Asa in hot water again?

[paolo 0]

.....

The funeral will be held on August 21, when the heya's rikishi return from the Jyungyo tour. Meanwhile Isenoumi oyakata said they would welcome Asashoryu to attend the funeral. "It will be great if he could come out. It should be good for him to come outside. I am sure the old oyakata would be pleased to have him come to the funeral," Isenoumi oyakata said.

The old Sadogatake oyakata used to praise Asashoryu for coming to his heya to do training sessions. "It's great to have a yokozuna who will come out all this way to do training sessions with us. I really appreciate and am pleased to see him visiting our heya," the oyakata commented.

I apologize for inserting a word about this in a moment that must be very sad for many people ( I took the above sentence from another topic ).

If only Asashoryu could and would, how positive it would be for a start !

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

Another view from America...

http://www.nbcsports.com/portal/site/nbcsp...nextfmt=default

[Jonosuke 28]

If only Asashoryu could and would, how positive it would be for a start !

I don't know how this is possible but my understanding is that Asashoryu was not told of Kotozakura's passing yet.

I also think the family of the old Sadogatake may not want all media types following Asashoryu to descend upon their solemn ceremony.

It is really unfortunate as if there was one consistent loyal supporter of Asashoryu within the Kyokai, it was former yokozuna Kotozakura. He always talked positive about Asashoryu.

But then it was in his nature to see the goodness in people and to only feel empathy towards their failures. Outwardly he appeared to be tough on his recruits because he only saw their potentials only if they tried harder.

[Shomishuu 0]

In a regular press conference held on August 15, Bunmei Ibuki, minister of Science and Education whose jusdiction the Sumo Kyokai falls under told reporters that the Kyokai would not be able to resolve the current problems by simply painting Asashoryu as "a heel" and keep criticizing him. He asked the Kyokai to adjust the curernt approach to find a way out of the impasse.

"More than Asashoryu's conduct and manners as a yokozuna, what is being asked here is, how the Kyokai got itself to the present predicament by allowing such conduct and manners," Ibuki pointed out. "I believe the Kyokai should be playing more visible role in instructing their rikishi."

"As a for public interest, educational foundation qualifying for non-commercial purpose status, the Kyokai has certain obligations. Their most important duty is to ensure to teach its highest ranking active yokozuna the deep understanding of Japanese culture and the weight of responsibility as the highest rank rikishi," Ibuki said, stressing more need of educating the role of yokozuna to the foreign born rikishi.

In reading between the lines here about what Ibuki-san said, and also incorporating Madosumaru's view that the minister wants this 'off the front pages,' is it possible that the groundwork is being laid for pressuring Takasago Oyakata to submit intai papers for the yokozuna, if Asashoryu doesn't come out of his funk very soon?

[Kintamayama 45,530]

40 people demonstrated in front of the Japanese embassy in Mongolia today against the harshness of Asa's punishment, and warned the NSK against violating human rights. "You have to keep in mind the feelings of the fans as well", they said. The press in Mongolia has begun taking this view as well for the last two days.

Edited August 16, 2007 by Kintamayama

[ilovesumo 12]

It's getting more and more......... :-S (Blinking...)

More pressure-this time from the other side...not good. Reaction must be eye-roling in japan. Nobody want's to loose face, but it seemes that all parties do- the longer the situation lasts.

Fact is that he has to go to the funeral. Remember, he did not in an other case, an other funeral years ago-> that was a big faux pas in those days. More and more I get the feeling that the funeral will be the decision...

He liked that man so I think and HOPE he will.

The whole story can't be....really..........can somebody wake me up, please? (I am going off-topic...)

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj 0]

40 people demonstrated in front of the Japanese embassy in Mongolia today against the harshness of Asa's punishment, and warned the NSK against violating human rights. "You have to keep in mind the feelings of the fans as well", they said. The press in Mongolia has begun taking this view as well for the last two days.

I haven't heard that demonstration yet.

:) What took them wait so long . :) There are some local student unions, one civil non-governmental organisation expressed their opinion.

As I read, Asa's family is very quite.

Public opinion is indifferent.

If Asa continue sumo, people expect to see him kicking some more faatballs.

