Nagoya Basho Viewing

[Sakana 46]

Enough with "doesn

Edited July 15, 2008 by Sakana

[Sokkenaiyama 81]

...

RIP Frenchies. You will be missed.

[ragerkawa 0]

actually kaiguma, a Q if I may? (as I have never been to NYC)

Does the MMA ask visitors to refrain from taking photos or are they permitted? (Shaking head...)

They do allow pics. They don't allow flash or video, and they don't allow photography in special exhibitions. Tripods are allowed on certain days.

[Fujisan 533]

There's no way I'll enter my credit card number there.

It's done via Paypal, the recipient doesn't see your account/card data.

And if you dont have a credit card or bank account for that matter?

[Jakusotsu 6,049]

And if you dont have a credit card or bank account for that matter?

Go ask your mom.

[Mark Buckton 1]

Enough with "doesn

[Mark Buckton 1]

actually kaiguma, a Q if I may? (as I have never been to NYC)

Does the MMA ask visitors to refrain from taking photos or are they permitted? (Shaking head...)

They do allow pics. They don't allow flash or video, and they don't allow photography in special exhibitions. Tripods are allowed on certain days.

thank you

[Sokkenaiyama 81]

Put in black and white terms, Info Sumo is trying to make money by selling something he does not own.

Why should any of us make the effort to produce an original when copying is so much easier and can still offer the chance to turn a profit?

Info Sumo has demonstrated complete disregard for clearly stated requests to respect ownership of images / property as is seen in the 'old images wanted' thread; (he advertises the fact that he took pics under such conditions as follows) the NSK museum has more than a few signs in English and Japanese (atop display cases) asking specifically that photos not be taken.

While technically you are right, I still think Info-Sumo is doing a lot of people a great service. I can't get any NHK or Sky TV or whatever it was that was broadcasting sumo, and Eurosport died a while ago, so there's practically no way for me to see the action, except the low quality stream.

If the costs for hosting and the TV subscription are those mentioned earlier (over

Edited July 15, 2008 by Sokkenaiyama

[Mark Buckton 1]

please don't pretend Info Sumo and Sakana (one and the same I understand) are modern day Robin Hood type figures (Nezumi Koso? types) the 5 euros is going to feed.

[Sokkenaiyama 81]

please don't pretend Info Sumo and Sakana (one and the same I understand) are modern day Robin Hood type figures (Nezumi Koso? types) the 5 euros is going to feed.

Would YOU pay

[Mark Buckton 1]

you believe the figures posted without question? In all honesty I have no real idea the figure I put into sumo, following, reporting, work with SFM each year but it is far from miniscule i can assure you that.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Mark Buckton

[Sakana 46]

Mark has a point here. I have just copied/pasted the informations given by Info-Sumo about the cost. He's right : some proofs are welcome.Now, Mark, you're wrong : I'm not here to be the advocate of Info-Sumo. Just here to write my opinion and my interrogations.I feel unease like you with this "you-have-to-donate-to-watch-videos" problem. I'm just searching for a solution to this issue. I asked Info-Sumo if he couldn't be better to let the videos available for everyone, and give some videos bonuses to those who have helped the site with a donation. So, in simple words : come back to what it was with a minor modification. I just disagree with some ideas like : "it's only for money" and "he has no rights". When I wrote it was a false argument, I mean that the REAL problem is not the rights (nobody take care before, and now, hop!, it's the main argument ?) but the way (to donate to watch videos). We have not to discuss about the copyright, it's only Info-Sumo issue with the Law (but, with torrent files, it's the problem of everyone, notice it). The problem is the donation he asked (or fee, if you prefer) and the way he did it. I disagree with this way. Actually, I think the best solution would be free watch and some bonuses for helpers.I'm definitively not the Info-Sumo underdog underling. I hope it's clear.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Sakana

[paolo 0]

..... I still think Info-Sumo is doing a lot of people a great service. I can't get any NHK or Sky TV or whatever it was that was broadcasting sumo, and Eurosport died a while ago, so there's practically no way for me to see the action, except the low quality stream.

....

I fully agree, exactly for the same reasons; I am exactly in the same situation as you are. But unfortunately this service is performed using somebody else's property .... So in "legal" terms if Info_Sumo makes the stuff freely available to somebody that otherwise would not be able to see anything, then a blind eye could possibly be turned around. But what if there is money running, under any circumstances ? That is a difference with YouTube or Torrent or similar . Needless to say, this has nothing to do with the fact that the service is certainly more than worth 5 or 10 euros a basho.

