Will Tochiazuma win Yokozuna promotion in Jan '04

[Kotoseiya Yuichi 3]

Asashoryu might have bashos in which he doesn't get actively engaged in idiotic behaviour but he's a timebomb waiting to explode. He might be young and stupid by nature but people like him never change and mature. I have known enough people like him. It must be genetic.

I can prophetize as well. In senshuraku he's about to win Tochiazuma by yorikiri but commits an isamiashi. The gyoji points his gumbai correctly and gets pushed out of the dohyo by the Mongolian Moron. I can expect anything from this mockery of rikishi. The sooner the idiot leaves the dohyo for good, the better. It insults me to see his shikona in my game line-ups.

There is no such thing as an unearned yokozuna promotion. No one should be held accountable to the lack of form of his opponents.

The off-topic department: pahanilmanlintu (lit. bird of ill weather) is someone disliked for saying aloud things everyone realizes but no one wants to think about more than absolutely necessary.

[Tumppi 0]

I feel it would be "unfair" for Tochiazuma to be promoted before Taikai or Kaio, I really do. (Laughing...) But if he is able to win the Hatsu yusho with 13 or more wins I guess he'd deserve it.

And I don't dislike the guy, more of the opposite. I just think the other Ozeki would deserve it more.

[Zenjimoto 40]

Or are you even insinuating that they would fix matches so that Tochiazuma DOES get what is needed, since it's for the good of the Kyokai? (Laughing...).

Match fixing? In sumo??? Oh, come on! ;-) That's crazy talk! (Applauding...)

I'm just saying that "whoops" Tochiazuma seems to be surfacing "just" at the right time... no Takanohana, a hated gaijin Yokozuna, another retired Yokozuna, old guard guys dropping like flies, Kaio eternally damned to be Ozeki, Taikai still falling for easy henkas... but here he is, the miracle boy model-bad-Ozeki who hasn't had 9 wins in 2 years (ok, I didn't look, but it's close), suddenly defeating the hated and hitherto overpowering gaijin Yokozuna, taking a tsuna run into the new sumo year with lots of talk about the future of the sport.

But yeah, it's a coincidence. Sugoi, ne? (Laughing...)

Cheers

Zenjimoto

[Zenjimoto 40]

Asashoryu might have bashos in which he doesn't get actively engaged in idiotic behaviour but he's a timebomb waiting to explode. He might be young and stupid by nature but people like him never change and mature. I have known enough people like him. It must be genetic.

I can prophetize as well. In senshuraku he's about to win Tochiazuma by yorikiri but commits an isamiashi. The gyoji points his gumbai correctly and gets pushed out of the dohyo by the Mongolian Moron. I can expect anything from this mockery of rikishi. The sooner the idiot leaves the dohyo for good, the better. It insults me to see his shikona in my game line-ups.

There is no such thing as an unearned yokozuna promotion. No one should be held accountable to the lack of form of his opponents.

The off-topic department: pahanilmanlintu (lit. bird of ill weather) is someone disliked for saying aloud things everyone realizes but no one wants to think about more than absolutely necessary.

I can't recall Asashoryu doing anything over the last 2 basho that could in any way be criticized, other than the fact that he lost to Tochinonada yet again, throwing me out of the Chaingang on day 2, and that he lost to Tochiazuma to save the future of sumo in Japan... (Laughing...)

Cheers

Zenjimoto

[Kotoseiya Yuichi 3]

It is a coincidence. Too bad they stopped showing X-Files here. Cigarette Smoking Man would be able to explain this situation.

[Kotoseiya Yuichi 3]

I can't recall Asashoryu doing anything over the last 2 basho that could in any way be criticized (...)

Wait.

[Kintamayama 45,530]

I have to disagee with two of my Ichimon's esteemed members on two different subjects.

Tochiazuma was always good. He got injured, got into a mental bad rut-whatever, he hasn't been "there" for a couple of years, but he's back. That's normal-people have their ups and downs, Insinuating that his road was "fixed" on the way to his yusho is, well, sci--fi at best. Asashouryuu will not take a dive for anyone. And I thought he was the "bad boy" of Sumo, the devil, the arrogant, the one with no regard for tradition? Suddenly, when it's real convinient to some of us,, he's "playing along"? And Azuma had to win 12 bouts before that. Were they fixed as well? ? Naah. Tochiazuma started off the Basho very well, waaay before Maru retired. He would have won it even if Maru hadn't retired.

Maru's retirement was "waiting to happen"?? Much, much easier to "fix" U's Yusho last time around, when he needed 12 wins. EVERYBODY would have been thrilled, except maybe me.. Anyone who knows anything knew that Maru's days were numbered.. The"sudden need for a Japanese Yokozuna"? We haven't had a viable second Yokozuna for over a year now. Come on..

As for our Rijicho's attitude towards Asashouryuu, I vehemently disagree. I think it was unbased , just plain hatred for a young kid who suddenly finds himself in a position no one prepared him for very quickly. I find this kind of attack grossly unfair, but everyone is entitled to his opinion, as we all know. Anyhow, it seems all Finns hate him for some mysterious reason..

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

Or are you even insinuating that they would fix matches so that Tochiazuma DOES get what is needed, since it's for the good of the Kyokai?  (Laughing...).