If he quits sumo, that is also fine, no big deal. He'll be back in homeland where he always wanted to go, personally he'll enjoy freedom life, some more kids (I am going off-topic...) , he should quit sumo and study some profession in Japan. His brother Sumaya came to Japan and advised Asa to study English in this NSK approved free time and went back, (Blinking...) . Everything has good side

Actually no one lose

Edited August 17, 2007 by Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj

[slt 9]

I don't know you or your situation, but it may be useful for you to read, study, and find out more about Japan in general, and the "Japanese way". It may be helpful in comprehending sumo, and this situation, more clearly.

Unlike many of our more knowledgeable members (or moderators), I'm quite reluctant to justify everything that happens in sumo as a regular, perfectly normal event in terms of the "Japanese way", or obviously inherent to the spirit of Sumo. It seems like any decision by the Kyokai would've been approved by the bulk of the posters in this forum, on the basis that that is how decisions are made in Japan, and in sumo. The basic principle I don't want to dispute, and no-one is saying that there should be a more "democratic" process involved in decision-making. This doesn't mean, however, that the NSK (or whoever the precise decision-making body is) can't make mistakes. It seems to have put itself in a very awkward situation, in my opinion because of the desire to decide (too) rapidly.

Things have, quite obviously, gone way out of hand. The initial purpose was to show a firm hand, a proper response to a major faux-pas by the Yokozuna. So far so good, and a heavy penalty is something I would've felt perfectly natural. Roho's three day suspension, from criminally-reprehensible behavior, was too light, but the distance from that to suspension for two basho is pretty huge. Ex-Yokozuna Kitanofuji himself received a much lesser penalty, for surfing right after going kyujo on an ongoing basho (as mentioned earlier in the thread) ; while I understand that jungyo should be considered as important as honbasho, I don't think it's MORE important, justifying such a difference in treatment.

As far as I know, no hints of pressure for Asa to go intai were given, and I don't think anyone suggested that the suspension was a roundabout way for the kyokai to ask for asa's retirement. Had that been the case, any punishment would've seemed proper, a simple message that it was time for him to go. But in the current circumstances, I can't help but think that the whole thing boils down to an excessive decision made in haste.

If Asashoryu really does leave sumo - which I really wouldn't have thought possible when this thread began, but begins to look likely now - this story will leave a scar on sumo. Not because of the fact that Asa will have left (there have been other yokozuna in the past and there will be many more), but because the Kyokai will have shown its inability to properly handle a serious situation.

That's why I think a lot of people feel pretty uncomfortable about this whole thing ; it feels like something which got out of hand somehow, spread without any control, and will have, on the way, caused the (excessive) loss of a brilliant rikishi and deprived us of the pleasure of watching some of the most enjoyable sumo I've seen in the last few years. The responsibility, of course, is shared - Asashoryu should be standing up and acting like a Yokozuna, but he clearly feels that the brutality of the punishment was unfair, and must be wondering what he's doing in a place where all the efforts he's made through the years seem to have brought him no sympathy, and no support at this difficult time.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

...This doesn't mean, however, that the NSK (or whoever the precise decision-making body is) can't make mistakes. It seems to have put itself in a very awkward situation, in my opinion because of the desire to decide (too) rapidly.

Too quickly?! Asashoryu's first indiscresion as yokozuna was in July of 2003. His hansoku loss followed by a fight in the furoba and reportedly breaking a car wing mirror in the parking lot got the ball rolling 4 years ago. And, it hasn't been smooth sailing since then. Skipping the former Takasago oyakata's funeral, breaking the heya door when drunk, wearing non-traditional clothing and ditching his mage in public, et cetera. The wheels were in motion long before this latest incident.

Things have, quite obviously, gone way out of hand. The initial purpose was to show a firm hand, a proper response to a major faux-pas by the Yokozuna. So far so good, and a heavy penalty is something I would've felt perfectly natural...

Yes, it seems pretty fair to say the NSK was unprepared for thre drama that unfolded after the suspension and has been unable to deal with it effectively.

If Asashoryu really does leave sumo - which I really wouldn't have thought possible when this thread began, but begins to look likely now - this story will leave a scar on sumo. Not because of the fact that Asa will have left (there have been other yokozuna in the past and there will be many more), but because the Kyokai will have shown its inability to properly handle a serious situation.

