Olympic medalist gives up medal?

[Kotoviki 16]

I know there are so many smart people here so since my internet searching isn't working...

Today I was at the gym, watching some part of the Olympics medal presentations on some channel without audio and I saw a guy who was tied for bronze, think he was from Sweden? (in my defense, the TV was small, not the clearest picture..) anyway they showed it over and over but with no audio I didn't get what happened. I don't get anything on my search. So anyone can fill in the blanks for me?

He felt he was cheated to share the bronze or what? HE seemed to be smiling the whole time.

I also caught a glimpse on a different TV of them interviewing Asa and Ama about the Mongolian gold . I really thought Ama looked quite happy about it.

I am most happy to see the smiles on the athletes faces of any country when they win. I admit during the Olympics I am not country loyal, I just want the best athletes from wherever they are from to win. I've been cheering every country.. though I must admit I'm doing a lot of cheering for American Phelps but has nothing to do with my being American. 2 more and he gets a million dollar bonus from Speedo. That is pretty sweet to top off the deal!

Anyway thanks if anyone can explain what happened.. too sleepy to keep searching!

[Randomitsuki 2,824]

The Swedish Greco-Roman wrestler Abrahamian protested against his defeat in the semifinals against the later Gold medalist Minguzzi. Abrahamian said: "This medal doesn't mean anything to me, I wanted to get gold". So he threw his bronze medal away during the ceremony.

Edited August 15, 2008 by Randomitsuki

[Kotoviki 16]

Thanks so much! Now that I know who he was I can research further if I like.

What a shame... I guess for him it was gold or nothing?

I watched TV in my car and caught a glimpse of them interviewing Maki's (?) the Japanese girl who lost the gold medal to the girl from China (Tong?) school mates or other people in her hometown I guess.. I thought so many people seemed to be more disappointed she didn't get the gold than happy for what she got. I remember one young woman said "a medal is a medal!"

Since I'm not an Olympic athlete I guess I don't know how I'd feel if I missed a gold and got a bronze or something... but I might have to say "a medal is a medal" as well!

I think I can go to bed now... just in time to wake up in an hour!

Thanks again for replying to me! I know there are experts everywhere here!

[Mark Buckton 1]

The Swedish man should be banned from international competition for this - completely unsportsmanlike, disrespectful of those who didn't get to the Olympics and disrespectful to the Olympic spirit.

In part, a ban should extend to his federation for a period for failing to control him.

He likely ruined the day of the others on the podium and deserves a good slapping from his coach for this.

[Zentoryu 154]

Supposedly he was royally screwed by the referee and judges in his match with the eventual gold medalist. (I didn't see it so can't confirm, but read in local papers that the match in question did have suspect judging). He wasn't even going to fight for the bronze medal, but was talked into doing so by friends, at least that was his story. Not that this condones his actions after the medal presentation.

Banning him won't be necessary as he apparently has quit the sport.

Edited August 15, 2008 by Zentoryu

[Bealzbob 0]

Agree with Mark except for the bit about the ban extending to his federation. They can't know what he is going to do on the podium and it would be ridiculous, spiteful and pointless to punish them too. But this Swede is clearly a certified A-hole.

Edited August 16, 2008 by Bealzbob

[Kaiomitsuki 408]

If Abrahamian don't want this bronze medal , maybe the ICO can give it to the man he beats for the 3rd place : the french Melonin Noumonvi... (i'm french that's why i write this text ;-) )

I'm sure that Melonin will be very proud to have this medal...It should be an honor to receive an Olympic medal... gold, silver, or bronze (Sign of approval...)

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

I'd keep an eye on the Finns, too...

[Randomitsuki 2,824]

I'm sure that Melonin will be very proud to have this medal...It should be an honor to receive an Olympic medal... gold, silver, or bronze ;-)

AFAIK Abrahamian will be disqualified for his unsportsmanlike behavior. So it might very well be that Melonin will get bronze.

[Asashosakari 19,273]

AFAIK Abrahamian will be disqualified for his unsportsmanlike behavior. So it might very well be that Melonin will get bronze.

He's been DQ'd but the second bronze medal has been cancelled altogether.

[Kotoviki 16]

Thanks to everyone who added details while I was sleeping ;-)

A medal is a medal and he should be proud to have it. I understand that he felt he was screwed and he may very well have been but that is the problem with sports.

Seriously how many times do you think a rikishi felt he was screwed by a monoii? Same goes for other sports, replay or not sometimes things don't go your way. The judges are human. The decency would be to go on and forget it and compete harder next time.

Being disqualified was a good action. Mark is quite right banning him from international competition for unsportsmanlike behavior is good. But for his federation I agree with Bealzbob, they can't really know what he's going to do. Hopefully they are as horrified as the rest of us at his behavior.

In any case I really do appreciate all of you coming in to tell me the story. In fact I just talked to my mom who is in the hospital in the US. She and I talked about it last night, she hadn't seen it either in detail, a bit drugged up in her bed. So I just told her what you all told me, she had been wondering as well. Thanks from her too!

