Hakuho vs. Ama

[Ossetian Yokozuna 1]

Yes, he is Mighty Mouse.

[Sokkenaiyama 81]

That was a henka, though.

[kame 0]

that was quality sumo. ya, a henka as in a changed tachiai approach as pointed out by the Japanese announcers. far from an Ossetian Shuffle tho.

[Ossetian Yokozuna 1]

Henka?

Ok.

Any rikishi should be ready for henka muvement.

( In real battle you can not to say - "It was a henka". )

[Sokkenaiyama 81]

That's true. But it still doesn't mean I have to like it. And it does have direct implications in the yusho race.

[Ogi 0]

This is just the foretaste Osetian Yokozuna (hm, we have actually a Yokozuna from Osetian: D?). This is the fault that Wakanoho made. Your opponent with mouse to compare is a sign that the Rikishi also not psychologically mature enough for the fight. Learn from Roho. Wakanoho also makes the same mistake as Roho. Another couple throw more and he will be a silent fish in the water. ;-) (Kensho parade...) (First prize...) (Second prize...) (Third prize...)

[Peterao 3]

That was a henka, though.

The henka had no bearing on the outcome. If anything, Ama was at a disadvantage after doing it. And he still won.

Props where it's due.

[Kaikitsune Makoto 209]

That was a henka, though.

The henka had no bearing on the outcome. If anything, Ama was at a disadvantage after doing it. And he still won.

Props where it's due.

Yes and Ama also did very well to keep Hakuho off the belt while getting his own left uwate. After Hakuho's shitatenage attempt Ama showed his athletic ability by still keeping Hakuho off while circling away to do the throw. Awesome sumo.

[Harry 67]

I say it was NOT henka. It was just quick and clever. Ama still has Hak's number.

[Sokkenaiyama 81]

That was a henka, though.

The henka had no bearing on the outcome. If anything, Ama was at a disadvantage after doing it. And he still won.

Props where it's due.

Yes and Ama also did very well to keep Hakuho off the belt while getting his own left uwate. After Hakuho's shitatenage attempt Ama showed his athletic ability by still keeping Hakuho off while circling away to do the throw. Awesome sumo.

I respect your analysis, KM, but this henka had everything to do with the outcome. It was this henka that allowed Ama to keep Hakuho away from the mawashi. Of course, there are other ways Hakuho could have won this fight, but the henka did affect the outcome. And even if it hadn't, I still don't have to like it, do I?

P.S. I never said Ama wasn't a good wrestler, he is an AWESOME wrestler.

[Kaikitsune Makoto 209]

I respect your analysis, KM, but this henka had everything to do with the outcome. It was this henka that allowed Ama to keep Hakuho away from the mawashi. Of course, there are other ways Hakuho could have won this fight, but the henka did affect the outcome. And even if it hadn't, I still don't have to like it, do I?

P.S. I never said Ama wasn't a good wrestler, he is an AWESOME wrestler.

I'll rephrase. The henka didn't bring Ama any advantage as neither had left hand outside grip after tachi-ai and Ama beat Hakuho from totally equal stance. In this way henka didn't effect the outcome. If you assume that Hakuho would have been better at tachi-ai than Ama automatically, then I disagree as Ama is also very skillful getting a good position at the tachi-ai. In overall Hakuho was outskilled in this bout. The only way one could say henka had an effect in the outcome is to assume that a normal tachi-ai would have put Ama in inferior position automatically which I don't believe.

You don't have to like henka. Never have I said that and I dislike henka very much too. I don't have to like Wakanoho one bit. My number one dislike rikishi for sure. Wakanoho did henka today too btw. Oh I was so happy to see him eat dirt after that uwatehineri. Maybe he smashed his own dishes now.

[sekihiryu 51]

good stuff. it was in the bounds of acceptability for me, it wasn't an Ossetian shuffle as someone else pointed out, it was quick shifty manoeuvre that still allowed for a good battle to ensue - no one went flat on their face with in 2 secs.... Hakuho was caught somewhat napping and was rattled from the "get go"^{TM - Murray Johnson} he didn't really recover and the austere and confident sumo that has been evident from the swaggering Hakuho vapourised in an instance, brilliant! made this basho really exciting now.

I was one of 10 people who picked Ama in 'seki - toto' today (not that it helped me!), I had a feeling, also very glad I dropped Hakuho out of my Sumo game line up too.

