Sekitori with collegiate sumo experience

[Asashosakari 19,648]

Contents of this post are not available.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Exil

[Asashosakari 19,648]

Contents of this post are not available.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Exil

[Asashosakari 19,648]

Contents of this post are not available.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Exil

[Kintamayama 45,504]

Pin to pond! Awesome!

[Randomitsuki 2,843]

Pin to pond! Awesome!

Seconded, thirded, and quartered!! (I am not worthy...)

[Jonosuke 28]

Great stuff.

There could be a couple of footnotes that I know of and both are for Waseda.

"After"　their joining Ozumo, Kyokushuzan was taking part time courses with Waseda University.

And way way back Yahatano Heihachiro also was taking courses at Waseda as well. He went to as high as Juryo.

Of course they were not college rikishi nor graduated.

But I thought you may wanted to know.

[Asashosakari 19,648]

There could be a couple of footnotes that I know of and both are for Waseda. ...

Any additions like that are extremely welcome. (I am not worthy...) Figuring out who exactly counted "officially" as one of the 85 juryo and 62 makuuchi rikishi was a bit difficult, exactly because of cases like you mentioned, e.g. Yahatano. I'm still not 100% sure I have the correct "early" rikishi...but starting from 1970 the lists should be correct and complete.

I understand Asahifuji also spent some time at Kinki, but I've never seen him mentioned as having "collegiate sumo experience" in the way that it's apparently required for inclusion. And then there are also rikishi who might have had collegiate judo experience and the like only, who also don't make the cut here. I'd like to keep the tables limited to those who officially count, but any other collegiate sekitori should be fair game for comments, of course.

BTW, I've added shisho data to the third table to make it clear which stables are (or have been) run by collegiate rikishi.

Edited October 2, 2008 by Asashosakari

[Asojima 2,874]

I have a vague memory that Wajima was also connected to Waseda U. in some way. Is there any record of this or am I again suffering from a spongy synapse?

[Sasanishiki 57]

And then there are also rikishi who might have had collegiate judo experience

Like Ozeki Kaiketsu who was in the judo-bu at Nihon University.

[Orion 431]

I have a vague memory that Wajima was also connected to Waseda U. in some way. Is there any record of this or am I again suffering from a spongy synapse?

Nichidai not Waseda. He was a great collegiate champion.

Orion

[Sasanishiki 57]

Ummm, I think I've found others, but that then puts the number of 85 out of sync.

According to this excellent Japanese site Tatsunami-beya's Ishibashigawa (who was a juryo as Chikugoyama and Dairyuzan) was a sekitori between 1954 and 1957 and hails from Chuo University. The site lists rikishi who came from university sumo rather than just those who attended university.

The same site also says that yokozuna Asahifuji is from Kinki University. I myself always thought Wajima was the only gakusei to make it to yokozuna, but having done some digging I found that he went to Kinki, joined the sumobu but didn't like the lifestyle of living together with everyone (some irony there) and so he quit the club and then also the university at some point and joined ozumo. While he was still active as a rikishi he re-enrolled and later graduated.

Edited October 3, 2008 by Sasanishiki

[Sasanishiki 57]

I have a vague memory that Wajima was also connected to Waseda U. in some way. Is there any record of this or am I again suffering from a spongy synapse?

Might it have been something to do with their American Football team? Wajima moved into coaching and promoting American Football in colleges (or something like that).

[Barang 0]

Tokitenku is Mongolian, but is there other Gaijin Sekitoris with Japanese University Sumo experience?

New Mongolian Aritoshi has some college experience, but it will take some time before he hopefully reach Juryo

[Koukai 4]

Tokitenku is Mongolian, but is there other Gaijin Sekitoris with Japanese University Sumo experience?

New Mongolian Aritoshi has some college experience, but it will take some time before he hopefully reach Juryo

Brazilian Ryuko started as tsukedashi. May be he has an Uni. Sumo experience.

[madorosumaru 7]

Tokitenku is Mongolian, but is there other Gaijin Sekitoris with Japanese University Sumo experience?

New Mongolian Aritoshi has some college experience, but it will take some time before he hopefully reach Juryo

Brazilian Ryuko started as tsukedashi. May be he has an Uni. Sumo experience.

Ryuko was better known as Ryudo. His real name is Luis Go Ikemori and he was born in Brazil of Japanese parentage. He has since naturalized to Japanese citizenship.

He was into judo as a youngster and turned to sumo when he was 16. When he was 18, he went to Japan and won an international tournament. The following year, he returned to Japan and entered Takushoku University, where he won the All-Japan University Tournament. He dropped out of college and joined Tamanoi Beya. He was the first foreign-born deshi to receive makushita tsukedashi status.

[Koukai 4]

He was the first foreign-born deshi to receive makushita tsukedashi status.

There was second?

[Asashosakari 19,648]

According to this excellent Japanese site Tatsunami-beya's Ishibashigawa (who was a juryo as Chikugoyama and Dairyuzan) was a sekitori between 1954 and 1957 and hails from Chuo University. The site lists rikishi who came from university sumo rather than just those who attended university.