Good night! Tonight must be off before 7am!

[Fukurou 534]

A medal is a medal and he should be proud to have it. I understand that he felt he was screwed and he may very well have been but that is the problem with sports.

I'd like to know why the Serbian delegation protested swimmer Milorad Cavic's 2nd place finish in the 100m Butterfly to Michael Phelps (his 7th Gold medal). Cavic was previously quoted as saying that it would be good for swimming if he beat Phelps, which Phelps apparently used for more motivation (though it still was almost not enough). According to the story on sportsillustrated.com, Cavic said, post-race, that he "was stoked" and he didn't "want to fight [this]".

On the other hand, race officials had to review the finish via high speed camera down to 1 frame every 10,000 of a second, before declining to consider the protest, and the Serbian delegation conceded the race (although the chief of the delegation was still grumbling about it, according to the story on sportsillustrated.com). Doing what they felt they had to do , I guess, with good sportsmanship in the end.

I loved the reaction of Phelps' mother - standing there with her fingers up in a "2" sign, then the results are shown and... total and complete shock as she slowly sank out of the picture and into her seat (at least I hope that's where the poor woman went - she looked like she was going pass out onto the floor or something)

aside - my girlfriends and I have decided that beach volleyball must be much more of a "must watch" sport for the male viewer than the female one (In a state of confusion...)

[Kotoviki 16]

aside - my girlfriends and I have decided that beach volleyball must be much more of a "must watch" sport for the male viewer than the female one :-P

(Whistling...) (Clapping wildly...)

Absolutely! I haven't watched a bit of women's beach volleyball myself... But I'm inspired to go and find my Top Gun DVD and watch some of that beach volleyball! B-)

[Fukurou 534]

Supposedly he was royally screwed by the referee and judges in his match with the eventual gold medalist. (I didn't see it so can't confirm, but read in local papers that the match in question did have suspect judging). He wasn't even going to fight for the bronze medal, but was talked into doing so by friends, at least that was his story. Not that this condones his actions after the medal presentation.

Banning him won't be necessary as he apparently has quit the sport.

A bit of follow-up on this - the Court of Arbitration for Sport has ruled that the wrestler, Ara Abrahamian of Sweden, was right to complain about the goings on that led to him putting his bronze medal on the floor, and later being stripped of it for "violating the spirit of fair play."

There was a penalty in the second round of his match against Italy's Andrea Minguzzi, the eventual gold medalist, that wasn't factored in until after the round was over, causing Abrahamian to lose the match. Abrahamian's coach asked for and was denied a video review, then FILA, the governing body, refused to consider a protest. It's no wonder Abrahamian got so mad, he also lost in 2004 Olympics semi-final on a disputed call.

Originally Abrahamian wanted his match with Minguzzi tossed out and his medal restored, but later changed his mind and asked CAS to verify that the lack of an immediate appeals process is a loophole that needs to be fixed. The CAS judges wrote "We limit ourselves to ruling that FILA must, consistently with the (Olympic) Charter and general principles of fairness, establish for the future a jury of appeal to determine the validity or otherwise of complaints of the kind ventilated by [Abrahamian]." So I guess Abrahamian wasn't the only one who "violated the spirit of fair play," eh?

I do like the word CAS used to describe what Abrahamian did - ventilated his complaints <g>

Edited August 24, 2008 by Fukurou

[Takemi 0]

Im from sweden and I have some insight in this matter i think, many of you are out there Judging long before knowing anything about the matter it seems. To sum it up; He thought he was robbed and got tired of the silly rules/calls and the corrupt wrestling. He protested, he wants a change in the, in his mind ( and many others), corrupt and rotten wrestling world.

In this case and in many cases in ozumo, to hell with "the spirit of sportmanship" or alike. Why stand there like a mindless fool and just accept the charades. When sports are corrupt and you are getting robbed, thus there are no sportmanship from the beginning, you might say there are no sport.

I like sports and sportmanship, but i do not like being robbed. Not in wrestling, sumo or no other sport for that matter.

[Randomitsuki 2,824]

I still think that it isn't good sportsmanship to throw away the medal. There are countless sports that are based on subjective judgments (or have some strange or unfair rules). It's part of sportsmanship in those sports to accept that you sometimes feel robbed or actually are robbed.

An example: gymnastics is a sport that relies on subjective scores given by several judges. That's bad enough, but at least it results in a numerical score for the performance. At the Olympics there was a gymnastics discipline where two girls finished with exactly the same score, but after some reconsideration the 16.650 points (I made that number up) for the Chinese gymnast was considered as slightly better than the 16.650 points for the American gymnast. Now that's being robbed as well, but I didn't see protests, pouting, and stuff.

If wrestling is a sport where strange judging is highly prevalent, I bet that Abrahamian must have won many bouts thanks to bad calls as well. So he must know that it can go either way. Let's suppose that the same thing happened in the semifinals, but with Abrahamian instead of Minguzzi winning. Do you think it is highly likely that Abrahamian then would have protested against the charade of being declared the winner? And that judging is corrupt? Or that the rules need to be changed?

