Language.

[Fujisan 533]

I just wondered how easy or hard it is for those from non English speaking countries to read the messages here?

I could never picture myself being able to read another language as well as you all seem to,so I just wondered-And have you all been able to speak English since school?

Oh and I've got the Who/whom thing figured-

When its at the start of a sentance "Who is it,who did that" its who-

When its later in the sentance "In whom we trust,to whom it may concern,"Its whom.

[QttP 0]

I've been reading, writing and speaking English from early childhood. I started learning in the 3rd grade, and was always one of the best in class. As time went on, my English skills got better and better, and at this point I can pretty much read anything freely (except complicated scientific or very specific language). I think I can also express myself quite well - even though there are grammatical mistakes here and there, I believe everyone here (and on other message boards) understands me.

With English being so widely used, it's not that hard to learn it. You read English, hear English, breathe English - eventually it gets stuck in your head. Of course it helps that in Israel, English is taught from the early grades (3rd or 4th), all the way to high school graduation, and even in colleges/unis, to those who need it. There are probably more English teachers (like my mom) here than Math teachers (like my dad).

When it comes to computers - English is my first language: I type way faster in English than in Hebrew and Russian. And I never learned to type fast, I just typed so much in the past 7 years or so, that it became natural.

[Kotoseiya Yuichi 3]

In Finland children start their first foreign language in the third grade at the age of nine. For about 90+ % (I think) that language is English. Therefore most Finns (myself included) born in Sixties or later have studied English for at least seven (or ten) school years. Many Finns read and even write and speak quite passable English but surprisingly large proportion has practically forgotten all but the most basic English. This continues to amaze me as we're constantly immersed by (American) English.

More than half of what I read daily is in English so I'm personally quite comfortable with it even though I discern almost daily that I'm far away of calling myself truly fluent in English. I have a bad conscience about languages I've studied but left later to wither, viz. German, Russian & French. Of course Japanese would be especially nice to learn to but those kanji are scary. (Getting punched...) (Hypnotic...) (Clapping wildly...) (In a state of confusion...)

[Onnagumo 4]

I just wondered how easy or hard it is for those from non English speaking countries to read the messages here?

In Holland, children now start to learn English in elementary school, too. I learned English in high school, as well as German and French (and Latin). I'm not really good anymore at speaking German and my ability to speak French is reduced to almost none by now (In a state of confusion...) , but in English I think I can still express myself fairly well. At least, I was never misunderstood here (Being unsure...)

It sure helps that I practice English almost daily; I have to, if I want sumo information (Laughing...) . I am learning a lot from this forum (thank you all, guys!)

I also like to play Dungeons & Dragons, and all the gaming materials, like rulebooks, are written in English. I think I read books more often in English than in Dutch.

Reading the messages on this forum is no problem at all.

This brings me to another question, Fujisan. You are English, if I understand correctly? It seems to me that for English native speakers, the necessity to learn foreign languages is smaller than it is for Dutch, or Finnish, or Hungarian native speakers. Is this true or do I sound terribly stupid now? (Clapping wildly...) Do you learn foreign languages in school?

[Zenjimoto 40]

I started English in 3rd grade, went to England for the first time at age 9, spent 4 weeks in England alone at age 11, went to Scotland for 3 weeks at age 13, spent one year in the USA beginning at age 15 and have been living in the States since 1991... so I find that by now, my English is actually quite better than my native Austrian... (Clapping wildly...) I am a better writer in English and a 692% better public speaker in English. (In a state of confusion...)

Cheers

Zenjimoto, the Expatriate

[Manekineko 200]

I've started english in 4th grade primary, but really learned it thanks to comic-books (thy to ym big bro), then books and internet. Never been on an intensive language course, but did read compleat works of Shakespeare in english while under 20 - crazy me wanted to know how Henry 6th ends and couldn't just stop there. (Clapping wildly...)

Now I'm almost better in english than in croatian - spooky and don't like it one bit, so am thinking of intensive croatian course. (In a state of confusion...)

[Yoavoshimaru 0]

I started learning English in 3rd grade in Israel, like QttP-zeki. Then I moved to the USA several years later and have been here since, so...