The same site also says that yokozuna Asahifuji is from Kinki University. I myself always thought Wajima was the only gakusei to make it to yokozuna, but having done some digging I found that he went to Kinki, joined the sumobu but didn't like the lifestyle of living together with everyone (some irony there) and so he quit the club and then also the university at some point and joined ozumo. While he was still active as a rikishi he re-enrolled and later graduated.

The problem is that these cases not only throw off the overall counts (Asahifuji significantly so, of course), but also the by-university counts that frequently get listed in the banzuke topics and which I used as the major sanity check while compiling all 85 guys, e.g. "Kaito is the seventh former member of the Chuo University sumo team to make his Juryo Division debut" (Natsu 2003).

Possible explanations:

- there's something that results in these guys not being included as having "collegiate sumo team experience"; in Chikugoyama's case I'm actually not sure if he did sumo at Chuo, or is simply a college-graduated person who later joined Ozumo. I suppose it's also possible that Chuo University didn't have an official sumo club back in the 1940s, just some intramural thing.

- there are systematic errors in the Kyokai's count but if so, they've carried them forward in banzuke topics all through this decade. And it seems difficult to imagine how somebody like Asahifuji could be a simple oversight.

- the overall counts are correct, but I have included the wrong guys. The only one I could think of who may not be making the cut in lieu of Chikugoyama (and also only reached juryo, to keep the other counts correct) would be Tochibayama who spent less than a year at Meiji, but he has received explicit mention in the banzuke topics, e.g. "Buyuzan is the 6th former member of the Meiji University Sumo Team to make sumo's second highest division following Tochibayama, Tochinowaka (Takenawa Oyakata), Tochinohana, Tamarikido and Miyabiyama." in Natsu 2000.

So, in short: I have no idea.

He was the first foreign-born deshi to receive makushita tsukedashi status.

There was second?

No, first and only one, unless we count Tamarikido who is ethnic Korean (but Japanese resident and/or citizen).

Edited October 3, 2008 by Asashosakari

[Jonosuke 28]

Regardless of all or any of everything written so far, I think this is one of the most worthwhile threads we have here. As we still have college grads and/or experience rikishi in lower divisions, it will even become more valuable as we go along.

Anyway I think it's nice to have a separate section for those college rikishi not necessarily with sumo club, however I don't believe anyone fits that category right now in Juryo or Makuuchi.

[Asashosakari 19,648]

Updated for the double mountain's makuuchi promotion, and Ichihara's shikona change.

Edited December 24, 2008 by Asashosakari

[Asashosakari 19,648]

Getting a bit of a headstart on the upcoming banzuke release - tables updated for Tosayutaka's imminent makuuchi debut.

[Asashosakari 19,648]

Updated for shin-juryo Sotairyu (10th college guy for Tokitsukaze!) and Tokushinho (first Asahi grad to reach juryo).

[Kintamayama 45,504]

Excuse, me sir, but is there any way you can make a small web page with this? This info is too important to be hidden in some obscure forum thread. I'm not sure it's available anywhere else without a db search since Joe stopped updating his.

B. Why is there no Yokozuna column?

C. I suggest an over-all basho column, so we know how the guys who retired actually survived..

Edited July 30, 2009 by Kintamayama

[Asashosakari 19,648]

Excuse, me sir, but is there any way you can make a small web page with this?

I'd rather not, to be honest. This thread is easy for me to update.

This info is too important to be hidden in some obscure forum thread.

Well, it's been only been 10 months since somebody requested that this be "pinned to pond"... I'm guessing the moderators felt differently in the end.

B. Why is there no Yokozuna column?

As mentioned in the introductory post, the tables are already freakishly wide as is, and since it's only Wajima who made yokozuna...

C. I suggest an over-all basho column, so we know how the guys who retired actually survived..

Can you elaborate? Fair warning: I've intentionally not included any information such as number of sekitori basho or career records that would force me to update lots of details for lots of active rikishi every single basho.

[Doitsuyama 1,192]

Excuse, me sir, but is there any way you can make a small web page with this?

I'd rather not, to be honest. This thread is easy for me to update.

I think I will incorporate that into Sumo Reference...

I'd like to have a handy list of non-sekitori with college sumo experience as well, at least for active or recent rikishi...

Edit: And having the Japanese names of the colleges would be nice too since Sumo Reference is bilingual and all..

Edited July 30, 2009 by Doitsuyama

[Randomitsuki 2,843]

This info is too important to be hidden in some obscure forum thread.

Well, it's been only been 10 months since somebody requested that this be "pinned to pond"... I'm guessing the moderators felt differently in the end.

I am not aware if there is some Moderator Deliberation Council about topics that do or do not belong into the Pond. But even if such a Council existed, we would have certainly voted favorably on this valuable thread. Sorry for the delay - I didn't know that all that had to be executed was a relatively easy "Move Topic" operation.