Asashosakari 19,451 Posted November 26, 2006 (edited) Might as well get this going... Another odd banzuke, albeit for completely different reasons...this time the holes are at the bottom. After M12 I'm running out of rikishi - everybody who's still unassigned in Makuuchi should go much, much lower (preferably into Juryo), and Juryo holds no further credible promotion candidates. Hmm. Asashoryu (Ye, 15-0Y) Y --- Kotooshu (O1w, 10-5) O1 Tochiazuma (O2e, 10-5) Kaio (O2w, 10-5) O2 Chiyotaikai (O1e, 9-6) --- O3 Hakuho (O2w, 0-0-15) Kotomitsuki (Sw, 9-6) S Miyabiyama (Se, 8-7) Kisenosato (K1e, 8-7) K1 Roho (K2w, 8-7) Kotoshogiku (M2e, 10-5) K2 Dejima (M3w, 10-5) Tokitenku (M3e, 9-6) M1 Kyokutenho (M6e, 10-5) Baruto (M6w, 10-5) M2 Aminishiki (K2e, 6-9) Homasho (M11e, 12-3) M3 Ama (M1e, 6-9) Takamisakari (M9e, 10-5) M4 Asasekiryu (M9w, 10-5) Kasugao (M7w, 8-7) M5 Kakuryu (M8w, 8-7) Tochinonada (M5w, 7-8) M6 Kokkai (K1w, 3-12) Takekaze (M4e, 6-9) M7 Kakizoe (M4w, 6-9) Futeno (M2w, 5-10) M8 Toyonoshima (M10w, 8-7) Jumonji (J2w, 13-2Y) M9 Tamakasuga (M14e, 9-6) Tochinohana (M13w, 8-7) M10 Iwakiyama (M1w, 2-13) Tokitsuumi (J4e, 10-5) M11 Kasuganishiki (J2e, 9-6) Yoshikaze (J1e, 8-7) M12 Toyozakura (M8e, 5-10) . . . I suppose promoting Dejima to Komusubi isn't really necessary, but a) I think he deserves it, b) the top of the banzuke works quite nicely this way, and c) even using only 3 Komusubi doesn't help much at the bottom... Anyway, I'm at a loss how to continue from here on. Like this? Tamanoshima (M7e, 2-9-4) M13 Hokutoriki (M5e, 0-9-6) Tochiozan (J7w, 9-6) M14 Satoyama (J5w, 8-6-1) Hakurozan (M14w, 7-8) M15 Otsukasa (M15e, 7-8) Pretty ugly with those promotions from the depths of Juryo, and Tamanoshima and Hokutoriki (especially the latter) would be getting off way too lightly, too... Maybe this... Tochiozan (J7w, 9-6) M13 Satoyama (J5w, 8-6-1) Tamanoshima (M7e, 2-9-4) M14 Hakurozan (M14w, 7-8) Otsukasa (M15e, 7-8) M15 Asofuji (M13e, 6-9) Or some other permutation of Hakurozan/Otsukasa/Asofuji in the bottom three slots. Comments and eviscerations welcome. (Neener, neener...) Edited November 30, 2006 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Odoriou 0 Posted November 26, 2006 (edited) Here we go: (Neener, neener...) Y e Asashoryu (Y e, 15-0) .O 1 e Kotooshu (O 1 w, 10-5) .O 1 w Tochiazuma (O 2 e, 10-5) .O 2 e Kaio (O 3 w, 10-5) .O 2 w Chiyotaikai (O 1 e, 9-6) .O 3 w Hakuho (O 2 w, 0-15) S e Kotomitsuki (S w, 9-6) S w Miyabiyama (S e, 8-7) K e Kisenosato (K 1 e, 8-7) K w Roho (K 2 w, 8-7) M 01 e Kotoshogiku (M 02 e, 10-5) M 01 w Dejima (M 03 w, 10-5) M 02 e Tokitenku (M 03 e, 9-6) M 02 w Kyokutenho (M 06 e, 10-5) M 03 e Baruto (M 06 w, 10-5) M 03 w Aminishiki (K 2 e, 6-9) M 04 e Ama (M 01 e, 6-9) M 04 w Homasho (M 11 e, 12-3) M 05 e Takamisakari (M 09 e, 10-5) M 05 w Asasekiryu (M 09 w, 10-5) M 06 e Tochinonada (M 05 w, 7-8) M 06 w Kasugao (M 07 w, 8-7) M 07 e Kakuryu (M 08 w, 8-7) M 07 w Takekaze (M 04 e, 6-9) M 08 e Kakizoe (M 04 w, 6-9) M 08 w Futeno (M 02 w, 5-10) M 09 e Kokkai (K 1 w, 3-12) M 09 w Toyonoshima (M 10 w, 8-7) M 10 e Jumonji (J 02 w, 13-2) M 10 w Iwakiyama (M 01 w, 2-13) M 11 e Tamakasuga (M 14 e, 9-6) M 11 w Toyozakura (M 08 e, 5-10) M 12 e Tochinohana (M 13 w, 8-7) M 12 w Tokitsuumi (J 04 e, 10-5) M 13 e Yoshikaze (J 01 e, 8-7) M 13 w Kasuganishiki (J 03 e, 9-6) M 14 e