Sashohitowa 6 Posted July 20, 2009 (edited) Honestly, not me. I am first to agree that if that wasn't matta, then it was damn close - but still - sharp tachi-ai from Chiyotaikai and a success in pushing out the Yokozuna... Very, very interesting. But something is wrong with the dohyo - today there was some kind of slipping involved in almost every second bout... P.S.: Just looked at howm many people have picked Chiyotaikai over Asashoryu in the Sekitori-Toto. 2. I thought there would be zero. Edited July 20, 2009 by Sashohitowa Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asysanyama 0 Posted July 20, 2009 Mmmm, no spoilers within the first 24 hours please ! At least, not at the title !!! (Shaking head...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sashohitowa 6 Posted July 20, 2009 Mmmm, no spoilers within the first 24 hours please !At least, not at the title !!! (Shaking head...) Sorry, I didn't get this... What do you mean? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asojima 2,874 Posted July 20, 2009 But something is wrong with the dohyo - today there was some kind of slipping involved in almost every second bout... The Nagoya dohyo is usually more slippery than the others, and this basho has been no exception, but a battle-ready Asa would never have gotten himself into the position where he would be slipping like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,667 Posted July 20, 2009 Mmmm, no spoilers within the first 24 hours please !At least, not at the title !!! (Shaking head...) Umm, this forum has never had a "no spoilers" policy... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
salle 11 Posted July 20, 2009 (edited) Mmmm, no spoilers within the first 24 hours please !At least, not at the title !!! (Shaking head...) Sorry, I didn't get this... What do you mean? People prefer watching replays without knowing the result in advance. The subtitle of your post reveals the result of the bout and thus spoils the pleasure. Edited July 20, 2009 by salle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sashohitowa 6 Posted July 20, 2009 Mmmm, no spoilers within the first 24 hours please !At least, not at the title !!! (Shaking head...) Sorry, I didn't get this... What do you mean? People prefer watching replays without knowing the result in advance. The subtitle of your post reveals the result of the bout and thus spoils the pleasure. Sorry for that. Subtitle deleted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Washuyama 641 Posted July 20, 2009 One thing I have noticed with Asashoryu's. Tachi-ai... He deliveres that smart slap to his opponent's face... But I've noticed he doesn't do it to Chiyotaikai, Kaio and Hakuho.. Haven't really noticed with the other ozeki. Just wondered if that's a respect thing or what? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
salle 11 Posted July 20, 2009 Just wondered if that's a respect thing or what? Asashoryu and respect? These two words don't fit together well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doitsuyama 1,192 Posted July 20, 2009 Mmmm, no spoilers within the first 24 hours please !At least, not at the title !!! (Shaking head...) Sorry, I didn't get this... What do you mean? People prefer watching replays without knowing the result in advance. The subtitle of your post reveals the result of the bout and thus spoils the pleasure. Sorry for that. Subtitle deleted. No reason to be sorry at all. You can also keep the subtitle. The other guys should know that there is no such thing as a spoiler in this forum. They are the annoying guys, not you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sokkenaiyama 81 Posted July 20, 2009 That has to have been the worst sumo Asashoryu displayed this year. Chiyotaikai's close-to-matta tachi-ai didn't help much, either. It wasn't nearly as blatant as the one against Aran, but still. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hakuyobaku 33 Posted July 20, 2009 I'm just wondering who'll have the guts to pronounce the y-word. Or to rename the OBSC to OYBSC. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randomitsuki 2,843 Posted July 20, 2009 Somehow I have the feeling as if Asashoryu will pull out of this tournament. Which of course implies the questionable notion that he was ever really into it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kame 0 Posted July 20, 2009 That was slippery, wasn't it? And it didn't appear like either rikishi tried too hard to avoid it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sokkenaiyama 81 Posted July 20, 2009 I watched the replay to make sure. It does indeed appear Asashoryu's right leg slipped when he was trying to dig in and turn the tables on Chiyotaikai. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sashohitowa 6 Posted July 20, 2009 That was slippery, wasn't it? And it didn't appear like either rikishi tried too hard to avoid it. Eh, come on now.... I was going to ask what benefit at all might Asashoryu have if giving away that fight, but I realize that OBSC, being a great conspiracy theory, will manage to find a great place for that fight within itself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harry 67 Posted July 20, 2009 (edited) This is my shin-live-basho and perhaps I simply never noticed this on TV but at times they pour water on the dohyo here in Nagoya. It is still cracking pretty good and I assume this is some sort of normal boring maintenance they never show on TV and no one thinks to mention but that water on clay can only make it slippery... They use a big old watering can and just pour it on and then sweep it. Two days of flying zabuton in a row was quite a lot of fun. Happily on Saturday night Asashoryu put down the window of his SUV to wave at us but sadly of course he wasn't in the mood last night or tonight. Kotomitsuki, Hakuho and Chiyotaikai were smiling today of course. Edited July 20, 2009 by Harry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonosuke 28 Posted July 20, 2009 (edited) I know some people do not want to admit it but Asashoryu is not what he used to be anymore. It's not about slipperiness of the dohyo as it's the same for both rikishi but rather sloppiness of his sumo. He is like a 100 plus mile an hour pitcher losing his speed to 90, still quicker than most but not as outstanding and one error, he is in danger. Even some of the bouts he won, he didn't look invincible, some he appeared to be pretty fortunate. This is a result of all that time away in Mongolia, lack of consistent training sessions. Nothing wrong with changing one's training regimen as they get to a veteran status, but somehow all these "2 On 1 Off" training schedule is catching up to him. Even physically decimated Kaio works out every day, so why not him? Now that he has two losses, his chance of winning the yusho has become more difficult and I am not sure how that prospect affects his mental sumo as he still has some formidable opponents to face, it will be an uphill battle. No one can write off his career yet as he is still young and still possesses all that ability and natural talent but unless he gets back to a training regimen that has been pretty successful for Koto-Ozeki this basho, his rock solid days are over. Edited July 20, 2009 by Jonosuke Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Treblemaker 254 Posted July 20, 2009 But something is wrong with the dohyo - today there was some kind of slipping involved in almost every second bout... But something is wrong with the dohyo - today there was some kind of slipping involved in almost every second bout... The Nagoya dohyo is usually more slippery than the others, and this basho has been no exception, but a battle-ready Asa would never have gotten himself into the position where he would be slipping like that. That was slippery, wasn't it? And it didn't appear like either rikishi tried too hard to avoid it. I've been banging away at the slipperyness of the Nagoya dohyo in the other forum. Day 8's sliders: Toyayutaka, Takekaze, Mokonami, both Oshu and Kaio at various times in their bout, and both Taikai and Asa, although this one was Asa's to lose, and he did. Iin fact, in more than a few bouts, Taikai has been kicking up more sand than a dog burying a bone at the beach. Mitsuki was a victim of the surface in his one loss... The only time the dohyo isn't slippery is just after they've watered it. A bout or two later, it becomes rediculous. I'm just hoping that the yusho isn't decided by someone slipping down a few feet away from his opponent. In other news: YMY: 2 bellyflops. He was in big pain after the first one, and I just hope he didn't damage something. (Ross Mihara mentioned that YMY looked in pain, then added, "hunger pangs?". C'mon Ross, of course the guy's hungry, but anyone that big is gonna hurt falling twice. I missed Doreen in today's broadcast. I could listen to her recite the alphabet all day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HenryK 38 Posted July 20, 2009 (edited) I've been banging away at the slipperyness of the Nagoya dohyo in the other forum. Day 8's sliders: Toyayutaka, Takekaze, Mokonami, both Oshu and Kaio at various times in their bout, and both Taikai and Asa, although this one was Asa's to lose, and he did.Iin fact, in more than a few bouts, Taikai has been kicking up more sand than a dog burying a bone at the beach. Mitsuki was a victim of the surface in his one loss... The only time the dohyo isn't slippery is just after they've watered it. A bout or two later, it becomes rediculous. I'm just hoping that the yusho isn't decided by someone slipping down a few feet away from his opponent. I've been gradually moving over into your camp in recent days, and last night did the final bit to convince me -- the bouts resembled more an ice-skating competition than sumo. Like this, chance gets too much a part in deciding bouts. Not nice to see. This said, I also agree with others who say Asashoryu has lost sharpness. He isn't as strong as Hakuho, Kotooshu or Baruto, and his speed advantage doesn't suffice any more to reliably compensate for that. And Harumafuji is on his way to become the new master of speed sumo. Will be hard for Asashoryu to win another basho. Personally I'd still like him to stay around for a little longer, just for the flamboyance he brings to the competition. But ozumo doesn't tolerate sub-par Yokozuna, hence without the results his career will probably be cut short. Edited July 20, 2009 by