It's hard to avoid English. I find that when I go back to Israel (usually twice/year), with every visit I hear more English. It's in little phrases here and there, in TV ads, news, etc. People use slang (presumably from movies or MTV) all the time on the street, interjecting it between sentences in Hebrew.

I think possibly the funniest happenings in this area are in France, with the official French language agency (the name escapes me at the moment) ruling last month that "e-mail" is not to be used, because it's not pure. Instead they recommend you use "couriel" which is short for "courier electronique". (In a state of confusion...) The article also mentioned most french people completely ignore this agency and continue to refer to money as "le cash" (Clapping wildly...)

[Zenjimoto 40]

I started learning English in 3rd grade in Israel, like QttP-zeki. Then I moved to the USA several years later and have been here since, so...

Hmmm! I am thinking Moti should recruit you two for the fledgling Israeli National Sumo Gaming Team!! ;-) Kintamayama, Tominishiki, Yoavoshimaru, QttP... not a bad line-up! (Grouphug)

Cheers!

Zenjimoto

[Mmikasazuma 12]

In Hungary it was not that easy to learn English before 1989. Every children had to learn Russian in school from the age of 10. In highschool (from 14) most of us had the opportunity to study other European languages, but in spite of its popularity they kept English-learning under certain percentage. :-P

I studied French, and later some English, too. My good chance to learn English came when my husband (a chemist) got a fellowship to the USA in 1986. We have lived in Oregon for 2 years. I read and understand English well, but since then I didn't have mucch opportunity to practice speaking (and writing), so I make mistakes. :-S (Annoyed...)

Writing to a forum like this is a good opportunity to practice :-) ;-)

[Kintamayama 45,116]

Hmmm! I am thinking Moti should recruit you two for the fledgling Israeli National Sumo Gaming Team!! ;-) Kintamayama, Tominishiki, Yoavoshimaru, QttP... not a bad line-up! (Grouphug)

Cheers!

Zenjimoto

I second that motion!! We would exterminate all oppositon, if joined by these formidable forces!!

[Yoavoshimaru 0]

It would be a great honor to fight alongside the yokozuna Kintamayama-zeki....

I'm already in Massashigawa-beya however, very proud to be there, with other esteemed cyber-rikishi (Gaijingai, Getayukata, Takanorappa, Akebolio, hmm I know I'm forgetting another name or too...)

[Zenjimoto 40]

It would be a great honor to fight alongside the yokozuna Kintamayama-zeki....

I'm already in Massashigawa-beya however, very proud to be there, with other esteemed cyber-rikishi (Gaijingai, Getayukata, Takanorappa, Akebolio, hmm I know I'm forgetting another name or too...)

That in itself doesn't matter. I am in Hinata-beya, Florida, and still compete for Austria. Kyokutenho is in Oshima-beya, Japan, but still a Mongolian (although I hear he applied for Japanese passport). So don't let that stop you! (Annoyed...) Your very own deshi Getayukata herself is competing for the U.K.!

Kintamayama a Yokozuna? Tell me more!! ;-)

Cheers

Zenjimoto

Edited July 29, 2003 by Zenjimoto

[QttP 0]

Kintamayama a Yokozuna? Tell me more!! (Applauding...)

Ahem...

*points to own custom title*

Now who's the dean? (Neener, neener...)

But, actually, there's an amusing and totally unrelated story. On our faculty we have this teacher called Eyal Shifroni. He teaches Data Structures in C, Principles Of Computer Languages, Java Programming and some other stuff. A nice guy, a bit weird, does yoga, stuff like that.

Anyway, this friend of mine claims that I have reached the title of Yokozuna in Shifroni's written exams. Those exams are considered (from some reason unknown to me) hard by most people. Now, for the past two years, I have been taking one exam of Shifroni on the 7th of July (7.7.2002 and then 7.7.2003) and have been getting straight 100 every time.

Like I said, totally unrelated, but the thing with the dates really amused me.

[Kotoseiya Yuichi 3]

*points to own custom title*

Rijicho told me he keeps under observation these custom titles... Not everything is accepted. E. Yokozuna borders on the boundary... (Being mellow...)

