Asa in hot water-thread 2

[Asashosakari 19,667]

Now Takasago-beya is not only without a yokozuna, but without an oyakata to help prepare for Aki (and Kyushu?) basho as well!

He's going for a short time, just to check out the facilities and see that Asa is really getting treatment for body and soul. A Japanese psychiatrist is also supposed to be going.

According to Sports Hochi, the doctor that will accompany Asashoryu to Mongolia will be Honda the foreskin expert. Hmm. Also, contrary to earlier assumptions that he would be returning to Japan in time for Aki basho, it appears that Asashoryu will be allowed to stay in Mongolia all through September. (Smart decision, I'd say.)

[Asashosakari 19,667]

Another apology press conference picture:

[Jonosuke 28]

The decision was "unanimous" only because Takasago oyakata took the responsibility for all the mess that went on for the last four weeks and pledged that he would take the full responsiblity of any action Asashoryu might take in Mongolia.

Just what did Takasago apologize for? Having the yokozuna issue what can be best described as an ambigous injury report and being discovered the condition was not as serious as initially believed?

No, not at all. What he apologized for was having this mess going on for so long and as a result of him not taking care of it quickly and decisively initially. Basically he apologized to the fans and sumo officials to be inundated with this story day after day and rikishi and Kyokai officials working so hard at Jyungyo stops under hot sun for the fans coming out while this news was going on.

I saw a news clip on NHK today when they asked a few rikishi for their opinion on the Kyokai decision today. Iwakiyama expressed the view shared by most rikishi : if he is seriously ill, then it's best to get it cured. There must have been some doubt but most.

This summer's Jyungyo tour was a long ardous one as most days, temperatures were well above 30 degrees with almost 90% humidity. Some days the temperature went up close to 37 degrees. Under the hot sun, they all worked longer and harder than usual to please the fans. They endured hours of uncomfortable bus ride.

So you can imagine there weren't many who sympatheized with Asashoryu's plight. Asashoryu has lost a great deal of peer respect as a fellow rikishi. There was one unanonymous comment from a Takasago beya rikishi, "That's his typical M.O. When things don't go his way, he raises tantrums until he gets his way."

If Asashoryu believes he has not done anything wrong, then he didn't need to apologize for it but the least he could have done was what Takasago oyakata has done. If he would have apologized to all those who put in hours and hours of Jyungyo work, then he would have gained more goodwill.

As it is, he looks like a kid who's done something his neighbors got upset and having his mother to go out and apologize for him.

The fact that Takasago came out and announced he would take the full responsibility of Asashoryu's conduct in Mongolia means that should something happen in Mongolia, then it's also he would have to resign his position as a heya owning oyakata. I guess they have enough oyakata in that heya to take over from him if it comes to that.

[Hananotaka 8]

For those who think that Asashoryu has beaten the system, remember that the basho suspension and pay cut are still in full force. Not to mention that Asa has damaged his endorsements marketability, so those kinds of offers won't be coming for a while. The two month restriction to quarters was always going to be tough to enforce, and from the start it was always the part of the punishment deemed excessive by those in Japan who thought the punishment was too much.

Asa is by no means free to do as he pleases. The minute he looks genki he's going to be recalled to Japan, his "treatment" considered a success. And as has been suggested, expelling Asa from the Kyokai is just a matter of paper work, so Asa's not going to try and show up the Kyokai. (Since he hasn't retired I'm assuming he still wants to be a part of Ozumo.)

Also, while I don't for a minute believe "disassociative disorder", it certainly is not out of the realm for Asa to be suffering from acute depression and/or extreme stress. Earlier I made a point of wondering why Asa can't quite seem to fit into Japan. Thinking it over, I think it's obvious that he hasn't really been trying for a while. Since he became Yokozuna he's been regularly heading off to Mongolia as soon as the opportunity arises. I suspect that living in Japan has long been stressful for him, enough to drive him to Mongolia whenever he can go. Living in a foreign country requires an altogether different kind of mental toughness than what's required to succeed on the dohyo. Some people are born to it (and I suspect Kyokutenho is one of them), and others find it difficult no matter what their other gifts are.

I wish Asashoryu could have just stuck it out till the end of the Kyushu Basho, but it's entire possible, IMO, that that was from a practical standpoint simply impossible for him -- that going two months without a trip to Mongolia would normally be highly stressful for him, and adding confinement to his house for the duration would have pushed things to their breaking point. The Kyokai's goal in punishment was not to force Asa out of sumo, and if the punishment they handed out threatened to do that, then I think it's good of them to show the foresight to adjust to the situation.

[Coo-cook 0]

For those who think that Asashoryu has beaten the system, remember that the basho suspension and pay cut are still in full force. Not to mention that Asa has damaged his endorsements marketability, so those kinds of offers won't be coming for a while. The two month restriction to quarters was always going to be tough to enforce, and from the start it was always the part of the punishment deemed excessive by those in Japan who thought the punishment was too much.