That's why I think a lot of people feel pretty uncomfortable about this whole thing ; it feels like something which got out of hand somehow, spread without any control, and will have, on the way, caused the (excessive) loss of a brilliant rikishi and deprived us of the pleasure of watching some of the most enjoyable sumo I've seen in the last few years. The responsibility, of course, is shared - Asashoryu should be standing up and acting like a Yokozuna, but he clearly feels that the brutality of the punishment was unfair, and must be wondering what he's doing in a place where all the efforts he's made through the years seem to have brought him no sympathy, and no support at this difficult time.

I agree with this for the most part. Things got out of hand years ago, came to a head now, and no-one seems to have much of a strategy for navigating through the mess. The old "close ranks" (and more recently sue, sue, sue) doesn't wash anymore.

[Arslan 0]

I haven't heard that demonstration yet.

:) What took them wait so long . :) There are some local student unions, one civil non-governmental organisation expressed their opinion.

As I read, Asa's family is very quite.

Public opinion is indifferent.

If Asa continue sumo, people expect to see him kicking some more faatballs.

If he quits sumo, that is also fine, no big deal. He'll be back in homeland where he always wanted to go, personally he'll enjoy freedom life, some more kids (Blinking...) , he should quit sumo and study some profession in Japan. His brother Sumaya came to Japan and advised Asa to study English in this NSK approved free time and went back, :-D . Everything has good side

Actually no one lose

It was in todays newspapers. I also wonder what took them so long and what is doing the government (as it said the government asked Asa to participate in charity soccer) and the President. I've heard that a few years ago he has appointed Asa as his advisor in sport. Why he is keeping quiet. Or he is only good for following Asa to Paris and not defending his employee? (I am going off-topic...)

As for Asa leaving sumo I think this shoudn't be the case. He must not leave sumo because of the ridiculous punishment. He is still young and able to beat the records made by the previous yokozunas. He must go for it and especialy now after the attempt NSK made to get rid of him. :-S

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj 0]

If he quits sumo, that is also fine, no big deal.

And with that comment you show 100% that you don't belong here.

I think when you quit this forum it will be no big deal, but to say the same of an active yokozuna...... (Shaking head...)....clueless, utterly clueless.

please, read it in context. I was not expressing my opinion, but conveying what is in mong.media/public opinion.

Btw: Why are you doing that? If you decide that I don't belong here, If you want to ban me, why don't you do that.

Edited August 17, 2007 by Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj 0]

It was in todays newspapers.

Now I see.

http://www.mongolnews.info/index.php?modul...ew&id=19930

It says:- Yesterday a demonstration was organised by civil movements like "Reform" and "Democratic Union" in front of Embassy of Japan. Demonstrators started at 11AM blowing whistle, holding flag which says " Asashoryu Akinori- symbol of friendship"., they handed over Letter to Japanese Embassy. Aim of demonstration is voice of Mongolian people to be heard, to express wish of Mongolian people and to support Asashoryu. Demonstrators find punishment by NSC is inhumane (house arrest), discriminatory (punishment imposed on Asasshoryu ( as foreign) compare to solution of Kitonafuji case ). Basically demonstrators demanded NSC to reconsider their decision and requested Embassy, their letter to be transfered to NSC.

Official of Japanese Embassy responded to demonstrators. "(I) don't know how to respond your request/demand. Embassy of Japan handles affair between the governments. Anyway your letter will be tranfered to NSC"

Also article mentioned about one sided information on Japanese media

(Shaking head...)

Edited August 17, 2007 by Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj

[Shomishuu 0]

If Asa continue sumo, people expect to see him kicking some more faatballs.

If he quits sumo, that is also fine, no big deal. He'll be back in homeland where he always wanted to go, personally he'll enjoy freedom life, some more kids (Shaking head...) , he should quit sumo and study some profession in Japan. His brother Sumaya came to Japan and advised Asa to study English in this NSK approved free time and went back, :-D . Everything has good side

Actually no one lose

Sorry if this appears to be piling on but I haven't been able to get to this until now. I have to say though that I completely disagree with this last sentence because the truth is just the opposite. If Asashoryu himself quits or stays in the closet and forces his own intai, then no one wins. Ozumo fans world wide and ozumo itself are big losers because they've been deprived for six years of the ultimate sumo show - two strong yokozuna pursuing the yusho day by day during a basho and finally clashing on senshuraku to settle it. We've been missing this for too long - we've survived it because we truly love sumo but enough is enough...that's how I've felt. When Hakuho claimed his place alongside Asashoryu, the drought ended. The anticipation of how Asashoryu would respond to a real rival was almost liberating. And now this.

