clarification desired + historical ichimon question

[Asashosakari 19,448]

I've recently been spending some time babelfishing my way through this website, which is rapidly becoming a favorite of mine. Anyway, two things I'm now wondering about:

1) For the longest time I've assumed that the pre-1965 basho system was properly refered to as ichimon-betsu so-atari, i.e. no bouts between rikishi from the same ichimon would take place. That being said, I got rather confused a few months ago when I ran into this old SML post that refered to it as keito-betsu so-atari, especially since our own glossary here gives this description:

keitou bessou atari, see kazoku-betsu so-atari

kazoku-betsu so-atari, rule preventing torikumi between rikishi from the same family, kettei-sen and tomoe-sen excluded

That didn't exactly jibe with my previous understanding. (I was stupid...)

Between the WWWJDIC and the above-mentioned site, I think I've finally figured it out myself, but I'd like our resident historical mavens to confirm and/or correct my understanding here, please: a) While "kazoku" refers to family in the personal sense, "keito" refers to groupings of an organizational nature (or something like that), and b) before 1965, each ichimon would consist of different historical "lineages" for torikumi purposes, and the rikishi from different line "groups" (kei) within the same ichimon were allowed to meet, hence keito-betsu and not ichimon-betsu. Is that more or less right (and the glossary is wrong), or am I completely off-base here? Babelfish can be so corrupting to one's thought processes...

2) Elsewhere on the site I ran into a reference to a "Hanakago-ichimon" consisting of Hanakago, Futagoyama and Kataonami-beya that existed briefly after 1974. What I don't quite understand from that brief blurb is whether this was an actual separation from Nishonoseki-ichimon (and subsequent rejoining), or if it should be considered more like factional infighting. Since I'd never heard of all this before at all, I'd greatly appreciate some historical background on what was happening at the time. :-)

Many thanks for any and all responses! (I am not worthy...)

Edited October 12, 2007 by Asashosakari

[Jonosuke 28]

Nishonoseki was never really bonded strongly as basically the grouping was more or less had one theme to it, i.e. anyone but Dewanoumi anytime there was a Kyokai election.

Geographically it was split into two when Hanakago moved to west in Asagaya district in Tokyo away from Ryogoku. The Hanakago group made up of Hanakago, Futagoyama and Kataonami developed another trait - i.e. they were not really against Dewanomi after a while like the rest of Nishonoseki, raison d'etre of the Ichimon. So basically the three left Nishonoseki and formed their Ichimon, Hanakago.

A while later there was a shisho changed at Nihonoseki which caused a division - and having two oyakata leaving to form their own heya, Taiho and Oshiogawa. Nishonoseki was inherited by Kongo. The man who mediated all this was Hanakago and soon his influence over the rest of Nishonoseki increased and the two Ichimon more or less merged back.

[Jonosuke 28]

More on Keito Betsu So Atari system.

Japanese Wikipedia divides the Torikiumi system based in six eras:

1. Prior to 1909 January

2. From 1909 June when the Ryogoku Kokugikan opened to 1931 (To-Zai East West System first phase)

3. From 1932 February to 1939 May (Keito Betsu So Atarim Affliation Based System Era, first phase)

4. From 1940 Jan to 1947 June (To-Zai System the second phase)

5. From 1947 November to 1964 November (Keito Betsu So Atari, the second phase)

6. From 1965 January to the current (Heya Betsu So Atari)

(1)

The wikipedia entry does not list any information for "Prior to 1909 January" but suffice to say in the Edo and early Meiji eras, Ozumo was still in flux and heya and ichimon tended to move around their affliation quite a bit between the basho. In the Edo Era, rikshi were sponsored by a regional shogunate and they were hired to compete in sumo tournaments. So based on where they were "hailed" from, their East and West side was determined. Often those who beloned to a group of shogunate related by blood or other relationship did not face each other.