Asa is by no means free to do as he pleases. The minute he looks genki he's going to be recalled to Japan, his "treatment" considered a success. And as has been suggested, expelling Asa from the Kyokai is just a matter of paper work, so Asa's not going to try and show up the Kyokai. (Since he hasn't retired I'm assuming he still wants to be a part of Ozumo.)

Also, while I don't for a minute believe "disassociative disorder", it certainly is not out of the realm for Asa to be suffering from acute depression and/or extreme stress. Earlier I made a point of wondering why Asa can't quite seem to fit into Japan. Thinking it over, I think it's obvious that he hasn't really been trying for a while. Since he became Yokozuna he's been regularly heading off to Mongolia as soon as the opportunity arises. I suspect that living in Japan has long been stressful for him, enough to drive him to Mongolia whenever he can go. Living in a foreign country requires an altogether different kind of mental toughness than what's required to succeed on the dohyo. Some people are born to it (and I suspect Kyokutenho is one of them), and others find it difficult no matter what their other gifts are.

I wish Asashoryu could have just stuck it out till the end of the Kyushu Basho, but it's entire possible, IMO, that that was from a practical standpoint simply impossible for him -- that going two months without a trip to Mongolia would normally be highly stressful for him, and adding confinement to his house for the duration would have pushed things to their breaking point. The Kyokai's goal in punishment was not to force Asa out of sumo, and if the punishment they handed out threatened to do that, then I think it's good of them to show the foresight to adjust to the situation.

If he had been left alone he could've stuck it out till Kyushu....But, all that media attention, doctors visits and the constant leakage about his mental condition were just too much for him.....and made things worse.

I don't know whether it was his wish having doctors and his oyokata accompanying him to Mongolia. Probably not... it sounds like a kind of an "additional punishment". Asa should be left alone. His soccer affair was not intentional and he learned his lessons, I guess.

Now retirement sounds a really better option for him after all.

[aderechelsea 125]

what the hell is going on ?????

i leave for a few days (or months?) and all hell breaks loose ....

I am speechless in Salvador.

[Kaikitsune Makoto 209]

what the hell is going on ?????

i leave for a few days (or months?) and all hell breaks loose ....

I am speechless in Salvador.

Nah...Shoryu in mental state and havoc all over, Kintamayama got heart attack and Greece burns to ashes. It may be a JINX.

[Kaikitsune Makoto 209]

There was one unanonymous comment from a Takasago beya rikishi, "That's his typical M.O. When things don't go his way, he raises tantrums until he gets his way."

Hmmm...if this isn't "taken out of context" report or downright false report, then it is rather surprising that in such hierarchial world some lower ranked rikishi dares to make such comment, no matter if unanonymous or not. Nothing surprising in that of course. Spoiled child and psychopath profile has been forming for a long time so this was kind of trivial "revelation".

[Jonosuke 28]

"How can you go against a professional medical opinion from a specialist when you are just an ordinary man," one anti-lenient oyakata uttered after the special Directors meeting to discuss Asashoryu's return to Mongolia. "When presented with such serious series of future prospect, we basically had to go along with it however we were unsatisified with the final decision."

To appease the anti-faction, Kitanoumi oyakata placed certain conditions such as Takasago oyakata and physician to accompany Asashoryu to Mongolia to inspect medical facilities and ensure proper treatment and rehabilitaiton programs to be set for Asashoryu.

Though Asashoryu will be no longer restricted on his movement in Mongolia, Kitanoumi oyakata emphasized such activities as drinking and partying would not be tolerated. He hinted that any activity considered to be outside of medical treatment, rehab and other reasonable activity could be considered to invite more grave action from the Kyokai against not only Asashoryu but also to the shisho.

When Takasago oyakata personally requested to the directors to allow Asashoryu travelled to Mongolia, the oyakata made it clear should anything happen, he would personally take the full responsibility (implying he would resign from his Kyokai post and his position as a heya owning oyakata). When confronted by such a finality, there was not much more needed to be said, according to another attendee.

While the Directors have agreed to follow the physician's recommendation, there is a wide spread concern among other oyakata about maintaining the proper supervision and keeping up on the progress of injured or ill rikishi staying on a foreign soil. Especially after the incessant reporting of Asashoryu's persistent desire to return to his homeland, many oyakatas are said to be reconsidering their recruitment of foreign born rikishi. Obviously currently there is no sentiment among oyakata for increasing the number of foreign born rikishi in Ozumo.

Some oyakata believe the number of Mongolian rikishi in Ozumo has already peaked and suspect their number would be halved in three years as sumo interest is already declining in Mongolia as well as reluctance of many oyakata to take in an Mongolian athlete with no sumo experience and no Japanese language knowledge (there are a few Mongolian amateur rikishi in Japanese school system and they appear to be still recruitment targets).