Well, I guess we'll get over it but that doesn't mean we haven't lost anything. What we've lost is hope, and now we'll have to wait and wait some more.

What about ozumo itself? It has to face the harsh reality that they contributed to this by coming down on Asashoryu, not too soon but way too late. As Otokoyama has pointed out, they've had countless opportunities to demand proper behavior from the yokozuna but they too fell under his 'spell' and allowed him to continue his outrageous acts. Now they must rebuild their own credibility after having lost it.

Takasago Oyakata? Even a bigger loser, who will never get back to where he was a month ago. Never, no way.

Kitanoumi Richijo? Where did the 'Next Rijicho' thread come from? Do you think the talk only exists here?

What about the other Mongolian rikishi? Can't you just imagine them wondering how to respond to the questions they'll get from their countrymen back home? Especially Kyokutenho's Japanese citizenship and Hakuho's wife - already a 'topic' in Mongolia. Like they don't have enought to worry about just trying to do better sumo.

But ozumo will rebuild itself because it always does. I don't know how many times over the past 35 years I've observed sumo writers proclaim that sumo is in a funk, that the rikishi of 'today' can't hold a candle to those from years of yore - Ryo Hatano saying "Boring boring basho" or "Worst basho in years" and so on. The other Mongolians will persevere, but I do worry about Hakuho because he will get the biggest scrutiny and he has the most to lose, of course.

But the biggest loser is Asashoryu himself. The yokozuna has spent much of his adult life constructing himself as an indestructible mountain of a man who achieved legendary status by means of his invincible will - his ability to mentally defeat his opponents before they even faced him, simultaneously intimidating those whose charge it was to instruct and guide him. He had finally arrived at a place in his life where he accepted as normal the idea that he completely controlled all who might challenge him or prevent him from doing exactly what he wanted.

And now all that is over - in practically the blink of an eye, done! And he knows it. He can never be that man again. And he hasn't the foggiest clue what to do about it.

Ozumo will recover and so will we, because it always has and we know that. I'm not so sure about Asashoryu. Is he really depressed or mentally ill? How would any of us know? But if he is - regardless of what caused it - that's a huge huge loss. What if he isn't? Well then he's just a whining wimp who can't cope with real life, isn't he? Either way, he's a loser.

So I have to disagree. Even if Asashoryu comes out of it and ends up with 35 yusho, what's happened can't be wiped away now...it's gone on too long and will follow him forever. For everyone touched by this, and especially the yokozuna, it's lose lose lose. It's very sad, and I also would like somebody to wake me up.

[Asashosakari 19,661]

What about ozumo itself? It has to face the harsh reality that they contributed to this by coming down on Asashoryu, not too soon but way too late. As Otokoyama has pointed out, they've had countless opportunities to demand proper behavior from the yokozuna but they too fell under his 'spell' and allowed him to continue his outrageous acts. Now they must rebuild their own credibility after having lost it.

I don't get this, to be honest. From the foreign point of view, what exactly could the Kyokai have done to censure Asashoryu in the past that wouldn't have prompted the same level of criticism, or even more? It's not like they've simply closed their eyes and pretended that nothing was happening...there were plenty of stern comments after all the various incidents that Otokonoyama listed above, and the only one who obviously closed his eyes and ears was Asashoryu (and perhaps Takasago-oyakata). I find it hard to believe that there would have been any substantial support for actual punishments among foreign fans before now. Heck, just look at how reviled Makiko Uchidate is for merely stating in public all the things that the Kyokai bigwigs must have been saying in private as well.