Edited July 29, 2003 by Kotoseiya Yuichi

[Fujisan 533]

Well you've all got my respect not just for your grasp of my language but because most of you seem to use better grammer than I do and I know very little of any language except my own.

As for Beyas I wanted to start a Grimsby one with Jomojo,Jeijima and Kamejima-Who originally lived in my home town but was eventually talked into joining the North pole ichimon instead with those three Chijanofuji(Who provided my new avatar) and Boltono among others-A great team.

[Zenjimoto 40]

Well you've all got my respect not just for your grasp of my language but because most of you seem to use better grammer than I do and I know very little of any language except my own.

As for Beyas I wanted to start a Grimsby one with Jomojo,Jeijima and Kamejima-Who originally lived in my home town but was eventually talked into joining the North pole ichimon instead with those three Chijanofuji(Who provided my new avatar) and Boltono among others-A great team.

The North Pole Ichimon consists of several Heya (including Losser and VDH, amongst others), so I guess a Grimsby-beya could also well be part of that... (Neener, neener...)

Cheers

Zenjimoto

[Dejimasama 0]

It seems to me that for English native speakers, the necessity to learn foreign languages is smaller than it is for Dutch, or Finnish, or Hungarian native speakers. Is this true or do I sound terribly stupid now?  (Neener, neener...)  Do you learn foreign languages in school?

You are correct. They do require you to take 1 year of a foreign language in high school here but thats reallly only enough time to learn stuff like hola=hello and gato=cat. The need just isnt there for Americans to know other languages. When Kennedy was president one of the members of his staff told him that in order for the US to remain a super power it most keep its current status of 3% of the world population (USA) controlling over 75% of the worlds wealth. When you do this(and from the last figures I saw it is still like that) the rest of the world tends to learn how to talk to you. I am not saying this is a good thing nor that I support it, fact is I really dont know how I feel about it. I hope this helps answer your question and at the same time didnt make me sound like a bad person.

Edited July 30, 2003 by Dejimasama

[Dejimasama 0]

*points to own custom title*

Rijicho told me he keeps under observation these custom titles... Not everything is accepted. E. Yokozuna borders on the boundary... (Being mellow...)

Hehehehe let him keep it, I like his his boldness.

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

*points to own custom title*

Rijicho told me he keeps under observation these custom titles... Not everything is accepted. E. Yokozuna borders on the boundary... (Being mellow...)

What would NOT be permissible as custom title? (Neener, neener...)

[Onnagumo 4]

I hope this helps answer your question and at the same time didnt make me sound like a bad person.

Yes, Dejimasama, this answers my question, and no, you don't sound like a bad person, at least not to me (Neener, neener...) . Thank you for answering!

[Kaikitsune Makoto 209]

English is an apron. In Finnish I live, think and interact. In English I do that too but much less and from behind an apron. It is easy to talk in English because it doesn't matter if I use fancy words or structures regardless of the situation when I speak English. It is always just a "second language". Whereas I enjoy writing in Finnish a lot, I enjoy writing in English even more. In Finnish I can express (or at least try to) "whatever" (especially since Finnish has very cool grammar and boundless amount of ways to play with words/sentences in Finnish) but in English I can explore more to formerly unknown areas. It is rewarding to use a new word for the first time in fitting context, to feel satisfaction over a neatly constructed sentence which sums up the message well in compact but sensitive format! I love pseudo-words in Finnish. I am strange in finding simple joy of out coming up with new words that I haven't heard before. N

[Kashunowaka 300]

*points to own custom title*

Rijicho told me he keeps under observation these custom titles... Not everything is accepted. E. Yokozuna borders on the boundary... (Being mellow...)

What would NOT be permissible as custom title? (Neener, neener...)

Rijicho (Applauding...)

[Kashunowaka 300]

Grammar I don't particularly like.

I love grammar. (Heart)

[Yoavoshimaru 0]

English is an apron

Interesting analogy, and a well-written post, Kaikitsune-zeki (Neener, neener...)

[Doitsuyama 1,185]

I am strange in finding simple joy of out coming up with new words that I haven't heard before. N