In the Early Meji Era, the Tokyo Ozumo was held at the Eko-in Temple in Ryogoku for 8 or 9 days twice a year. In those days a leading ozeki most likely stayed at the top East position and that would have gone on until he retired and if there was a leading ozeki in West, then he would move over to the East position. So even though the East side rikishi never faced each other in a basho, that could have changed the following basho if he switched the side. But even in these days the same heya rikishi did not face each other but they may have within a loosely defined affliated group as Ichimon relationship was not really solidly established.

(2)

After the Ryogoku Kokugkan was opened, the Ozumo Association was able to expect more stable operation as they did not have to worry about weather like outdoors at the Eko-in and they were able to accomodate more spectators over 12,000 compared to several thousands in the Eko-in. All Makuuchi rikishi were clearly separated to East and West side and they did not face each other. The winner (yusho winner) was determined from the winning side (the one with more wins) so at the 1909 June basho, East side Takamiyama was awarded the top prize even though West side Tachiyama had one more win than Takamiyama as the East side had 85 points compared to the West's 59.

Dewanoumi beya became so powerful so if a rikishi who once was on the same side as Dewanoumi rikishi but got stronger could have been moved to the other side to balance out the sides.

(3)

As a result of the Shunji-en Incident in January 1932, the Kyokai could not set up a banzuke to follow the To-zai system having had all the West side Makuuchi rikishi desert (all except one was Dewanoumi beya rikishi).

However the Kyokai recognized certain heya to be in a symbiotic relationship and they avoided rikishi from those heya to face each other.

They were:

- Dewanoumi, Kasugano, Yamawake

- Takasago, Wakamatsu, Fujigane, Ooyama

- Kumegawa, Nishonoseki, Futagoyama

- Onogawa, Jinmaku

(3)

By the time time of Futabayama's supremacy . it became obvious that there were so many Dewanoumi/Kasugano Makuuchi rikishi that they could return to the East-West Side competition to generate more interests putting the Three Tatsunami Powerhouse (Futaba, Haguroyama, Nayoriiwa) against all Dewanoumi rikishi.

(4)

With the end of the war and attempting to revive the interest in Ozumo, the Kyokai decided to do away with the To-zai system as well introducing Sansho and yusho kettei-sen. There was some voice within the Kyokai to go with Heya Betsu So Atari system but they realized some heya had a strong bond with another so they decided to go with an non-affliated heya competition by preserving the Ichimon relationship.

Rikishi in the afffiliation and never faced each other were:

- Dewanoumi, Kasugano, Mihogaseki, Onogawa

- Takasago, Wakamatsu, Ooyama

- Isegahama, Kumagatani

- Tatsunami, Takekuma, Tokitsukaze (Futabayama left Tatsunami to found Futabayama Dojo and then to Tokitsukaze)

- Tokitsukaze, Izutsu

- Nishikijima, Michinoku, Isenoumi

- Nishonoseki, Matsugane

The following split from their parent heya and the rikishi never faced each other:

- From Nishonoseki, Hanakago, Sadogatake, Kataonami, Futagoyama

- From Tatsunami, Kasugayama

- From Takasago, Sanoyama

- From Takashima (later Tomozuna), Miyagino, Kumagatani

(5)

Even though they moved to more flexible Torikumi, they realized that the fans were demanding the yokozuna to face each other despite their affiliation and they were calling for such bouts as Taiho of Nishonoseki and Wakanohana of Hanakago. The Kyokai also was aware that there were unfairness as far as Torikumi bouts were concerned with Taiho and Kashiwado and they decided to go with all rikishi from different heya to face each other. And this is where we are now. The only those who do not face other are rikishi from the same heya or a relation such as brothers like Roho and Hakurozan even though they belong to a different heya. They can only meet each other in a yusho kettei sen. The same family members do not face each other in a hon-basho regular bout.

[Kotoseiya Yuichi 3]

The same family members do not face each other in a hon-basho regular bout.

Thanks for the excellent post! This family aspect is something I remember having asked about before, but I don't remember whether anyone knew the answer back then.

What kind of relation qualifies? Brothers, naturally. Cousins? Uncle & nephew? Other relatively close pairings I can't come up with. Are there precedents?