No, if the Kyokai had acted more swiftly and nipped Asashoryu's antics in the bud years ago, we'd probably be exactly where we are now, except that we'd be talking about the potential intai of a seven-yusho winner (or thereabout) rather than a 21-yusho guy, and the whole tone of the discussion would be more of a Futahaguro-esque "who knows what might have been without this incident", not the "aww, we're gonna prematurely lose one of the all-time greats, how sad" that's prevalent right now.

I've intentionally stayed away from posting in this thread the past few days while my own opinions were in flux, but at this point I've pretty much arrived at "suck it up already or get outta here, Asashoryu". Yes, it would suck if he were to go intai and I wouldn't exactly be happy about it or anything (nor would anybody else with the exception of maybe a handful of people), but like you're saying, sumo would survive - and the current events are coming across, if that's at all possible, as even more juvenile than all his previous antics, and I've just about had it now. Following this story has felt like watching a movie or TV series that features an annoying child character - it's grating on my nerves to the point that I'm tempted to reach for the remote control, as it were, but since I can't exactly turn sumo off, I'd be quite relieved to see the annoying child character "discontinued". And that means either a character makeover for Asashoryu or his intai - at this point I'd take either, as long as something happens soon. If this drags out until December I might be ready to forge his intai papers myself...

If you want to ban me, why don't you do that.

I would but I can't, because, to paraphrase what uncle Ben told Peter, with great power comes great temptation to act mischievously, and those who pull the strings around here know better than to trust me with any kind of decision making control.

Funny, that sounds exactly like posts I've written in the past - you truly are turning into my version 2.0, John.

Edited August 17, 2007 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama 45,530]

Ex-Yokozuna Kitanofuji himself received a much lesser penalty, for surfing right after going kyujo on an ongoing basho (as mentioned earlier in the thread) ; while I understand that jungyo should be considered as important as honbasho, I don't think it's MORE important, justifying such a difference in treatment.

You forgot some small details-Kitanofuji immediately returned to Japan. He was allowed to go to Hawaii. Asa didn't return immediately. Kitanofuji apologized publicly for his indiscretion. Asa has yet to do so. Kitanofuji did what he was "expected" to. Asa didn't. And Asa DOES know what is expected of him. He just really doesn't seem to think that what he did was so terrible.

[Kintamayama 45,530]

Today is the 17th. Today, the designated doctor is supposed to start treating Asashouryuu. Everyone has been waiting for him to come home from his summer holidays. After days of debating, the NSK's Doctor Yoshida decided it would be best not to utilize many doctors, and use the "original" one, the one that was first on the scene. But the doctor doesn't seem to want that job. "I am not the attending physician, so I have no intention of treating him", he is alleged to have said. "I gave my diagnosis on the 6th, and that's that.. I have affirmed that. I have not been asked for a new medical examination at present. Even if I do get asked to do it, it would be difficult..", he said to some TV reporters. "We are having some coordination problems, but I would like to persuade him somehow. If he refuses, I will have to find someone else", explained Yoshida-san. Papers say another few days without treatment leaving Asa in further mental limbo cannot be good for anyone.

So it looks like the treatment will not be renewed today after all. "In any case, for the good of the Yokozuna , we need a quick decision regarding which physician will be treating him!", said Asa's camp.

This sucks. It is so incomprehensible it is mind toggling and boggling and woggling. NSK gave the guy a severe punishment, he turned the tables on the NSK by not "following the script", and now the NSK are totally in the dark and have no clue how to deal with this. It looks increasingly like the NSK jumped into the water without thoroughly checking its depth. Either that, or Asa is weaving an intricate web. In any case, someone has to get in there pronto and see what's happening. It's been 4 days since any outsider has seen Asa and it looks like it will be at least another 2 days.

Edited August 17, 2007 by Kintamayama

[Arslan 0]

You forgot some small details-Kitanofuji immediately returned to Japan. He was allowed to go to Hawaii. Asa didn't return immediately. Kitanofuji apologized publicly for his indiscretion. Asa has yet to do so. Kitanofuji did what he was "expected" to. Asa didn't. And Asa DOES know what is expected of him. He just really doesn't seem to think that what he did was so terrible.

Terrible? (Shaking head...) The word is too strong. The synonyms of terrible are horrible, awful, dreadful, shocking. Terrible wouldn be beating people, killing dogs, selling drugs, etc. Comparing to those things playing charity soccer without having approval from NSC is not that bad? Don't you think?

