Kotooshu

[_the_mind_ 0]

Osh is simply in a zone.

We shall see.

agreed, he hasnt won 10 in over a year, and now that he has, everyone is acting like he is a cake walk from yokozuna. and that his sumo is just changed now and will stay that way. ....his history doesnt suggest such a thing, and anyone who thinks 11-0 automatically undoes more then a year of unspectacular sumo needs to keep watching. im not convinved at all. even if he manages to yusho this time, next basho is the real test, he hasnt really had two "good" bashos in a row since his promotion (i dont recall it at least). this basho is an exception to his sumo, not the new rule. "simply in the zone" sounds exactly right.

Edited May 21, 2008 by _the_mind_

[HenryK 38]

Mr. Hardy's take on things:

Nice that there is such a competent English-writing journalist covering ozumo.

[Ikh Mongol Dagvadorj 0]

Judge for yourself:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=D_-DyLKm0Og

with good grip, giant Kootoshyu overpowers Asashoryu.

beat Yokozuna, be yokozuna......so davai kolyany.

[That-Satsu-Guy 1]

After that? Ama? Toyonoshima? Hokutoriki? Chiyotaikai should be on the list but he won't be any competition in his current state and with a 3-8 score they may not bother.

I can't see them skipping Aminishiki; he's 7-4 and would be 15th in line among Kotooshu's potential opponents anyway. Exchanging Chiyotaikai for Toyonoshima is pretty possible, though, in which case I presume that Kotooshu-Ama will become the senshuraku bout...

I believe they said it will be day 12 Hakuho, day 13 Toyonoshima, day 14 Ama, and day 15 Chiyotaikai.

Magic Eight Ball says, "Hakuho is toast and it's Kotooshu's yusho."

[hidenohana 0]

I believe they said it will be day 12 Hakuho, day 13 Toyonoshima, day 14 Ama, and day 15 Chiyotaikai.

Day 15 Chiyotaikai?

A grand send-off for the Ozeki?

[Ogi 0]

I think,Ama and Hakuho beating Kotooshu and Asashoryu losing to Hakuho yusho winner Hakuho 14-1, Asashoryu and Kotooshu finishing whit 13-2 .

Another one is , Kotooshu

[Sashohitowa 6]

I'm proven wrong... Oh, I am really glad to be proven wrong.. (Foot in mouth...) ;-)

Still, I don't believe he will get the yusho. But what he has done this basho is enough, and is very pleasant for watching. And makes me very glad. (Holiday feeling...) (Holiday feeling...)

[Sashohitowa 6]

I read a lot of words that are ??? to me in this topic. ;-)

So who can tell me what's :

- Kaloyan

- zensho

- tsunatori

Thanks in advance.

That was a very good joke (even if it was not intentional)!!! Kaloyan, zensho and tsunatori in one topic - funny, indeed (Holiday feeling...)))

[ilovesumo 12]

I wish him good luck. He works hard (like many others too), so why not him, now, that he has the Chance. Gooo Oshu!. (Holiday feeling...)

I, personally hope for a Maegashira Yusho (all the time) - let's say from Kyokutenho or Tochinonada, Iwakiyama - nice guys I would love to see happy with the cup- and, it would be a nice thing to have somebody else hanging under the roof of the Kokugikan ;-)

I have nothing against the 2 Yokozuna and the one in the Yusho race should win the Yusho who is currently the best- for what ever reason.

But say what you want, the one who deserves it too is Ama...he just has to win a few more bouts (Holiday feeling...)

Want him to win a Yusho one day.

Back to topic- good Luck Osh.

[salle 11]

.. However this basho is not crucial, it is the next (no, not in terms of tsunatori ...)

Absolutely! Not next basho only, but few more in the near future.

.. he hasnt won 10 in over a year, and now that he has, everyone is acting like he is a cake walk from yokozuna. and that his sumo is just changed now and will stay that way.

Since ozeki promotion he didn't start a basho with more than 3 wins in a row so even 4-0 was change to better. That he is 11-0 today doesn't mean more than that. 11-4 is still possible and if he ends with 11-4 it can be considered poor performance for him no matter it's improvement over his past records.

....his history doesnt suggest such a thing, and anyone who thinks 11-0 automatically undoes more then a year of unspectacular sumo needs to keep watching.