[Jonosuke 28]

What kind of relation qualifies? Brothers, naturally. Cousins? Uncle & nephew? Other relatively close pairings I can't come up with. Are there precedents?

Brothers, cousins and uncles & nephews all included.

The widely regarded precedent for this rule occured on day 12 at the 1963 November basho. On this day the last Makushita bout was between the two 3 win and 2 loss record rikishi, Makushita West 2 Hasegawa of Sadogatake beya and Makushita West 6 Shikinohana of Miyagino beya.

Actually they were uncle and nephew. Hasegawa's mother was Shikinohana's older sister. Some oyakata heard about it and the bout was promptly cancelled. Instead both rikishi had their bout on the day 14 against another opponent who already had six bouts at the point.

Despite then Miyagino oyakata (former yokozuna Yoshibayama) having previously contacted the Shimpan Group not to have them face each other, in fact both had faced each other twice before, each time Shikinohana winning.

Since this incident there was no such bout occurred during a hon-basho.

[Asashosakari 19,448]

Many, many thanks for all the detailed responses, Jonosuke! (I am not worthy...)

[Kotonosato 1]

Many, many thanks for all the detailed responses, Jonosuke! (Hugging...)

Yeah, those were great, Jono. ;-)

I'm not very familiar with the search function/archive system here, but if there is any way those posts can be tagged or otherwise preserved for posterity, that would be an asset to all of us.

[Asashosakari 19,448]

Since I already titled this thread "historical ichimon question", I suppose I may ask another one along the same lines. :-P I realize things used to be a lot more in flux than they are nowadays (as Jonosuke already mentioned above as well), but perhaps there's a somewhat concrete answer to be had anyway: When did each ichimon begin to exist?

I suppose for Tokitsukaze-ichimon that would be 1942 when Futabayama-dojo was founded, or perhaps 1946 when it was renamed to Tokitsukaze-beya...at which point did Futabayama "officially" break away from Tatsunami-ichimon? (If it's even possible to put an exact date on that...)

For Nishonoseki-ichimon (old but still highly interesting historical summary here), I guess it traces back to the heya's re-establishment in 1935...or back even further?

For Takasago-ichimon and Dewanoumi-ichimon...should we date the ichimon back to when the main heya was founded in each case, or are the ichimons considered "younger" than that?

Tatsunami and Isegahama, I'm totally lost...all I remember is this post about the rengo-fication of the two ichimons, dating that event back to 1945-ish. But obviously the individual ichimons are older than that...

And lastly, as I've continued my recent assault on the Japanese Wikipedia (among other sites), I ran into an oblique mention of an Ikazuchi-ichimon on the entry for Ikazuchi-beya which probably doesn't ring a bell for most people these days but was actually a fairly powerful stable in the late 19th/very early 20th century. I guess that the group of beya that sprang from Ikazuchi-beya went under piece-by-piece in early Showa (i.e. 1920s to 1930s), and the remaining rikishi eventually ended up in Isegahama-beya (?) via an old Kagamiyama-beya if I've understood things correctly from Shivare and Wikipedia (Kagamiyama-beya entry)... Does that mean the Ikazuchi group should be considered sort-of an ancestor (or sibling?) to Isegahama-ichimon, or did Isegahama-beya just get lucky to pick up the remnants but didn't hold any particular connection to those old stables?

As always, my eternal gratitude for any responses that can help clear up this headache-inducing stuff for me. :-S

[Asashosakari 19,448]

Guess I might as well re-use this thread for another obscure question...

Was there some kind of ban on the creation of new heya in the 1960s, or a conscious effort to weed out "weak" stables? Working through some data on the ever-interesting Shivare website, I noticed that almost a quarter of all existing stables at the time (8 of 33) closed during a period of just a year and a half, from mid-1963 to the end of 1964. And that along with almost no new stables...three new heya had opened in 1962, and then only one new stable would be created in the next eight years (Kokonoe-beya in 1967). We just learned from Doitsuyama's division size posting that the number of rikishi dropped sharply in the second half of the 1960s which I guess might explain why no new stables were opened during that period, but all those heya shutdowns already happened while the number of active rikishi was still increasing... It shows up pretty clearly on the second graph I posted in that thread, too.