[Kintamayama 45,530]

Terrible? (Shaking head...) The word is too strong. The synonyms of terrible are horrible, awful, dreadful, shocking. Terrible wouldn be beating people, killing dogs, selling drugs, etc. Comparing to those things playing charity soccer without having approval from NSC is not that bad? Don't you think?

Exactly. To him, the NSK is totally over-reacting, and many other fans seem to agree. He seems to think he doesn't deserve such a severe punishment and is seemingly at a loss to deal with it, consequently.

[Peterao 3]

Terrible? (Shaking head...) The word is too strong. The synonyms of terrible are horrible, awful, dreadful, shocking. Terrible wouldn be beating people, killing dogs, selling drugs, etc. Comparing to those things playing charity soccer without having approval from NSC is not that bad? Don't you think?

It all depends on how you phrase things. "Playing charity soccer without having approval from NSC" does not sound terrible. However, "Pretending to be injured to fly home to enjoy himself while shirking his charity duties to the rural fans of sumo" does sound terrible to me.

As usual, the actual truth of the matter is probably somewhere in between. But if it's closer to the latter, then I don't believe that "terrible" is too strong a word to use.

[ilovesumo 12]

From what I read on blogs, the Jungyo is very hard and the guys are pretty exhausted.

Some collapsed. (and it's only Sekitori's problems we can read about, nobody ever talks about a collapsed Toriteki) And after coming home, no chance to relax cause it's pre-Basho time then.

That fact must have blown oil into the flame, making the whole deal- not to take part- a bigger deal.

About the doctors.........how can it be so difficult to get one....one phone call to get a professor of any daigaku dealing with it- and ready we are.

There is always a way if you really want.

[Jakusotsu 6,049]

There is always a way if you really want.

...and vice versa: if you don't make it happen, you don't want it to happen.

[Jonosuke 28]

From what I read on blogs, the Jungyo is very hard and the guys are pretty exhausted.

Some collapsed.

Actually there has been intense heat wave going on in Japan this week with temperatures reaching 40 degrees and high humidity in some places (Gunma and Saitama, close to where they have been) and rikishi were not the only ones fainting and collapsing. People were dying in Japan due to heat.

Jyungyo is always hard but there are other factors involved too.

Anyway it's really great to see ilovesumo back on this forum in genki form.

Edited August 17, 2007 by Jonosuke

[Kintamayama 45,530]

A new psychiatrist ( Dr.高木) went to see Asa at his home today at the behest of the Kyokai clinic, after the guy on holiday came back but refused to re-examine Asa. His diagnosis was exactly the same as the first doctor's on day 1: Acute stress. This diagnosis was then conveyed to the Kyokai and to Takasago, who said Asa hardly answered the questions asked by the physician.

The plan is to start treatment at the beginning of next week.

Edited August 17, 2007 by Kintamayama

[Jonosuke 28]

Apparently there was a difference of understanding with Dr. Imasaka, the previous doctor who examined Asashoryu for the Kyokai. He thought he was asked only for a second opinion and he has not accepted Asashoryu as his patient on behalf of the Kyokai.

The new doctor Shuichiro Takagi, medical director of his own clinic located in a fashionable Jiyugaoka district in Tokyo, is a specialist in treating anorexia patients. He was asked by the Kyokai to examine Asashoryu and he came to the same conclusion as Dr. Imasaki.

Dr. Takagi has not accepted yet to treat Asashoryu formally so we still don't know what the Kyokai's next step would be but they appear to be reluctant have him treated by Asashoryu's personal physician and a doctor he has referred, Dr. Honda whose main speciality is foreskin surgery.

The chief director of clinic where Dr. Imasaka works, Dr. Koichi Ishii, believes Asashoryu should be hospitalized and treated by a team of specialists but Asashoryu has been steadfastly refusing to go to a hospital.

The common thread running between all three Kyokai doctors are they are all graduates of Keio University Department of Psychiatry.

Edited August 17, 2007 by Jonosuke

[Coo-cook 0]

If Asa continue sumo, people expect to see him kicking some more faatballs.

