Kuroyama 715 Posted August 18, 2007 What a thread to start off with! I suppose I should post to the intro thread in a while, but I'm finally giving in to temptation on this one. Relevent. Asashoryu was seeking treatment. That is why he was not able to stand beside the doyho on jungyo. Perhaps Asashoryu wants alternative treatment and no world class medical facilities in Japan can provide one. Treatment involve in spiritual, emotional support cannot be obtain in Japan. Physical injuries can be healed in Japan, but emotional one cannot. Pity he was excused from jungyo for a physical injury then. It's plain that whatever "treatment" he's been getting in Mongolia hasn't been doing him much good. His elbow hasn't been getting any better from soaking it in a hot spring -- things which, by the way, Japan has in abundance. Most likely he needs surgery and proper physical therapy for it. If he was smart, he'd take the opportunity afforded him by his suspension and take care of it for a change instead of just soaking it in hot water. Asashoryu has emotional problem, as we can see now. However, he cannot show his emotion as a Yokozuna nor can tell the world of his problem. That is why he seeks to go to Mongol. Perhaps, seeing family members help him alleviate the symptom of depression. I even think that Asashoryu has long history of depression. He just won't come out and say it because it will make him appear weak. You can't say he hasn't been allowed ample time in Mongolia. He's there almost every time between basho. Lots of people have emotional problems yet are still able to keep their commitments and obligations. So he's emotionally stable enough to fight in honbasho for two weeks at a time in front of sometimes hostile crowds, but cannot stand around and be there for the fans. This is just a silly excuse. A truly "outgoing" person wouldn't mind it in the least, and nothing in a yokozuna's code of behavior prevents him having fun in public, or with the fans. (Hell, even the Tenno smiles in public these days.) You know "serving" as a Yokozuna is full time job. I doubt many understand the pressure Asashoryu has to face. One has to live in a strict routine and rules everyday for no particular reasons but tradition. Asashoryu lives in a strict routine? Asashoryu lives in a strict routine? How on earth do you expect to be taken seriously when you say things like that? He's the least restricted rikishi in all of sumo, both in terms of those restrictions traditionally imposed on his lifestyle, and in his personal behavior. He lives in his own house. He has a wife. He comes and goes from the heya more or less as he pleases. He makes a metric buttload of money -- maybe not an obscenely high amount in Japan or in America (especially for a top sports figure) but a very nice chunk of change in Mongolia, I think, and far above average in either Japan or America. I'm sorry, but as someone with genuine, serious problems in his life, I look at Asashoryu's "pressure" and laugh. If all I had to deal with was such pressure, I'd be a contented man. Asashoryu is outgoing person who has chronic depression whenever he is restricted. I doubt anyone of you live in such a restricted life and actually enjoy it. I am pretty sure Asashoryu loves sumo but dislike Bushindo, but there is no Yokozuna rank that doesn't have Bushindo requirement. The requirements are just inhumane. Ironically, the sentence is even more inhumane. That is why we see Asashoryu the way he is now. Somehow a lifestyle that no foreign yokozuna until how has had such a problem with, including the Americans, let alone the Japanese, and which shows no sign of bothering Hakuho any, is "inhumane". No. At the pinnacle of that sport is when you can say one is finally entitled to humane treatment for the first time. Below sekitori rank... now that's inhumane. A worker can have sick day leave ESPECIALLY if he is injured on a job. Then he should stay home sick, not go work for someone else on that day. Any employer would be rightly aggrieved over such behavior. Well, you are not a doctor neither. Hidetoshi Nakata saw Asashoryu agasping in pain while you have not seen it. A normal being knows when one is in pain when he sees it. Perhaps Asashoryu should intentionally display his elbow and back pain in front of camera, so none of you will question his honor. Then he should have been seeking proper medical treatment for it instead of placing himself in a situation where 1) he could easily have worsened his injury, and 2) was bound to cause a public scandal. Let's face it, the Kyokai could have handled the situation better, and Takasago-oyakata certainly made a mess of things, but Asashoryu isn't making the situation any better when it is very much in his power to. I don't dislike Asa. He's a great wrestler, and has a presence in the dohyo both for fighting and for the dohyo-iri that's awesome to see. No one wants this. But let's not pretend he's faultless here. Skipping out on a basho is serious enough, but doing that means that he's also depriving himself of possible rewards, so there's an element in doing that where it's not entirely self-serving. But in skipping the jungyo without, it appears, good reason, while appearing in an exhibition event for another sport in another country -- any thoughtful person would realize that the fans would take it personally. And no one around him has been doing him any good either. Incidentally, Mongolia may be a nice place to visit in many ways, but I have it from a reliable source that Ulaanbataar has the worst pizza in the world. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,527 Posted August 18, 2007 What a thread to start off with! I suppose I should post to the intro thread in a while, but I'm finally giving in to temptation on this one. Let me be the first to welcome you aboard. From what I see, it's going to be nice having you around.