Tamanoshima (M 07 e, 2-13) M 14 w Asofuji (M 13 e, 6-9) M 15 e Hakurozan (M 14 w, 7-8) M 15 w Otsukasa (M 15 e, 7-8) M 16 e Ushiomaru (M 12 e, 5-10) M 16 w Tosanoumi (M 12 w, 5-10) J 01 e Hokutoriki (M 05 e, 0-15) J 01 w Kitazakura (M 11 w, 4-11) J 02 e Katayama (M 15 w, 6-9) J 02 w Satoyama (J 05 w, 8-7) J 03 e Shimotori (J 01 w, 6-9) J 03 w Tochiozan (J 07 w, 9-6) J 04 e Hochiyama (J 03 w, 7-8) J 04 w Wakanosato (J 11 e, 10-5) J 05 e Tamarikido (J 04 w, 7-8) J 05 w Ryuho (J 05 e, 7-8) J 06 e Takanowaka (J 02 e, 5-10) J 06 w Ryuo (J 06 w, 7-8) J 07 e Tochisakae (J 07 e, 7-8) J 07 w Kaiho (J 09 w, 8-7) J 08 e Oga (J 06 e, 6-9) J 08 w Wakatoba (J 08 e, 7-8) J 09 e Masatsukasa (J 10 e, 8-7) J 09 w Shunketsu (J 10 w, 8-7) J 10 e Kyokunankai (J 12 w, 9-6) J 10 w Sumanofuji (J 13 e, 9-6) J 11 e Goeido (J 11 w, 8-7) J 11 w Hakuba (Ms 2 e, 7-0) J 12 e Kobo (J 09 e, 6-9) J 12 w Daimanazuru (J 08 w, 4-11) J 13 e Wakanoho (Ms 1 e, 4-3) J 13 w Bushuyama (Ms 4 w, 5-2) J 14 e Shiraishi (Ms 4 e, 4-3) J 14 w Tamaasuka (J 14 w, 7-8) A nice occurrence for Banzuke Topics: This will be the first time ever for Kotooshu to be Ozeki east, after he has been an Ozeki (west) for 6 tournaments. Edited November 26, 2006 by Odoriou Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mokele 3 Posted November 26, 2006 Anyway, I'm at a loss how to continue from here on. Like this? Tamanoshima (M7e, 2-9-4) M13 Hokutoriki (M5e, 0-9-6) Tochiozan (J7w, 9-6) M14 Satoyama (J5w, 8-6-1) Hakurozan (M14w, 7-8) M15 Otsukasa (M15e, 7-8) Pretty ugly with those promotions from the depths of Juryo, and Tamanoshima and Hokutoriki (especially the latter) would be getting off way too lightly, too... Maybe this... Tochiozan (J7w, 9-6) M13 Satoyama (J5w, 8-6-1) Tamanoshima (M7e, 2-9-4) M14 Hakurozan (M14w, 7-8) Otsukasa (M15e, 7-8) M15 Asofuji (M13e, 6-9) Or some other permutation of Hakurozan/Otsukasa/Asofuji in the bottom three slots. Comments and eviscerations welcome. (Neener, neener...) I'm in almost complete agreement with the top of your 2007 Hatsu basho banzuke. At the bottom, I don't have any problem with demoting Hokutoriki all the way down to Juryo. I've seen guys dropped down to Juryo with 0-15 (or equivalent) records from higher maegashira ranks than mae-5. Similarly, Tamanoshima's 2-9 record at M7 is bad enough to send him down to Juryo under ordinary circumstances. Hakurozan, Otsukasa and Asofuji should stay in Makunouchi. I would also hold my nose and keep Tosanoumi in the top division too, but his 5-10 result is bad enough that he might be tempted to retire unless he can find a way to blame it on an injury. Tochiozan and Asofuji should each be promoted to Makunouchi. They deserve equal consideration, and it would be unfair to promote 1 without the other. The only other guy who deserves consideration for promotion from Juryo is Wakanosato, but coming all the way from Juryo-11 with a 10-5 record is simply not appropriate. So the only really tough choice for me is whether to demote Tamanoshima to Juryo. My preference is to keep him in makunouchi but that might mean that tochiozan or Asofuji will have to go Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonosuke 28 Posted November 26, 2006 From Jiji Press: East yokozuna Asashoryu East ozek Kotooshu West ozeki Tochiazuma East ozeki Kaio West ozeki Chiyotaikai West ozeki Hakuho East sekiwake Miyabiyama West sekiwake Kotomitsuki East komusubi Kisenosato West komusubi Roho East komusubi Kotoshogiku East M1 Dejima West M1 Tokitenku East M2 Kyokutenho West M2 Baruto East M3 Homasho West M3 Aminishiki East M4 Takamisakari West M4 Asasekiryu East M5 Ama West M5 Kasugao Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iwokayama 0 Posted November 27, 2006 Sadogatake with 3 rikishis in sanyaku. May be this will be some record in sumo history. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shimpu 0 Posted November 27, 2006 Don't forget about Musashigawa's achievement - 3 Ozeki (Musoyama, Dejima, Miyabiyama) and Yokozuna (Musashimaru) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iwokayama 0 Posted November 27, 2006 Yes, Kotonowaka must find another new rikishi capable to get to sanyaku. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 5,987 Posted November 27, 2006 Three Komusubi, interesting...but then again, we all know how many grains of salt to take with Jiji's forecasts. Seems to be a valid option for GTB though, because you'll be only half a rank off with a wrong guess instead of a full rank with 2/4 Komusubi. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doitsuyama 1,190 Posted November 27, 2006 Don't forget about Musashigawa's achievement - 3 Ozeki (Musoyama, Dejima, Miyabiyama) and Yokozuna (Musashimaru) Not to forget Wakanoyama's single basho as komusubi when there were 5 sanyaku together with the quoted. But let us not forget, having 3 sanyaku from the same stable is by no means a record. Futagoyama had 5 sanyaku rather frequently with Takanohana, Wakanohana, Takanonami, Akinoshima and Takatoriki or Naminohana. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aderechelsea 125 Posted November 27, 2006 Akebono remembers for sure ... (A yokozuna...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,451 Posted November 27, 2006 Three Komusubi, interesting...but then again, we all know how many grains of salt to take with Jiji's forecasts.Seems to be a valid option for GTB though, because you'll be only half a rank off with a wrong guess instead of a full rank with 2/4 Komusubi. You're still screwed if your guess is otherwise in the correct order though, since it means you're only getting 1 of 4 possible points for each two adjacent rikishi. Hmm, perhaps the mods could merge my earlier banzuke thread into this one? Seems the Jiji guess is gonna generate more interest than mine did. (A yokozuna...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oimeru 0 Posted November 27, 2006 (edited) Hm, I agree with that banzuke. However, there is quite a bit of turmoil in the lower makuuchi ranks. I have Tamanoshima drop only to M13, which does not feel right at all, but there are just too many rikishi with bad records down there. With only two komusubi, this would be less bad. Edit: oops, there was a merge! I agree with the Jiji press banzuke, I meant! Edited November 28, 2006 by Oimeru Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonosuke 28 Posted November 27, 2006 ...perhaps the mods could merge my earlier banzuke thread into this one? My apology. I did not see your original thread initially. Now the topics have been merged. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asojima 2,874 Posted November 27, 2006 Three Komusubi, interesting...but then again, we all know how many grains of salt to take with Jiji's forecasts.Seems to be a valid option for GTB though, because you'll be only half a rank off with a wrong guess instead of a full rank with 2/4 Komusubi. Hope there are more than a few grains there. I only used three Komusubi for my GTB guess too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Takamueda 0 Posted November 27, 2006 I have only 4 Promotions from Juryo (Jumonji, Tokitsuumi, Kasuganishiki, Yoshikaze). I don't see Satoyama or even Tochiozan coming up. This means, that Tamanoshima & Hokutoriki have to stay in my banzuke. I tried a 3-Komusubi-Version and it worked well until M12. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oimeru 0 Posted November 28, 2006 This is my bottom-of-makuuchi banzuke right now: M12E J4E +15 10 Tokitsuumi M12W J1E +8 8 Yoshikaze M13E J3E +11 9 Kasuganishiki M13W M7E -13 2 Tamanoshima M14E M13E -2 6 Asofuji M14W M12E -5 5 Ushiomaru M15E M12W -5 5 Tosanoumi M15W M14W -2 7 Hakurozan M16E M15E -2 7 Otsukasa I am not very happy with this, but it's either keeping Ushiomaru and Tosanoumi or promoting Satoyama and Tochiozan. I can't bring myself to do that... Furthermore, pushing Ushiomaru and Tosanoumi would mean that Hakurozan and Otsukasa kept their ranks despite make koshi. So they have some major banzuke luck here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,451 Posted November 29, 2006 Well, here's another attempt of mine, picking up from my earlier guess with a revised M11/12... Toyozakura (M8e, 5-10) M11 Tokitsuumi (J4e, 10-5) Kasuganishiki (J2e, 9-6) M12 Yoshikaze (J1e, 8-7) Tamanoshima (M7e, 2-9-4) M13 Hokutoriki (M5e, 0-9-6) Asofuji (M13e, 6-9) M14 Hakurozan (M14w, 7-8) Otsukasa (M15e, 7-8) M15 Ushiomaru (M12e, 5-10) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asojima 2,874 Posted November 30, 2006 I'm not being as nice to Jumonji. Also assuming 3 Komusubi. 11E Jumonji JW2 (13-2) 11W Toyozakura ME8 (5-10) 12E Tamanoshima ME7 (2-9-4) 12W Kasuganishiki JE3 (9-6) 13E Yoshikaze JE1 (8-7) 13W Tokitsuumi JE4 (10-5) 14E Ushiomaru ME12 (5-10) 14W Tosanoumi MW12 (5-10) 15E Asofuji ME13 (6-9) 15W Hokutoriki ME5 (0-9-6) 16E Hakurozan MW14 (7-8) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
charliki 16 Posted November 30, 2006 (edited) From Jiji Press:East yokozuna Asashoryu East ozek Kotooshu West ozeki Tochiazuma East ozeki Kaio West ozeki Chiyotaikai West ozeki Hakuho East sekiwake Miyabiyama West sekiwake Kotomitsuki East komusubi Kisenosato West komusubi Roho East komusubi Kotoshogiku East M1 Dejima West M1 Tokitenku East M2 Kyokutenho I would prefer that : YE: Asashoryu YE(15-0) O1E: Kotoshoo OW (10-5) O1W: Tochiazuma OE2(10-5) O2E: Kaio OW3 (10-5) O2W: Chiyotaikai OE (9-6) O3E: None O3W: Hakuho OW2 (0-0-15) S1E: Kotomitsuki SW (9-6) S1W: Miyabiyama SE (8-7) S2E: Kisenosato KE (8-7) S2W: None K1E: Roho KW2 (8-7) K1W: Kotoshogiku ME2 (10-5) K2E: None K2W : Dejima M3W (10-5) ... Edited November 30, 2006 by charliki Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 5,987 Posted November 30, 2006 I would prefer that :S2E: Kisenosato KE (8-7) I guess Kisenosato would prefer that, too, but I can't see it happen. Doesn't matter how many 8-7 in a row you get at Komusubi when there are still two Sekiwake refusing to budge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