[Xris 2]

you believe the figures posted without question? In all honesty I have no real idea the figure I put into sumo, following, reporting, work with SFM each year but it is far from miniscule i can assure you that.

Price is perfectly reasonable for France, given the bandwith and 24 hrs service. This is video, not just web pages !

Time to edit the videos is enormous, so this is costly too.

[Jakusotsu 6,049]

Info Sumo and Sakana (one and the same I understand)

Don't tell me they're one and the same with Eric Blair as well! (Shaking head...)

[Fay 1,677]

Info Sumo and Sakana (one and the same I understand)

Don't tell me they're one and the same with Eric Blair as well! (Shaking head...)

Thank you, I wanted to say something similar but in the last moment I told myself "shut up" ;-)

[Sakana 46]

I'm Jarod. (Shaking head...)

[kaiguma 0]

you believe the figures posted without question? In all honesty I have no real idea the figure I put into sumo, following, reporting, work with SFM each year but it is far from miniscule i can assure you that.

here you go again, utterly devoid of logic in your counter-arguments.

Which is more correct?

A) If the figure seems reasonable, I will believe it without question.

B) Having no reason to believe otherwise, you somehow have convinced yourself that the figure is false and he is making a profit.

(look that one up will you? not knowing the difference between revenue and profit is the number 1 reason businesses fail)

Don't get yourself caught up in false semantics that are just twisted into place to suit your argument. They fall apart in the slightest breeze.... I would not argue against you if you didn't constantly state your opinions as fact. The way I see things, without a price tag a sale does not occur. I don't believe in the same rigid black and white analysis you've applied to the question at hand. I think there are ways to judge intent. Whether someone intends a fee as a donation can be reasonably assessed by the criteria I mentioned. I payed 1 euro to I-S and I have the service for 1 year. He is clearly not profit-minded. He has no intention or reasonable suspicion that these fees can even pay for the base cost of hosting and maintenance. It is obvious to anyone with half a brain that he is simply trying to pay less out of pocket, so that he can actually afford to keep giving his time for free.

Any other assertion is base and rabid. Yes sir, you are rabid.

Edited July 15, 2008 by kaiguma

[Sokkenaiyama 81]

you believe the figures posted without question? In all honesty I have no real idea the figure I put into sumo, following, reporting, work with SFM each year but it is far from miniscule i can assure you that.

I believe the figures, yes. As for what YOU put into sumo, it's irrelevant to me. I could live my entire life without your sumofanmag, but I need to see the sumo clips. Just because you don't mind giving stuff away, it does NOT mean everyone else must do so. And it certainly doesn't excuse your holier than thou attitude.

EDIT by Randomitsuki: Deleted Sokkenaiyama's conclusion about Mark Buckton.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Sokkenaiyama

[Asashosakari 19,655]

Info Sumo and Sakana (one and the same I understand)

Don't tell me they're one and the same with Eric Blair as well! :-)

I applaud Sakana's superhuman ability to produce the I-S video clips even while he was attending the basho all day long in May. :-) I guess we now know one person Sakana didn't meet while in Tokyo.

Edit: Wait, I mean two people, of course.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Asashosakari

[Doitsuyama 1,192]

Info Sumo has demonstrated complete disregard for clearly stated requests to respect ownership of images / property as is seen in the 'old images wanted' thread; (he advertises the fact that he took pics under such conditions as follows) the NSK museum has more than a few signs in English and Japanese (atop display cases) asking specifically that photos not be taken.

You are getting out of control I presume - my assumption would be that he got permission to make the photos.

[Mark Buckton 1]

you believe the figures posted without question? In all honesty I have no real idea the figure I put into sumo, following, reporting, work with SFM each year but it is far from miniscule i can assure you that.

here you go again, utterly devoid of logic in your counter-arguments.

Which is more correct?

A) If the figure seems reasonable, I will believe it without question.

B) Having no reason to believe otherwise, you somehow have convinced yourself that the figure is false and he is making a profit.