HenryK Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,667 Posted July 20, 2009 (edited) I've been banging away at the slipperyness of the Nagoya dohyo in the other forum. Day 8's sliders: Toyayutaka, Takekaze, Mokonami, both Oshu and Kaio at various times in their bout, and both Taikai and Asa, although this one was Asa's to lose, and he did. The real fun can be found in lower juryo, which has been a near-nonstop henka festival this basho and combined with the slippery dohyo has made for some entertaining if very much unintentional movements... Sometimes I've even had to wonder if the henka itself might have been unintentional and a rikishi just slipped sideways while trying to secure a grip. Even some of the bouts he won, he didn't look invincible, some he appeared to be pretty fortunate. This is a result of all that time away in Mongolia, lack of consistent training sessions. Nothing wrong with changing one's training regimen as they get to a veteran status, but somehow all these "2 On 1 Off" training schedule is catching up to him. Even physically decimated Kaio works out every day, so why not him? I don't even think the 2-for-3 schedule is so much at fault as the fact that he's been starting keiko rather late nearly every basho now (unless you put much credence on his "practicing in Mongolia" gig), and even on the two active days he isn't exactly seeking out quality opposition much of the time. I still recall three to four years ago or so when everybody got on the ozekis' (and more generally, Japanese rikishis') case for avoiding Asashoryu during degeiko. Nowadays he seems to be just fine with that arrangement, the very occasional session with Harumafuji notwithstanding. Will be hard for Asashoryu to win another basho. Personally I'd still like him to stay around for a little longer, just for the flamboyance he brings to the competition. But ozumo doesn't tolerate sub-par Yokozuna, hence without the results his career will probably be cut short. IMHO the main problem is that flamboyance can quickly descend into self-parody if it's not backed up by results any longer. And I do think he's aware of that. He's probably not the type of yokozuna who can coast along with 11-12 win tournaments until the physical ailments finally overwhelm him. Edited July 20, 2009 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paolo 0 Posted July 20, 2009 It might be that Asashoryu's mind is still back to January, when he took the basho starting from a below zero starting point. And that he thinks he can still do that kind of training/no training before a basho and win all the same. But miracles repeat themselves very seldom.... As far as I remember about my little sport career, the older I got the more intensively I had to train in order to achieve the same results. After a basho Asashoryu goes to Mongolia where he stays 3/4 weeks, then he comes back with no more than 2 weeks to train, and he carefully avoids to train with strong people. As I wrote many times, how can one of the best sportsmen in a sport get ready that way ? Not to mention the divorce, which certainly does not cause anybody to feel better... If Asashoryu's pride is what it seemed to be till some time ago, he must go back to real training or else quit: other rikishi have closed up in terms of strength, speed, technique, and Asashoryu is now only one in the group. Moreover, no opponent seem to fear him any more, and that is another important point: there are no easy wins caused by intimidation as there were some time ago ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zentoryu 154 Posted July 20, 2009 Umm, this forum has never had a "no spoilers" policy... You sure about that? Think I remember reading the opposite once on a trawl through posts from the very early days. There was a discussion at one point about posters being discreet in their choice of thread titles, but I'm pretty sure that Kaikitsune decided to just let them have free reign in Honbasho talk. The Ozumo discussions subforum is the only one on the whole site that is supposed to have a no-spoilers policy. That policy doesn't apply to the honbasho talk subforum. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,667 Posted July 20, 2009 (edited) Well it seems there was a policy indeed. Back in the days with maybe 10 daily posts... (During honbasho!) AFAIK that policy was gone even by the time I arrived here, let alone when you joined a year later. Fun flashback: I enjoy this forum a lot, especially since I'm not a part of the sumo ML due to its enormous amount of mail created. I don't want that many mail in my inbox. Here I can sort the information and read it when I want to... (Thumbs up...) Edited July 20, 2009 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gusoyama 104 Posted July 20, 2009 I, for one, hope that Asa "wakes up" next basho, and the fire returns to his belly. Surely the separation and divorce proceedings have had a large affect on him, and will of course have thrown off his sumo. Combine that with the "what's left to accomplish" phenomenon, and you've got one demotivated Yokozuna. I'm hoping he gets his act together, and gets back in form. But maybe I've been watching too many Rocky movies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
