Bealzbob 0 Posted September 21, 2007 A banzuke question for the more experienced among us. If the 2 sekiwake get what looks like likely kachi-koshi this basho and Ama is already on a double figure win from komusubi, will he be stuck at komusubi whatever happens ? Or is there precedent for an S2E rank with no S2W ? Seems a shame to deny him a deserved promotion ? If anyone knows how to use the new sumo database to make this type of query then that'd be even better :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oimeru 0 Posted September 21, 2007 A banzuke question for the more experienced among us. If the 2 sekiwake get what looks like likely kachi-koshi this basho and Ama is already on a double figure win from komusubi, will he be stuck at komusubi whatever happens ? Or is there precedent for an S2E rank with no S2W ? Seems a shame to deny him a deserved promotion ?If anyone knows how to use the new sumo database to make this type of query then that'd be even better :) There's certainly a precedent of rikishi staying at komusubi with as many as 10 wins: See here. With 11 wins, promotion to Sekiwake seems the standard procedure, even if it means there will be three Sekiwake. See for instance Wakanosato in 2003 here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bealzbob 0 Posted September 21, 2007 Thanks Oimeru. I do know that staying at komusubi has happened before but wasn't clear on whether promotion has happened too. So at least there is a chance for him to move up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,213 Posted September 21, 2007 Thanks Oimeru. I do know that staying at komusubi has happened before but wasn't clear on whether promotion has happened too. So at least there is a chance for him to move up. I suspect 10 wins won't do it, though. They've really been quite conservative with the extra ranks of late, so 11 wins or an Asasekiryu make-koshi are probably required. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Danjinoumi 9 Posted September 21, 2007 Looking at Oimeru's query, how about Musashiyama in Natsu 1931? A 10-1 yusho at K1e and stays at the same rank for the next basho. Now that's harsh! (You are going off-topic...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,213 Posted September 21, 2007 Looking at Oimeru's query, how about Musashiyama in Natsu 1931? A 10-1 yusho at K1e and stays at the same rank for the next basho. Now that's harsh! (You are going off-topic...) The previous basho (Kw 10-1 jun-yusho -> Ke) wasn't really a promotion either...with the East vs. West system in effect, it just meant that the West side had won the previous basho and was now switching to the East side. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doitsuyama 1,178 Posted September 21, 2007 Looking at Oimeru's query, how about Musashiyama in Natsu 1931? A 10-1 yusho at K1e and stays at the same rank for the next basho. Now that's harsh! :-P The previous basho (Kw 10-1 jun-yusho -> Ke) wasn't really a promotion either...with the East vs. West system in effect, it just meant that the West side had won the previous basho and was now switching to the East side. Hmm, seems like Asashosakari got it wrong here, a rare occasion. (You are going off-topic...) In those years the banzuke was only done two times a year, before the January and the May basho. The banzuke wasn't changed before March and October basho, and the sum of the wins for two basho was used for new banzuke. In January and March Musashiyama had 17 wins while sekiwake Tenryu had 16 wins, good enough to keep the ranks for both. Of course Musashiyama's rank didn't change even with a yusho in May (new banzuke only after the October basho). As Musashiyama had a sum of 18 wins for May and October, he got promoted to ozeki jumping over Tenryu who stayed sekiwake with 14 wins. Tenryu apparently was so unhappy about that, that he left the Kyokai and a whole lot of other rikishi followed him. The January 1932 basho had to be skipped, a new banzuke was done and a shorter basho with much smaller makuuchi and juryo was held in February. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bealzbob 0 Posted September 21, 2007 Thanks Oimeru. I do know that staying at komusubi has happened before but wasn't clear on whether promotion has happened too. So at least there is a chance for him to move up. I suspect 10 wins won't do it, though. They've really been quite conservative with the extra ranks of late, so 11 wins or an Asasekiryu make-koshi are probably required. Well if Asasekiryu goes MK then yes that's problem solved as he'll be demoted in the normal course of events. I do expect Ama to get at least 1 more victory anyway :-P And I think I'm not alone in hoping he yushos (You are going off-topic...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,213 Posted September 21, 2007 The previous basho (Kw 10-1 jun-yusho -> Ke) wasn't really a promotion either...with the East vs. West system in effect, it just meant that the West side had won the previous basho and was now switching to the East side. Hmm, seems like Asashosakari got it wrong here, a rare occasion. (You are going off-topic...) In those years the banzuke was only done two times a year, before the January and the May basho. The banzuke wasn't changed before March and October basho, and the sum of the wins for two basho was used for new banzuke. Sheesh. :-P Okay, strike "either" from my previous post, and it should be correct. The West side did win the January/March double-competition, after all*, and Kw->Ke wasn't really a promotion. But yeah, Ke->Ke after May was because there was no new banzuke at all, I forgot about that. * Gratuitous showing-off: By a score of 225 to 189. (Cribbed from Gans-san's website, though of course it's possible to just count up the wins, too.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Danjinoumi 9 Posted September 21, 2007 (edited) Thanks for the history lesson, Doitsu- and Asashosakari- sans. Edited September 21, 2007 by Danjinoumi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