Edited December 16, 2007 by Asashosakari

[Jonosuke 28]

I really don't believe the Kyokai discourged any oyakata from splitting away during the period in question but perhaps it was a point of the history in which there was more of consolidation than anything else.

I also think it was at a point of time when there were not many retired rikishi who were eager or be potential to venture into opening up a new heya. Consider that those retiring joined Ozumo right at the end of WWII or soon after. Most retiring rikishi were without sufficient money and resources. Japan became more economically active right after their retiring.

Why some heya folded is more of circumstance than anything else but interesting nonethless. And it is somtimes enlightening to know why it did when it did. Another special factor in 1964 was that the Kyokai was to institute the Heya Betsu So-Atari system starting frm the Hatsu basho of 1965 and that realization hit many "weak" heya oyakata who have been rather protected within the warm confines of Ichimon and were soon to be facing agaist major heya with more stronger rikishi. In fact three heya folded after the 1964 November basho for that reason (as well as the two of the oyakawa retiring from the Kyokai then).

Let's check each one from July 1963.

1, Onaruto - July 1963

The heya was launched up in 1960 by Asahiyama beya's Futaseyama (well known for biting Haguroyama's thumb and losing). Though the highest he ever reached was Maegashira 2, he was a mainstay of Asahiyama beya. When his former shisho, former sekiwake Kozuzan passed away suddenly at the age of 44 years old, Futaseyama merged his Onaruto beya to his former heya, Asahiyama, and adopted Asahiyama name. So for this reason Onaruto perished but its legacy was carried over by Asahiyama. In a sense then it did not really fold.

2. Tatekawa - November 1963

The heya was launched by Nishikijima beya's Hiodoshi (with almost undechiperable kanji) in 1960. Hidooshi was even closely resembling an outstanding rikishi in his active days, barely reaching Maegashira 10. However around the time of his retirement in 1958, Nishikijima beya was rather in disarray with no credible rikishi around. After their oyakata, former Maegashira 1 Orochiyama passed away suddenly in 1956, it was taken over by gyoji Kimura Kesazo. Hidooshi fared no better in his Tatekawa beya and decided to close down after two years. With no promising rikishi in sight, he had no one to take over the heya.

3. Sanoyama - March 1964

Agains they had a very brief existence in sumo history. Sanoyama Myoseki traditionally belongs to Takasago beya. It was so when former Maegashira Asahibiki was permitted to launch his own Sanoyama beya in 1955. Asahibiki passed away in February 1960 and all his recruits were absorbed back to Takasago beya. One of the rikishi was Kuninobori and another was his own recruit Kurikeyama. Kurikeyama was only 175 cm and 88 kg but became a very popular rikishi displaying spirited sumo.

Kuninobori inherited Sanoyama Myoseki when he retired in 1961. Kuninobori took Kurikeyama to re-launch his old shisho's Sanoyama beya in July 1961. But the heya's fortune paralleled that of Kurikeyama. Kurikeyama reached as high as Maegashira 5 but with his small physique and rather serious knee injury, he left ozumo at the age of 25 years old. With no one in sight to revive the heya, Kuninobori decided to close down the heya and return to Takasago beya.

One tidbit, Kuninobori as Sanoyama oyakata was once demoted from his Judge duty as he could not walk up to the dohyo for a mono-ii conference suffering a heavy hang-over from the previous night's drinking binge.

4. Nishikijima - March 1964

As discussed on Tatekawa above, former gyoji Kimura Kesazo folded the heya without having any immediate successor to the heya. I assume former Nishikijima beya sekitori Hidooshi could have inherited it one time but after folding his own Tatekawa beya, he was in no mood to operate another heya, especially the one with no future.

One time former Maegashria 1 Kashiwado Hidetake (yokozuna Kashiwado's shisho) was with Nishikijima beya (he actually belonged to Isenoumi beya but his shisho passed away and he was "loaned" to Nishikijima then). For this reason even during the days of Keito Betsu So-Atari system (prio to the Heya Betsu system), there were no bout arranged between NIshikijima and Isenoumi beya rikishi.