11-0 undoes nothing. It only shows much improved performance this basho until day 11 and only this basho and only until day 11

.. even if he manages to yusho this time, next basho is the real test, he hasnt really had two "good" bashos in a row since his promotion (i dont recall it at least). this basho is an exception to his sumo, not the new rule. "simply in the zone" sounds exactly right.

You are right indeed. Kotooshu hasn't really had any good "single" basho since his promotion. He was always beaten during first days by presumably weaker opponents. Compared to his past this basho is indeed an exception. Maybe he is "simply in the zone" maybe he can sustain that exception and convert it to a rule.

What I do believe is that during last year or so there were signs that he is trying hard to improve. Not just hanging around. Maybe I'm the only one, but I do believe there is a trend going upwards. Not just random spike. You never know indeed when there will be break point and the trend will turn down. Could be next basho, could be tomorrow.

I really hope however Kotooshu will keep that momentum. If nothing else I am born and spent my entire life so far in Bulgaria. I should support my compatriots after all. But I am not going to excuse or praise him just because of that. If next basho Kotooshu doesn't start with solid sumo and smash his opponents during first days I will be the the first one to blame him.

[Kuroyama 715]

Osh's birth name: Stefanov Mahlyanov Kaloyan

You are misled by the NSK's wonky treatment of European names. His name is Kaloyan Stefanov Mahlyanov. The Japanese page has his name in the correct Bulgarian order of given name, patronymic, family name. (カロヤン・ステファノフ・マハリャノフ -- Karoyan Sutefanofu Maharyanofu) But on the English pages for all rikishi they move the name listed last to the first position. This puts Japanese names in Western order, but it screws up names that were Western in the first place.

The name is a Greek compound that entered Bulgarian a very long time ago. "Yan" is "John" as Maxim notes; "Kalo" is Greek "kalos", meaning handsome.

Edit: Curiously, they also did this to Roho, Hakurozan, Wakanoho, and Kokkai, but not to Baruto or Tochinoshin.

Edited May 21, 2008 by Kuroyama

[Asashosakari 19,661]

You are misled by the NSK's wonky treatment of European names. His name is Kaloyan Stefanov Mahlyanov. The Japanese page has his name in the correct Bulgarian order of given name, patronymic, family name. (カロヤン・ステファノフ・マハリャノフ -- Karoyan Sutefanofu Maharyanofu) But on the English pages for all rikishi they move the name listed last to the first position. This puts Japanese names in Western order, but it screws up names that were Western in the first place.

Right, I used to think that that's exactly the way they did it, but I'm not so sure anymore...as evidenced by the Baruto/Tochinoshin cases you've discovered (Edit: They also got Sentoryu correct way back when, but not Yamato), and the fact that Mongolian names (AFAIK) are in surname-first order on both Japanese and English pages, I have a feeling the web guys are simply guessing as to the "correct" Western order of foreign names, assuming there's any conscious decision-making process in the first place. I suspect it may not be terribly helpful for Japanese fans either that the Japanese pages aren't standardized to surname-first order.

Edited May 21, 2008 by Asashosakari

[Kotoseiya Yuichi 3]

I wasn't aware Kotooshu is my namesake. ;-)

[sekihiryu 51]

Henry K - you need to edit the title of this thread: 8-0 and going strong. Try "11-0 and dominating"

[HenryK 38]

Henry K - you need to edit the title of this thread: 8-0 and going strong. Try "11-0 and dominating"

Will do. ;-)

[Mark Buckton 1]

Osh's birth name: Stefanov Mahlyanov Kaloyan

You are misled by the NSK's wonky treatment of European names. His name is Kaloyan Stefanov Mahlyanov. The Japanese page has his name in the correct Bulgarian order of given name, patronymic, family name. (カロヤン・ステファノフ・マハリャノフ -- Karoyan Sutefanofu Maharyanofu) But on the English pages for all rikishi they move the name listed last to the first position. This puts Japanese names in Western order, but it screws up names that were Western in the first place.

The name is a Greek compound that entered Bulgarian a very long time ago. "Yan" is "John" as Maxim notes; "Kalo" is Greek "kalos", meaning handsome.

Edit: Curiously, they also did this to Roho, Hakurozan, Wakanoho, and Kokkai, but not to Baruto or Tochinoshin.

don't think the NSK have much say at all on that page - NTT make / update / produce it. Know a guy who knows the guy kind of thing.

[Jonosuke 28]

I really hope however Kotooshu will keep that momentum. If nothing else I am born and spent my entire life so far in Bulgaria.