For foreign born rikishi, more oyakata are appearing to be looking for amateur rikishi who have either competed in international tournaments or training at amateur sumo schools. They include South American amateurs of Japanese descent and others from such countries as Malaysia, China, Taiwan, Korea and even United States. Some oyakata still feel Eastern Euroean amateurs to be worth recruiting but all point out given superior physical attributes and athleticism, the most important consideration will be their character and attitude.

It will be rather unfortunate that if another Hakuho arrives in Japan now, he would have absoltuely no chance of becoming a rikishi but for now we can blame it all in the Asashoryu Factor.

Edited August 28, 2007 by Jonosuke

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj 0]

Some oyakata believe the number of Mongolian rikishi in Ozumo has already peaked and suspect their number would be halved in three years as sumo interest is already declining in Mongolia as well as reluctance of many oyakata to take in an Mongolian athlete with no sumo experience and no Japanese language knowledge (there are a few Mongolian amateur rikishi in Japanese school system and they appear to be still recruitment targets).

that is why there should be Mongolian Sumo School in Mongolia. It should be started by Mongolian Yokozunas- Asa or Hakuho. Shuzan also can start his school. It would be amazing addition to Mongolian culture, one more public attraction

Asa should retire in Mongolia, start his school...but maybe too young. Over 35 is good

all point out given superior physical attributes and athleticism, the most important consideration will be their character and attitude.

They can be tall. But they are not natural wrestlers. One thing very weak about "foreigners" is they don't have good grip to earth. How to say in English, I am not sure. They have bad legs, bad balance , bad instinct, too technical most of them.

Edited August 28, 2007 by Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj

[Kintamayama 45,530]

Some rikishi's remarks today:

"He's going back to Mongolia to treat his injuries. I think it would be good if he could relax and get treated. It seems like his heart is more injured than his body", said Hakuhou. "Well, he is going for treatment and will be back before the start of the basho..", said Chiyotaikai. When told that there was no time limit and that Asa might not return for the start of next basho, he said: "Oh, is that so??", showing great surprise facially. "He's just a human, and he has to get his spirit mended", added Kyokutenhou. "He can relax over there mentally. I'd like him to get over his injuries and return quickly", said Asasekiryuu.

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj 0]

Some rikishi's remarks today:

"He's going back to Mongolia to treat his injuries. I think it would be good if he could relax and get treated. It seems like his heart is more injured than his body", said Hakuhou. "Well, he is going for treatment and will be back before the start of the basho..", said Chiyotaikai. When told that there was no time limit and that Asa might not return for the start of next basho, he said: "Oh, is that so??", showing great surprise facially. "He's just a human, and he has to get his spirit mended", added Kyokutenhou. "He can relax over there mentally. I'd like him to get over his injuries and return quickly", said Asasekiryuu.

I like Hakuho's remark. See difference of Mongolians opinions on Asa, they more inclined to say about spiritual, emotional issues rather than physical or medical ( psychiatric) issue.

As for Asashoryu psychiatric issue, we don't know anything actually. There are is not facts, except others interview which can be politically motivated.

For Asashoryu as long as he goes back to Mongolia, he does not care what others talk about him.

Edited August 28, 2007 by Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj

[Kaikitsune Makoto 209]

This might be the way for Shoryu...

Gers' (a form of tent that is home to many Mongolians) are used for people with mental disorders as an alternative to living in a mental health institution. The gers provide sheltered accommodation as well as greater autonomy and freedom. People living in gers are engaged in day-to-day activities such as herding horses, milking cows, fuel gathering, gardening, carpentry, and embroidery.

[Kintamayama 45,530]

I like Hakuho's remark. See difference of Mongolians opinions on Asa, they more inclined to say about spiritual, emotional issues rather than physical or medical ( psychiatric) issue.

As for Asashoryu psychiatric issue, we don't know anything actually. There are is not facts, except others interview which can be politically motivated.

For Asashoryu as long as he goes back to Mongolia, he does not care what others talk about him.

And I'm pretty sure, that not very deep down inside, they all think he's full of it and is not reflecting well on other Mongolian rikishi.

100% sure.

Edited August 28, 2007 by Kintamayama

[Jonosuke 28]

that is why there should be Mongolian Sumo School in Mongolia. It should be started by Mongolian Yokozunas- Asa or Hakuho. Shuzan also can start his school. It would be amazing addition to Mongolian culture, one more public attraction

Asa should retire in Mongolia, start his school...but maybe too young. Over 35 is good

Why not forget about the whole sumo thing in Japan and just do Boke and Naadam?

Then you don't have to learn the whole lotta new things and not have to deal with the Japanese cultural stuff.

You don't need Ozumo really, you have all that wonderful competitions of all your own.