NIshikijima beya was absorbed by Tokitsukaze beya.

5. Furiwake beya - March 1964

This was a heya lauched by yokozuna Asashio (3rd) after his retirement in September 1962. Actually Asashio retired after the 1962 Hatsu basho and could have taken Furiwake Myoseki right away but he decided to keep one generation Toshiyori given to a former yokozuna. Asashio was lending his Furiwake myoseki to his good friend Matsunobori and Matsunobori did not have an immediate share he could move on to at the time. Subsequently Oyama Myoseki opened up due to the shisho'death, Matsunobori took over the heya and Asashio assumed Furiwake.

Not exactly certain why Asashio decided to found a new heya as he had more or less of understanding he would take over Takasago beya one day. Seeing the landscape of Ozumo at the time, he quickly folded Furiwake heya and returned to Takasago beya. He inherited Takasago beya in 1971 and raised Konishiki, Mitoizumi and the current Takasago oyakata.

6. Oitekaza beya - January 1965

Former ozeki Shimizugawa Motokichi of Hatachiyama beya split from his heya to launch Oitekaze beya in 1937. This old Oitekaze beya has an indirect relation to the current Oitekaze beya formed by former Maegashira Daishoyama. Daishoyama married to the oldest daughter of former Maegashira Oiteyama (10th Oitekaze oyakata) and exchanged his Myoseki of Nakagawa with his father-in-law. Oiteyama was Shimizugawa's direct recruit.

In this closure Shimizugawa was leaving the Kyokai on his mandatory retirement at the time and seeing the Heya Betsu So Atari system was to come in stream, he decided to make a clean break from the Kyokai as he saw no potential successor to the heya. His recruites were absorbed by Tatsunami beya.

7. Onogawa beya - January 1965

There is so much history behind Onogawa that it's hard to decide where to start but one consistent thread is its relationship with Jinmaku beya as there were several times one would close and the other would take in the other's rikishi and the other open up and take over again.

Perhaps we could start from January 1934 when Onogawa beya closed and Kinkazan, Ononishiki Jinnosuke went over to Jinmaku beya. In June 1938 the Jinmaku oyakata passed away and Onogawa beya started up again with Kinkazan, Ononishiki and Aobayama) and then in 1940 Kinkazan retired from active sumo and became Takasaki oyakata.

In January 1942 Aoboaya inherited Jinmaku Myoseki and almost all rikishi would go to his (new) heya Jinmaku. Also at the same time Ononishiki Jinnosuke retired to become Onogawa and continued the operation with one remaining lower ranking rikishi. In January 1944 Onogawa beya closed and in June 1945 Ononishiki Jinnosuke left the Kyokai. In June 1947 Jinmaku beya officially "closed" and became a part of Dewanoumi Ichimon.

However Kinkazan who took over Onogawa Myoseki decided to take the remnant of Jinmaku beya and renamed it to Onogawa. So from 1947 to January 1965 Kinkazan managed Onogawa beya. Kinkaza was facing his mandatory retirement from the Kyokai and seeing the Heya So-Atari system, he decided to fold the heya rather than having someone else to inherite the heya.

8. Minatogawa beya - January 1965

Former Maegashira 1 Tokachiiwa retired after the 1951 May basho and two years later he decided to go independent from Nishonoseki beya. He was able to develop Dairyu to Makuuchi rikishi (to Maegashira 19) but he wasn't able to do well developing any other rikishi.

With the introduction of Heya Betsu So-Atari system, he realized that his time was up and decided to return to Nishonoseki beya. As the most senior oyakata within his Ichimonin 1975 he took over the helm of Nishonoseki beya by becoming Nishonoseki oyakata when there was a succession fight between Taiho and Oshiogawa which lasted over a period of 16 months.

The history of Ozumo is really fascinating.

[Fay 1,677]

:-D (Showing respect...) :-D