[Sokkenaiyama 81]

You see to-may-to, I see to-mah-to, and we agree to disagree. Still, the basho just became a lot more exciting with Hak's loss. Good to finally see Kotooshu do some sumo.

[Ossetian Yokozuna 1]

You are all speacking many true things.

It is impossible to dispute all of theese.

( Ok.

I am glad that you ARE GLAD for WAKANOHOs loosing.

Everybody has rights to has a little joys. )

[vpl 0]

I think that the henka had definitely an impact on the outcome.

So far Hakuho's wins have mostly come by hitting his opponents hard at tachi-ai and bringing them out of balance with that. After that it is not difficult for Hakuho to win.

So the advantage that the henka brought for Ama was not giving a good grip, but hindering Hakuho's ability to do his sumo. So it was an exceptional henka, it did not shorten the bout but instead made it last longer. Without it probably hakuho would have won via hatakikomi in 2 seconds.

[HenryK 38]

Why did Hakuho try in vain to get his left-hand grip on the mawashi, rather than going for yorikiri without a grip?

This played readily into Ama's hands.

Btw, I was really impressed with how Asasekiryu outmaneuvered Wakanoho. And for Asashoryu things seem to come together in time. Kisenosato shows that he's still lacking in the consistency department.

[Bataa 0]

Please.Do not post a topic with spoiler title....i was just gonna watch it on youtube but made a quick beforehand visit to the forum,then BANG.... AMA no kachi ........zzzzzzzzz (In a state of confusion...)

[hidenohana 0]

Please.Do not post a topic with spoiler title....i was just gonna watch it on youtube but made a quick beforehand visit to the forum,then BANG.... AMA no kachi ........zzzzzzzzz :-/

Thank god I had forgotten what 'no kachi' meant! (In a state of confusion...)

Though they spoiled the surprise of the Wakanaho utchari,yesterday!

Remember,first toyasuko then sumoforum....

Edited May 20, 2008 by hidenohana

[Babaryutaikai 1]

Why did Hakuho try in vain to get his left-hand grip on the mawashi, rather than going for yorikiri without a grip?

This played readily into Ama's hands.

Btw, I was really impressed with how Asasekiryu outmaneuvered Wakanoho. And for Asashoryu things seem to come together in time. Kisenosato shows that he's still lacking in the consistency department.

Seemed like Hakuho was trying to counter Ama's attempted henka, but couldn't figure out how to handle it.

Asasekiryu WAS exceptionally good and I'm happy that he won - he is one of my faves. I like Wakanoho, but I wonder how many dishes he wanted to break today. Seriously, he did look like he wanted to cry, but that's okay. He's young and doesn't realize that he has to earn his tantrums.

As for Asashoryu - fingers crossed now with his aches and pains...............

[Jakusotsu 5,987]

Indeed. What do you want here when you don't want to know? (In a state of confusion...)

[sekihiryu 51]

mods please merge this with the other thread started by OY - no need for two threads about the same bout. Cheers!

[HenryK 38]

mods please merge this with the other thread started by OY - no need for two threads about the same bout. Cheers!

Sorry, overlooked this.

[paolo 0]

This topic is interesting, but I am missing the main point: why is Ama's tachiai considered a henka ? Aminishiki vs Hakuho last basho was a henka, Kotooshu vs Kisenosato in this basho was a henka. But Ama has had more or less a "side tachiai", his head was left of Hakuho's head while his chest was on the right. Sure he was very quick because he needed to have a grip of his own before Hakuho could get one. He knew that he is 40 kilos lighter and he cannot afford a frontal tachiai, so he decided for a special side tachiai.... Again, why is it a henka ? What should Ama have done ? Wait to be pushed back by Hakuho or thrown by his grip ? His only reasonable attitude was to have a grip and try to move Hakuho around before being imprisoned by his superior strenght, and this is what he did, with courage and determination. No coward behaviour, no desire of avoiding the fight. Well done, Ama ! Together with his fantastic final move in his Wakanoho bout, these are the two bouts of the basho up to now....

[Peterao 3]

Moreover, why the need to make excuses for Hakuho? I think that henka is Perfectly Acceptable against a yokozuna, since a yokozuna should be good enough to make anyone who henka's pay for it dearly.

Rikishi only do henka because it works. Henka haters should really get on the case of the rikishi who lose to henka. Once the belly-flopping stops, so too will the henka.

[Manekineko 200]

If you can find a clip of this bout with Japanese commentators... I think one of them got so excited that at first he said "Asashoryu won!" and then corrected himself to "Ama, Ama won".