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj 0]

that is why there should be Mongolian Sumo School in Mongolia. It should be started by Mongolian Yokozunas- Asa or Hakuho. Shuzan also can start his school. It would be amazing addition to Mongolian culture, one more public attraction

Asa should retire in Mongolia, start his school...but maybe too young. Over 35 is good

Why not forget about the whole sumo thing in Japan and just do Boke and Naadam?

Then you don't have to learn the whole lotta new things and not have to deal with the Japanese cultural stuff.

You don't need Ozumo really, you have all that wonderful competitions of all your own.

You missed the point. I said "in addition to our wrestling" Boke/ Naadam will be always there.

About Mongolian Sumo

Politically say :- it would be wonderful cultural exchange between the nation. In this way there will be more REAL understanding of both sides in grass root level.

Frankly say Mongols are very open minded people for new things like from christianity to sumo, Japanese cultural stuff, . And We will have our NAADAM always which has survived all the historical turmoils.

Edited August 28, 2007 by Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj

[ilovesumo 12]

I like Hakuho's remark. See difference of Mongolians opinions on Asa, they more inclined to say about spiritual, emotional issues rather than physical or medical ( psychiatric) issue.

As for Asashoryu psychiatric issue, we don't know anything actually. There are is not facts, except others interview which can be politically motivated.

For Asashoryu as long as he goes back to Mongolia, he does not care what others talk about him.

And I'm pretty sure, that not very deep down inside, they all think he's full of it and is not reflecting well on other Mongolian rikishi.

100% sure.

Hakuho is a very kind person. That's his true feeling. Here I am 100% sure. Kyokutenho and Asasekiryu are nice as well.

Can't say anything about T what Taikai thinks or feels, but the comment was like "going there for treatment is just normal,don't make a bigger deal out of it".

[Kotonosato 1]

I like Hakuho's remark. See difference of Mongolians opinions on Asa, they more inclined to say about spiritual, emotional issues rather than physical or medical ( psychiatric) issue.

I'm getting really tired of these broad generalizations about Mongolians, Ikh.

Hakuho talked about "heart", not Asashoryu, not all Mongolians. Why don't you just stick to the issue and stop braodening it needlessly. Asashoryu's in trouble, not all Mongolians.

Frankly say Mongols are very open minded people for new things like from christianity to sumo, Japanese cultural stuff, .

These kind of remarks are so broad that they are meaningless. If you want to start an off-topic thread, go ahead. Here, let's stick to Asashoryu.

[Peterao 3]

Asashoryu arriving at the airport.

[Kintamayama 45,530]

Hakuho is a very kind person. That's his true feeling. Here I am 100% sure. Kyokutenho and Asasekiryu are nice as well.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you know any of them well enough to come to that conclusion. Additionally, if they are all angels as you say, they should be even more indignant and pissed off at Asa for his behavior.

Neither of us know anything for a fact, so..

[Kintamayama 45,530]

Asa has landed by now in Mongolia. He was seen by 250 reporters and 100 other passengers at Narita airport. He looked down all the time and did not speak to anyone. He was seen walking very slowly as well. He entered the aircraft at 13:44 JST. As for a return date, it is indefinite. "When he gets better", is about the gist of it.

Edited August 29, 2007 by Kintamayama

[Asashosakari 19,667]

Mirror universe Asashoryu preparing to take over the world:

[Manekineko 200]

Reconstruction done. Some bits moved to the same Off-topic thread that bears most of Ikh-Mongolian-other debate. That thread is now closed, but I will move any of the same postings there.

Asa shame to sumo thread has also been split from this one, and I suggest you flame away there. This thread should be kept for fresh news (if any) and reasonable discussions of the same. Thank you.

Ps. I've spent 5-6 hours sorting through all this mess. Anyone leaving mud-tracks on my nice clean floor will be frowned at most fiercely.

Edited August 29, 2007 by Manekineko

[Asashosakari 19,667]

Asa has landed by now in Mongolia. He was seen by 250 reporters and 100 other passengers at the airport. He looked down all the time and di not speak to anyone. He was seen walking very slowly as well. He entered the aircraft at 13:44 JST. As for a return date, it is indefinite. "When he gets better", is about the gist of it.

And with the stay being indefinite in duration, there are now plans being made for a merry-go-round to "supervise" Asashoryu at all times. With Takasago set to return in a few days, it appears that Takasago-beya's affiliated oyakata may take turns going to Mongolia. The Mainichi writer assumes that the two old guys (Furiwake, 64, and Oyama, 54) likely wouldn't be part of the rotation, leaving Sanoyama/Wakafuji/Wakamatsu (ex-Toki/Asanosho/Asanowaka) for the job.

Edited August 29, 2007 by Asashosakari

[Indrid 0]

Damn Asashoryu looks really depressed (Neener, neener...)