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joeblack 0 Posted August 19, 2007 Asashoryu has emotional problem, as we can see now. However, he cannot show his emotion as a Yokozuna nor can tell the world of his problem. That is why he seeks to go to Mongol. Perhaps, seeing family members help him alleviate the symptom of depression. I even think that Asashoryu has long history of depression. He just won't come out and say it because it will make him appear weak. What episode of Star Trek is that one from? You are saying that Asa has actually been totally kookoo all this time? Are you for real? Asashoryu is outgoing person who has chronic depression whenever he is restricted. I doubt anyone of you live in such a restricted life and actually enjoy it. I am pretty sure Asashoryu loves sumo but dislike Bushindo, but there is no Yokozuna rank that doesn't have Bushindo requirement. The requirements are just inhumane. Ironically, the sentence is even more inhumane. That is why we see Asashoryu the way he is now. Are you a doctor? In what field? Or are you Asa's close friend? Do you know a friend of a friend of a friend of his? How the heck can you know this? And what is BUSHINDO?? And if he so hates this bushindo, why hasn't he left the cruel world of Sumo for some other martial arts thingy where he could make much, much more money? Or maybe the Kyokai has been holding him prisoner and brainwashing him boogy boogy boogy? A worker can have sick day leave ESPECIALLY if he is injured on a job. He doesn't have the responsibility to entertain you audience when he is injured. Please don't lecture about Japanese responsibility and self sacrifice. Anywhere in the world, when a worker gets sick leave, he doesn't go to the neighbor's office to play mahjong. He goes home or to the hospital. If his boss catcheth him at the cinema, he sends him home for good, not for a month. And he taketh away the car too. Wow. Wow. Wow. Joeblack. I am dumbfounded. Depression doesn't just pop out like that. It is a sickness. Million pp in the world have chronic depression. It is not that they have no discipline in emotion. It is a sickness that people are born with. I say Asashoryu probably has long history of depression. Bushido is exactly what Japanese expect a Yokozuna to behave. All those "graceful", "honorable", "composure", "isolation", "indifferent" traits are all Bushido values. In another word, obedience. Asashoryu simply cannot follow those repressive values. The sumo association is punishing Asashoryu for not following those rules. Apparently, while sick, playing with kids without permission from Sumo Association is considered to be disobedient. Again, there is no written rule about playing with kids while injured. When a worker gets sick leave, he can go play with neighbor's kids while not feeling well regardless if media camera is present or not. If playing with kids is not okay, then I guess playing Wii or watching TV in public also requires permission from Sumo Association. I guess inviting media to film Asashoryu playing Wii will also angers Japanese. I am sorry, an injured person sitting at home doing nothing is very boring. When my elbow and my back are hurt, I call in sick and go to neighbor's house to play Mahjong while my body recover. I don't see anything wrong with that. The boss catches me playing Mahjong, so what? I am REALLY injured and I don't want to stay home sleeping all day long. It ain't going to help me recover. Do any of you have any ACTUAL medical proof that Asashoryu is FAKING his injury? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,527 Posted August 19, 2007 (edited) Depression doesn't just pop out like that. It is a sickness. Million pp in the world have chronic depression. It is not that they have no discipline in emotion. It is a sickness that people are born with. I say Asashoryu probably has long history of depression. Assuming it's real and not an act of course. I say he doesn't. He would not have been able to withstand all the rigors of being a sole yokozuna if he had any sort of depression. Bushido is exactly what Japanese expect a Yokozuna to behave. All those "graceful", "honorable", "composure", "isolation", "indifferent" traits are all Bushido values. In another word, obedience. Asashoryu simply cannot follow those repressive values. The sumo association is punishing Asashoryu for not following those rules. Apparently, while sick, playing with kids without permission from Sumo Association is considered to be disobedient. Again, there is no written rule about playing with kids while injured. Asa has been following these rules for a few years now, most of the time with great success. And leaving for Mongolia without asking permission from anyone is disobedient. Lay off the "playing soccer with children for charity" stuff. He isn't being punished for that. When a worker gets sick leave, he can go play with neighbor's kids while not feeling well regardless if media camera is present or not. If playing with kids is not okay, then I guess playing Wii or watching TV in public also requires permission from Sumo Association. I guess inviting media to film Asashoryu playing Wii will also angers Japanese. I am sorry, an injured person sitting at home doing nothing is very boring. When my elbow and my back are hurt, I call in sick and go to neighbor's house to play Mahjong while my body recover. I don't see anything wrong with that. The boss catches me playing Mahjong, so what? I am REALLY injured and I don't want to stay home sleeping all day long. It ain't going to help me