going to have any say here, so I would prefer to put Asanoyama there. Aoiyama certainly is a possibility for the last spot if they really think they need to demote Asanoyama and Oshoumi, but given the precedent set by Nishikifuji, I don't know why they would suddenly think they "need" to demote Oshoumi. If it's about losing their last match, Aoiyama did too. Aoiyama should be more likely to be demoted by the numbers. Note that there are tons of 6-win rikishi, and basically all of them have only 1 slot demotions, and there was little else that could be done; the promotions for the few KK rikishi not going to Makuuchi are just big enough to allow those one-slot demotions and no demotion for 7-8. Onosho was slotted when there was no one left but Makushita rikishi and MKs below that spot (plus Asanoyama), and no Makushita rikishi really has a record that suggests they should be higher than whoever stays in Juryo other than whoever gets the last spot.

If there were to be discussion, it wouldn't be in this thread.

Yeah, but he lost his first Ozumo match.

if you go back and look at the intrasanyaku schedule for basho from 2014 onward for a few years, I don't think you'll be able to find anything resembling a strict predictable pattern, and the main problem was really that there were practically always do-beya restrictions at play, if not among the upper sanyaku between Kotooshu's retirement and Terunofuji's promotion, often with the lower sanyaku with there often being two of Aoiyama, Tochinoshin, and Tochiozan present, plus in Isegahama, besides Terunofuji and Harumafuji, there were Aminishiki and Takarafuji, and those are only the obvious ones to remember. There were generally 1-3 exclusions per basho, and they moved around. Since every basho the available sanyaku matches were slightly different, there wasn't a fixed plan that could be referred to - only vague ideas on what likely would happen. These days do-beya sanyaku are extremely rare, plus there's just fewer matches per day regardless, which means there are obvious patterns to be followed.

I yearn for the time where an 8-7 was an amazing score in this game. We need to have Ozumo get back up to 10 or 11 active sanyaku, and have the target with a full joi schedule, to make that happen.

There should definitely be spots open in Juryo from Takakeisho, Chiyosakae, and Myogiryu ceasing to be sekitori, and likely additional spots from Kiryuko, Oshoma, and Aoiyama if they lose their exchange bouts, along with a big question about Asanoyama. Earning KKs definitely worthy of promotion so far are Chiyomaru and Aonishiki. Nabatame and Kototebakari also have KKs, but neither really needs to be promoted. Tochitaikai and Wakaikari fight for KKs in Juryo, and definitely open up spots for themselves against their opponents, and it's reasonable to think that Kototebakari will also be promoted at the expense of his Juryo opponent if he wins. This leaves Nabatame to take the 3rd definite open spot and thus the best record that might end up forcing down Asanoyama would be either 4-3 Ms5 Kototebakari, 5-2 Ms6 Kaisho, 6-1 Ms9 Kamito, or 7-0 Ms16e Hatsuyama. Only the first of those is really in the range of outcomes we tend to see, and it would mean giving a debut promotion to a minimally KK rikishi who is last in the promotion zone and lost his exchange bout. Is that really going to happen? I suppose many of you might look at the numbers and say Asanoyama has less of a chance at survival than the rikishi who would lose the exchange bouts, but when it comes to terrible records, rarely do the numbers provide the whole story. That's my take at least. I was wrong about Makuuchi demotions last basho, so maybe I'm off the mark here as well.

We should have Takakeisho, Kagayaki, Kitanowaka, and Shirokuma leaving Makuuchi for sure, though given last tournament it's probably better to consider Kitanowaka to still be on the bubble. On the bubble in Makuuchi we have Kinbozan (technically already demotable), Bushozan, Nishikifuji, and Onoktasu. Given that there are only 4 Juryo rikishi that can possibly reach promotable records, all of those bubble rikishi should already be safe. Chiyoshoma and Tokihayate will return to Makuuchi, with Shishi and Takerufuji having promotable records if they win their last match which should be good enough to force down the first four rikishi listed. The only other Juryo rikishi with a modicum of a chance of promotion is Asakoryu who definitely needs a win, which would put him in better position than a losing Takerufuji and Shishi, so he should get the nod in that specific situation where he ends up third in line. If Kitanowaka loses, that should open up another spot for whoever is fourth in line, regardless of whether they have a promotable record. If Kitanowaka wins and Kinbozan loses, then Kinbozan will be ahead of the former for demotion, but still might be saved if there aren't 4 promotable Juryo records. While a Kinbozan loss does give Shishi a promotable record, that's only #3, and Kinbozan would only be 4th in line for demotion, so might be saved if Takerufuji doesn't win.