[Oimeru 0]

An example: gymnastics is a sport that relies on subjective scores given by several judges. That's bad enough, but at least it results in a numerical score for the performance. At the Olympics there was a gymnastics discipline where two girls finished with exactly the same score, but after some reconsideration the 16.650 points (I made that number up) for the Chinese gymnast was considered as slightly better than the 16.650 points for the American gymnast. Now that's being robbed as well, but I didn't see protests, pouting, and stuff.

They have exact tie-breaking rules there, and followed them:

http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/INF/...shtml#GAW007101

The problem with the wrestling match was that the FILA referees did not implement their own rules properly and that there was no way of logging a protest. I'm certainly not sure it was a case of corruption, though (although wrestling has been dogged with allegations in the past). There's no indication of bribery or the likes -- could as well have been lack of competence.

The case of the Cuban Taekwondo fighter was clear cut, on the other hand. He lost the bout according to the rules, before he "exploded".

[Randomitsuki 2,824]

An example: gymnastics is a sport that relies on subjective scores given by several judges. That's bad enough, but at least it results in a numerical score for the performance. At the Olympics there was a gymnastics discipline where two girls finished with exactly the same score, but after some reconsideration the 16.650 points (I made that number up) for the Chinese gymnast was considered as slightly better than the 16.650 points for the American gymnast. Now that's being robbed as well, but I didn't see protests, pouting, and stuff.

They have exact tie-breaking rules there, and followed them:

http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/INF/...shtml#GAW007101

Thanks for correcting me on that one. I didn't know that.

The problem with the wrestling match was that the FILA referees did not implement their own rules properly and that there was no way of logging a protest. I'm certainly not sure it was a case of corruption, though (although wrestling has been dogged with allegations in the past). There's no indication of bribery or the likes -- could as well have been lack of competence.

Thanks for this information, it makes his protest understandable. Looks like it was really tough luck.

[Oimeru 0]

The problem with the wrestling match was that the FILA referees did not implement their own rules properly and that there was no way of logging a protest. I'm certainly not sure it was a case of corruption, though (although wrestling has been dogged with allegations in the past). There's no indication of bribery or the likes -- could as well have been lack of competence.

I've just looked at the full bout video, and have to soften my statement a bit. I first thought the delay of the penalty call was the problem (as the CAS ruling seemed to indicate that). This would have been a serious refereeing error. The call was delayed by something like 10-15 seconds which were spent in a ground position, but I don't think it had much effect, as neither wrestler would have had a chance to react anyway. The call itself was still very borderline, as most people who know wrestling better than me seem to confirm. In fact no one even seems to know 100% sure what was penalized. The best theory appears to be that Abrahamian touched/grabbed the legs of his opponent, which is hard to see on video.

Protests of any sort are explicitly excluded (!) in the FILA rulebook.

Edited August 25, 2008 by Oimeru

[Takanobaka 0]

I still think that it isn't good sportsmanship to throw away the medal. There are countless sports that are based on subjective judgments (or have some strange or unfair rules). It's part of sportsmanship in those sports to accept that you sometimes feel robbed or actually are robbed.

If you're making an argument about sportsmanship, then you're entirely missing the point. The point is that the wrestling judges have had allegations of corruption for quite some time now, and if not for his actions, most of the world wouldn't have known about it.

Abrahamian did what he had to do to bring some attention to the problems in his sport. He understood the repercussions, and he also understood that the stand he was taking was more important than any unwritten rules of sportsmanship, or being able to place another bronze medal on his mantle would have been.

(Showing respect...)

[Asashosakari 19,273]

Abrahamian did what he had to do to bring some attention to the problems in his sport. He understood the repercussions, and he also understood that the stand he was taking was more important than any unwritten rules of sportsmanship, or being able to place another bronze medal on his mantle would have been.

I'd say you're giving far too much credit to what was probably just an emotional outburst based on the feeling of getting screwed over (again, perhaps). As Randomitsuki already theorized: do you honestly think he would have done the same thing with a gold or silver medal if he'd been on the receiving end of a disputed call in his semifinal bout?

Edit: I'm far more impressed by events like in that one table tennis (semifinal, I think) match where - with only a few points left to play - nobody was completely sure if the ball had touched the edge of the table on top (fair) or on the side (out), and the players on their own decided to replay the point rather than put the referee on the spot for a decision that would have been unpopular either way, even though each player had a lot to gain from getting the call in their favour.

Edit #2: But back to Abrahamian, near the top of the thread:

Abrahamian said: "This medal doesn't mean anything to me, I wanted to get gold". So he threw his bronze medal away during the ceremony.

Colour me unconvinced that he did it to "take a stand" against anything. That seems more like a convenient rationalization once they had gone ahead and stripped him of the bronze medal altogether, especially since he apparently wanted the arbitration panel to restore his medal at first (see article linked by Fukurou above).

Edited August 25, 2008 by Asashosakari