Bealzbob 0 Posted May 31, 2009 (I really don't mind the ozeki gifting each other wins) Why not? It's cheating, plain and simple; and it de-values the 2nd highest rank in the sport. The only one worth his salt (pun intended) is Harumafuji. The rank appears to be nothing more than a retirement home for the rest of them and it disgusts me that they are so obvious in it. It's also a pity to see rikishi I like (Baruto) already playing the game and laying the groundwork for if he ever gets in and needs a cheat win too. And I also have a problem with these pathetic euphamisms that get trotted out like 'back scratching' or 'lethargic sumo'. It is LETTING your opponent win, it is cheating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Takamizawa 0 Posted May 31, 2009 (I really don't mind the ozeki gifting each other wins) Why not? It's cheating, plain and simple; and it de-values the 2nd highest rank in the sport. The only one worth his salt (pun intended) is Harumafuji. The rank appears to be nothing more than a retirement home for the rest of them and it disgusts me that they are so obvious in it. It's also a pity to see rikishi I like (Baruto) already playing the game and laying the groundwork for if he ever gets in and needs a cheat win too. And I also have a problem with these pathetic euphamisms that get trotted out like 'back scratching' or 'lethargic sumo'. It is LETTING your opponent win, it is cheating. Why not? I guess maybe I'm just not as easily bothered by it as some people? This tends to be my kind of reaction to most things of a dubious nature, more apathetic than outraged. Still, it's not as if I enjoy yaochozumo, but for me it isn't anything to be particularly upset about. It doesn't ruin sumo for me or anything, so I'm willing to just let it slide/ignore it for the most part. Don't get me wrong though, I can understand where the disgust comes from; I even find myself groaning whenever Kaio has a match these days. If sumo was perfect, there wouldn't be any yaocho, but as it is now (with the current ozeki rules) the logical path for most ozeki to follow (from their point of view) is favor-trading if they cannot threaten for the yusho. It would be nice if it weren't so obvious though.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Washuyama 641 Posted May 31, 2009 I agree with Takamizawa on this. Wish it didn't happen, just don't care that it does... I bet Miyabiyama and Dejima just wish the OSBC would've helped them out a little a few years back.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,384 Posted May 31, 2009 I bet Miyabiyama and Dejima just wish the OSBC would've helped them out a little a few years back.. I believe Dejima is known to be 'gachinko'. This means he does not do 'yaocho'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kaiguma 0 Posted May 31, 2009 There's one case when it certainly does matter though! If someone is aiming at wearing Tsuna soon then henka can matter a lot. Harumafuji is certainly in such position now. One henka every next basho and he might find himself still at Ozeki rank even after sequence of several 15-0 yusho. Similar for active Yokozuna. If Yokozuna starts doing henka every now and then he might be advised to retire after couple of basho even if he doesn't lose as single bout. Remember how hard Asa was criticized for his ketaguri against Kisenosato back in Kyushu 2006. No henka, perectly legal and definitely difficult to execute kimarite, but it was considered a shame for Yokozuna to do it. I hope this also makes sense. The bold portions can only be described as gross hyperbole. Neither statement is even close to the "cut and dry" truth. An Ozeki would have to be on the razor's edge of promotion to produce the reaction you put forth. I propose that if Harumafuji follows up his Yusho with a Daitensho (kettei-sen loss), and has performed henka once in each basho (or henka in spirit as against Kissy), then he is denied promotion but given roll-over minutes. If in the third basho he has a clear yusho with another henka, he is promoted anyway. If he had 2 consecutive zensho with 2 blatant henkas in each, he is probably promoted anyway... no one will try to argue against a back to back zensho yusho, unless there is an acute problem with hinkaku. Henka will be seen as a "fringe" problem with dignity. A hinkaku issue large enough to derail b2b zensho must be something as serious as: aggression or brutality off of the dohyo, getting caught abusing kyujo, starting a fight on the dohyo or otherwise instigating trouble with the aite, etc. etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
salle 11 Posted June 4, 2009 The bold portions can only be described as gross hyperbole. Neither statement is even close to the "cut and dry" truth. An Ozeki would have to be on the razor's edge of promotion to produce the reaction you put forth. I propose that if Harumafuji follows up his Yusho with a Daitensho (kettei-sen loss), and has performed henka once in each basho (or henka in spirit as against Kissy), then he is denied promotion but given roll-over minutes. If in the third basho he has a clear yusho with another henka, he is promoted anyway. In both cases I wrote "might (be)". What I wanted to say henka could be an argument for YDC. Perhaps last drop as on "... and on top of everything he is doing henka ...". I didn't want to say henka alone can be the decisive factor. English is not my native language so I probably didn't express myself well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,111 Posted June 4, 2009 What I wanted to say henka could be an argument for YDC. According to some nameless YDC members, specifically yes-they said so exactly and warned him about it.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