(look that one up will you? not knowing the difference between revenue and profit is the number 1 reason businesses fail)

Don't get yourself caught up in false semantics that are just twisted into place to suit your argument. They fall apart in the slightest breeze.... I would not argue against you if you didn't constantly state your opinions as fact. The way I see things, without a price tag a sale does not occur. I don't believe in the same rigid black and white analysis you've applied to the question at hand. I think there are ways to judge intent. Whether someone intends a fee as a donation can be reasonably assessed by the criteria I mentioned. I payed 1 euro to I-S and I have the service for 1 year. He is clearly not profit-minded. He has no intention or reasonable suspicion that these fees can even pay for the base cost of hosting and maintenance. It is obvious to anyone with half a brain that he is simply trying to pay less out of pocket, so that he can actually afford to keep giving his time for free.

Any other assertion is base and rabid. Yes sir, you are rabid.

(b) - do a little internet research on a man named.... (I have just forgotten) in Matsumoto (Nagano) - a man the whole nation jumped on when the AUM issue broke. He had the chemicals to make the agents used by AUM and so must have been guilty. No-one questioned the assumptions of the media / others until mch too late. His wife remains in a coma brought on by the stress - 15? years later.

underlined kaiguma - please show me where I have stated something as fact? I don7t think you can?

bold - sales often take place without price tags, and with no set price, look at that example about Radiohead. Is that not a sale? I kid you not, this, yours, is the very argument I heard from a guy in the dock for dealing in buying a long while ago. (TV news IIRC) He was denying dealing (a major offence) as no price had been indicateed by a tag / sticker. The money he passed was, in his opinion a donation.

Seriously though, and I am not saying you are a drug dealer of course, I read your post twice but it doesn't make sense. If anything it was a snap response as it is confused and, in my opinion (not a fact) contradictory.

Do I still believe your 'donations' to secure admission to view the said videos (the viewing of which is) being 'sold' by by Info Sumo constitues a sale because without it no viewing would be permitted? Yes I do.

Does your insistence that it does not (constitute a sale) because of your repeated stated belief that Info Sumo, even though he has taken what does not belong to him and is accepting money to let other people see that same thing (my term - selling / yours..........I don't know), clearly isn't out to make a profit hold true? I presume so in your eyes but do you speak for Info Sumo as you are very confident in the way you repeat this.

Which is right? In your eyes, you. In my eyes - I am right, but please answer the question you avoided so deftly - What would you do faced with Japanese, your Japanese in-laws perhaps, confused about all this as they MUST pay 14,000 (approx) to view NHK (and sumo) each year. What would you say to their confusion at someone taking the images they have to pay for, without having paid, and (my words - not fact) potentially looking to make a profit by passing on these images to others.

How would you feel were you forced to pay for something by law, only to see others taking that same thing - without paying - and asking for 'donations' for them to pass it on?

Could you, without blushing tell the Japanese the actions of Info Sumo is not not selling and that their 14,000 is money well spent in enabling Info Sumo the chance to pick up these TV images to then accept donations from?

EDIT - FROM THE OXFORD ENGLISH - my underlining

SELL - hand over or dispose of - in exchange for money.

DONATE - give or contribute voluntarily to a fund or institution

Edited July 15, 2008 by Mark Buckton

[Mark Buckton 1]

Info Sumo has demonstrated complete disregard for clearly stated requests to respect ownership of images / property as is seen in the 'old images wanted' thread; (he advertises the fact that he took pics under such conditions as follows) the NSK museum has more than a few signs in English and Japanese (atop display cases) asking specifically that photos not be taken.

You are getting out of control I presume - my assumption would be that he got permission to make the photos.

Permission (particularly so if stated honestly the intention to use in the public domain / mags / newspapers / internet etc) is given based on an application to the NSK Museum staff - the answer is not given the same day.

What you say could be true, but from conversations with the staff each time I enter the Kokugikan, I seriously doubt it - particularly so were it to have happened in the timeframe he stated. Info Sumo / kaiguma :-) would have to make that call.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Mark Buckton

[Fujisan 533]

Go ask your mom.

My mam still regrets me using her bank account for the internet in the first place.

[Fay 1,677]

Info Sumo has demonstrated complete disregard for clearly stated requests to respect ownership of images / property as is seen in the 'old images wanted' thread; (he advertises the fact that he took pics under such conditions as follows) the NSK museum has more than a few signs in English and Japanese (atop display cases) asking specifically that photos not be taken.

You are getting out of control I presume - my assumption would be that he got permission to make the photos.

Permission (particularly so if stated honestly the intention to use in the public domain / mags / newspapers / internet etc) is given based on an application to the NSK Museum staff - the answer is not given the same day.

Sorry, but this isn't true. I got the permission to take some pics for a heya magazine from the museum staff on the same day. Maybe it helped the Oyakata was with me ...