recover. The mahjong was a joke-you know exactly what I mean. If he was caught at the cinema, and would have used the lame excuse of " I am REALLY injured and I don't want to stay home sleeping all day long. It ain't going to help me recover", he would have been out on his ass in a second. I suggest you try that at YOUR workplace (where I may venture to suggest there is no bushido required..) and report to us the results. Do any of you have any ACTUAL medical proof that Asashoryu is FAKING his injury?Where did I say THAT? I believe he is physically injured pretty badly. That is the reason why I think what he did was dumb. He could easily have aggravated it and jeopardized his own career. Edited August 19, 2007 by Kintamayama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,660 Posted August 19, 2007 The requirements are just inhumane. Asashoryu simply cannot follow those repressive values. Soft bigotry of low expectations, anyone? Lots of other rikishi (both foreign and Japanese alike) have been able to live up to those standards just fine, irrespective of whether we're talking about yokozuna or "regular" rikishi. I'd love to hear you explain why Asashoryu is simply incapable of doing the same, beyond your amazing distance-diagnosis that he's genetically pre-disposed to depression. What makes Asashoryu such a miserable failure, in the estimation of an Asashoryu fan? :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Otokonoyama 2,735 Posted August 19, 2007 Bushido is exactly what Japanese expect a Yokozuna to behave. All those "graceful", "honorable", "composure", "isolation", "indifferent" traits are all Bushido values. In another word, obedience. Asashoryu simply cannot follow those repressive values. The sumo association is punishing Asashoryu for not following those rules. There are forums for those with similar thinking... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paolo 0 Posted August 19, 2007 .... ...... Che cazzo stai dicendo? ........ May I ask a favour ? I know that this statement is not routed to me, so perhaps it should not be me the one who says anything. But I am italian, so I perfectly know what it means. The debate is strong and fierce enough. Can we please avoid using such impolite ( just to use an euphemism ... ) phrases ? Can we please provide our different opinions without using so heavy expressions ? Thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Otokonoyama 2,735 Posted August 19, 2007 .... ...... Che cazzo stai dicendo? ........ May I ask a favour ? I know that this statement is not routed to me, so perhaps it should not be me the one who says anything. But I am italian, so I perfectly know what it means. The debate is strong and fierce enough. Can we please avoid using such impolite ( just to use an euphemism ... ) phrases ? Can we please provide our different opinions without using so heavy expressions ? Thanks Are you going to complain again on the Sumo Mailing List that Sumo Forumers are treating you badly? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paolo 0 Posted August 19, 2007 .... ...... Che cazzo stai dicendo? ........ May I ask a favour ? I know that this statement is not routed to me, so perhaps it should not be me the one who says anything. But I am italian, so I perfectly know what it means. The debate is strong and fierce enough. Can we please avoid using such impolite ( just to use an euphemism ... ) phrases ? Can we please provide our different opinions without using so heavy expressions ? Thanks Are you going to complain again on the Sumo Mailing List that Sumo Forumers are treating you badly? Have I ? When ? What has your question to do with my post ? This time you may be the one who missed the point completely .... It was not so hard to understand: please read the following kind answer to my post, that shows that there are also people to which a polite remark (like mine was) can be done without causing them to get upset: Can we please provide our different opinions without using so heavy expressions ? Thanks Ho vissuto vicino al Napoli. Il mio italiano non Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paolo 0 Posted August 19, 2007 Can we please provide our different opinions without using so heavy expressions ? Thanks Ho vissuto vicino al Napoli. Il mio italiano non Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coo-cook 0 Posted August 20, 2007 Question his honor??? he has no honor left to question. only the shame he has brought to yokozuna rank is left for him. Yes, he should follow your so called honor code and should cut his belly with wooden knifes...huh? Wont happen....just shut up....or, cut your belly if you wish. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kotobaru 0 Posted August 21, 2007 (edited) At first, I would like to thank Jonosuke and all the members who provided actual information about the story. This Forum for me is the first source of information as I'm far from Japan. The Asagate is now worse than any soap opera. One day they have one feeling and the other day they suddenly found Edited August 21, 2007 by Kotobaru Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,660 Posted August 22, 2007 I thought about Kitanoumi Oyakata as more like neutral and cool minded person, but these last comments gave me a big disappointment about him. There isn't any leadership present in Sumo Assosation. The whole professional sumo world is thriving with occasional blows to right and left like a drunk! This is really sad to look at :((( Every organization needs a person who has courage to stand up and to tell everybody what he thinks of and to convince the others to follow his way. In Kyokai, it seam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