If he quits sumo, that is also fine, no big deal. He'll be back in homeland where he always wanted to go, personally he'll enjoy freedom life, some more kids :-) , he should quit sumo and study some profession in Japan. His brother Sumaya came to Japan and advised Asa to study English in this NSK approved free time and went back, :-D . Everything has good side

Actually no one lose

Sorry if this appears to be piling on but I haven't been able to get to this until now. I have to say though that I completely disagree with this last sentence because the truth is just the opposite. If Asashoryu himself quits or stays in the closet and forces his own intai, then no one wins. Ozumo fans world wide and ozumo itself are big losers because they've been deprived for six years of the ultimate sumo show - two strong yokozuna pursuing the yusho day by day during a basho and finally clashing on senshuraku to settle it. We've been missing this for too long - we've survived it because we truly love sumo but enough is enough...that's how I've felt. When Hakuho claimed his place alongside Asashoryu, the drought ended. The anticipation of how Asashoryu would respond to a real rival was almost liberating. And now this.

Well, I guess we'll get over it but that doesn't mean we haven't lost anything. What we've lost is hope, and now we'll have to wait and wait some more.

What about ozumo itself? It has to face the harsh reality that they contributed to this by coming down on Asashoryu, not too soon but way too late. As Otokoyama has pointed out, they've had countless opportunities to demand proper behavior from the yokozuna but they too fell under his 'spell' and allowed him to continue his outrageous acts. Now they must rebuild their own credibility after having lost it.

Takasago Oyakata? Even a bigger loser, who will never get back to where he was a month ago. Never, no way.

Kitanoumi Richijo? Where did the 'Next Rijicho' thread come from? Do you think the talk only exists here?

What about the other Mongolian rikishi? Can't you just imagine them wondering how to respond to the questions they'll get from their countrymen back home? Especially Kyokutenho's Japanese citizenship and Hakuho's wife - already a 'topic' in Mongolia. Like they don't have enought to worry about just trying to do better sumo.

But ozumo will rebuild itself because it always does. I don't know how many times over the past 35 years I've observed sumo writers proclaim that sumo is in a funk, that the rikishi of 'today' can't hold a candle to those from years of yore - Ryo Hatano saying "Boring boring basho" or "Worst basho in years" and so on. The other Mongolians will persevere, but I do worry about Hakuho because he will get the biggest scrutiny and he has the most to lose, of course.

But the biggest loser is Asashoryu himself. The yokozuna has spent much of his adult life constructing himself as an indestructible mountain of a man who achieved legendary status by means of his invincible will - his ability to mentally defeat his opponents before they even faced him, simultaneously intimidating those whose charge it was to instruct and guide him. He had finally arrived at a place in his life where he accepted as normal the idea that he completely controlled all who might challenge him or prevent him from doing exactly what he wanted.

And now all that is over - in practically the blink of an eye, done! And he knows it. He can never be that man again. And he hasn't the foggiest clue what to do about it.

Ozumo will recover and so will we, because it always has and we know that. I'm not so sure about Asashoryu. Is he really depressed or mentally ill? How would any of us know? But if he is - regardless of what caused it - that's a huge huge loss. What if he isn't? Well then he's just a whining wimp who can't cope with real life, isn't he? Either way, he's a loser.

So I have to disagree. Even if Asashoryu comes out of it and ends up with 35 yusho, what's happened can't be wiped away now...it's gone on too long and will follow him forever. For everyone touched by this, and especially the yokozuna, it's lose lose lose. It's very sad, and I also would like somebody to wake me up.

Agree 99.9%.

But, I have 0.1% disagreement with you, Shomishuu.

I think majority of people of nowadays Japan and Mongolia are not that "truly Japanese" or "truly Mongolian" like some media or forum members (like me) want to describe them.

Most of their thinking is not feudalistic, conservative, backward, or nationalistic ....and I don't think Kyokutenho's marriage and Hakuho's wife are that serious "topic" in Mongolia,...and I don't think Japanese are sending a hidden message to Asashoryu for his retirement and Japanese are seriously offended by his "non-Japanese" antiques (You didn't say those things, of course).

So, everything is not over yet. There are lots of possibilities Asa can make a comeback ( I mean his reputation and acceptance in Japan).

Edited August 17, 2007 by Coo-cook