Is he making any news there yet?

I remember around the time of his ozeki promotion, JSTV (Japanese satelite TV company in Europe) gave his parents the dish and receiver so I am sure his folks are watching but I was just wondering who else.

But I do agree with you. Definitely the trend is an uptick.

[Kuroyama 715]

I suspect it may not be terribly helpful for Japanese fans either that the Japanese pages aren't standardized to surname-first order.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Japanese were much more accustomed to Western name order than the other way around. It's quite common for Japanese schoolchildren to learn English. How many junior high schools in English-speaking countries teach Japanese?

don't think the NSK have much say at all on that page - NTT make / update / produce it. Know a guy who knows the guy kind of thing.

Perhaps. NSK's copyright notice is positioned so that it looks to be associated with the content; NTT's notice looks to be associated with the surrounding frame. Or maybe NTT is responsible for the English translation regardless of where the material came from? Not that it matters much; this isn't so horribly blameworthy that the culprit must be brought to answer for his misdeeds. ;-) (Holiday feeling...)

[Asashosakari 19,661]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Japanese were much more accustomed to Western name order than the other way around.

No, by "not standardized" I mean that the foreign rikishi profiles as a group aren't done in a standardized way, not just that they're handled by a different standard to the profiles of the Japanese rikishi. The Mongolian profiles are surname-first, while the "Western" ones are mostly (but not all; the aforementioned Yamato is one exception I've noticed) given-name-first. I doubt that the average Japanese would know which part of "Mahlyanov Kaloyan Stefanov" is the surname if you leave it unclear what name order is being used in that.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Asashosakari

[Oimeru 0]

Right, I used to think that that's exactly the way they did it, but I'm not so sure anymore...as evidenced by the Baruto/Tochinoshin cases you've discovered (Edit: They also got Sentoryu correct way back when, but not Yamato), and the fact that Mongolian names (AFAIK) are in surname-first order on both Japanese and English pages, I have a feeling the web guys are simply guessing as to the "correct" Western order of foreign names, assuming there's any conscious decision-making process in the first place. I suspect it may not be terribly helpful for Japanese fans either that the Japanese pages aren't standardized to surname-first order.

With Mongolian names, from what I know (Mongolian forumers please correct me), there are no real surnames anyway. The name listed second is the given name, yes. The first name is usually a genitival form that works like a patronymic (father's name), in mongolian often with an -yn ending, which seems to get dropped under romanization.

Also, the "western" order is with the surname coming last ist certainly not set in stone. Hungarians have it the other way around, for instance. I'm not sure if there are other European countries doing the same thing.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Oimeru

[Asysanyama 0]

Magic Eight Ball says, "Hakuho is toast and it's Kotooshu's yusho."

(Jumping in ecstasy...)

[Harry 67]

You can change the title again!!!

[Jejima 1,414]

My viewing (over the web-stream) of the win over Hakuho looked as though there was a hint of henka about it...

But I guess the Yusho is now Kotooshu's to lose - the first Yusho to be possibly won by a European.

I'm guessing that he will be asked to do more 'straight forward' sumo next basho (I.e. no henkas) if he is to be considered for Yokozuna promotion.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Jejima

[Kuroyama 715]

With Mongolian names, from what I know (Mongolian forumers please correct me), there are no real surnames anyway. The name listed second is the given name, yes. The first name is usually a genitival form that works like a patronymic (father's name), in mongolian often with an -yn ending, which seems to get dropped under romanization.

That's like Norwegian names, which end in -sen or -dottir, depending on gender. I think it's safe to call it a surname when there's nothing but a patronymic. (Americans of Norwegian descent often have either the patronymic of the immigrant as a permanent surname, or use the name of the farm where their family originated.)

Also, the "western" order is with the surname coming last ist certainly not set in stone. Hungarians have it the other way around, for instance. I'm not sure if there are other European countries doing the same thing.

Magyars are an entirely different kettle of fish, unrelated linguistically to their neighbors and with distinct cultural traditions even after having been associated with the surrounding countries for centuries.

To drag this back on-topic -- He won. I like to see him win. But did he really have to henka? (Even more startling is that both yokozuna fell for the same kind of thing one after the other.) Sure, he turned it into forward-moving sumo so it ended in a yorikiri, but still...

[Sokkenaiyama 81]

That was a huge henka! What do you mean a "hint" of a henka?!