Match fixing? In sumo??? Oh, come on! ;-) That's crazy talk! (Applauding...)

I'm just saying that "whoops" Tochiazuma seems to be surfacing "just" at the right time... no Takanohana, a hated gaijin Yokozuna, another retired Yokozuna, old guard guys dropping like flies, Kaio eternally damned to be Ozeki, Taikai still falling for easy henkas... but here he is, the miracle boy model-bad-Ozeki who hasn't had 9 wins in 2 years (ok, I didn't look, but it's close), suddenly defeating the hated and hitherto overpowering gaijin Yokozuna, taking a tsuna run into the new sumo year with lots of talk about the future of the sport.

But yeah, it's a coincidence. Sugoi, ne? ;-)

Cheers

Zenjimoto

Really, for god sake present some evidence of this. There have been plenty of Yokozuna candidates of late that would have been just as convenient to have promoted. And yes, with a one-yokozuna situation, and most guys in a position to aim for yokozuna right now Japanese, of course it IS just a matter of time, even without bout fixing. So please present something that likely is NOT coincidental instead of that ridiculous "we all know"-stuff, because we don't all know. Enlighten me, instead of indicating that it should be obvious to me. It isn't. (Laughing...)

[Zenjimoto 40]

Tochiazuma was always good. He got injured, got into a mental bad rut-whatever, he hasn't been "there" for a couple of years, but he's back. That's normal-people have their ups and downs, Insinuating that his road was "fixed" on the way to his yusho is, well, sci--fi at best. Asashouryuu will not take a dive for anyone. And I thought he was the "bad boy" of Sumo, the devil, the arrogant, the one with no regard for tradition? Suddenly, when it's real convinient to some of us,, he's "playing along"? And Azuma had to win 12 bouts before that. Were they fixed as well? ? Naah. Tochiazuma started off the Basho very well, waaay before Maru retired. He would have won it even if Maru hadn't retired.

Maru's retirement was "waiting to happen"?? Much, much easier to "fix" U's Yusho last time around, when he needed 12 wins. EVERYBODY would have been thrilled, except maybe me.. Anyone who knows anything knew that Maru's days were numbered.. The"sudden need for a Japanese Yokozuna"? We haven't had a viable second Yokozuna for over a year now. Come on..

Yes, Tochiazuma was always good. So was Miyabiyama. So was Dejima. And Tosanoumi. And Kotonowaka. And Musoyama...

Tochiazuma COULD be just another one of those... only time will tell whether his real fate is mediocrity after so much promise at the beginning, like the other ones listed above, or whether the real Tochiazuma is the one we saw just now. Athletes in all sports can suddenly "lose it". Yes, they may show flashes of brilliance still, but in the end, they lose it. I sure hope that Tochiazuma is back for good. Sumo needs that.

I dont believe Asa is the bad boy, rather that he is perceived to be by many, and that wrongly. Behind the facade of the NSK, everybody lives and breathes success by the popularity of the sport. If sumo isn't popular, it doesn't matter that Asashoryu wins every second basho, cause the sport is in decline. Therefore, it is in the best interest of everybody, regardless of their competitiveness, that the sport do well, and the money comes with it. "Imagine there was a basho, and nobody went"? No one wants that, and I won't rule out that measures are taken to prevent that from happening.

Why is Tochiazuma ideal? He has immeasurable charisma, the good looks and right age, and is a second-generation thoroughbred. Kaio is too old and too injured. No one believes that he would last long as a Yokozuna. His injuries are obvious, and as such a fixed Yusho for promotion (if there were such a thing) would never look believable and do immeasurable damage to the sport. Taikai simply has no charisma. His oshi-sumo is awesome, but I find him dull as a personality. And I am sure the NSK looks on his bikini model girlfriend with a sore eye too. That leaves sunnyboy Azuma. Notice how Musoyama never even figures into this. Wakanosato making Ozeki would also have been good for sumo, but in order for something like that to go over with a little help (if there were such a thing), the candidate has to be in better form. Azuma happened to be in form. His wins were not fixed. And if the later ones were fixed (not that this could be possible), it was believable enough, cause he was in form. Another coincidence is that Asa and Azuma went at it on Day 15, highly irregular, never seen before in 1000 years of sumo. Coincidence, I am sure, I'm sure, so sure ... (Laughing...)

To Jussi: OK, I'll wait. But after a few more basho, I think it's time to finally give the kid Yokozuna some credit, provided he deserves it at that time ;-)

Cheers

Zenjimoto

[Zenjimoto 40]

Or are you even insinuating that they would fix matches so that Tochiazuma DOES get what is needed, since it's for the good of the Kyokai?  (Laughing...).

Match fixing? In sumo??? Oh, come on! ;-) That's crazy talk! (Laughing...)

I'm just saying that "whoops" Tochiazuma seems to be surfacing "just" at the right time... no Takanohana, a hated gaijin Yokozuna, another retired Yokozuna, old guard guys dropping like flies, Kaio eternally damned to be Ozeki, Taikai still falling for easy henkas... but here he is, the miracle boy model-bad-Ozeki who hasn't had 9 wins in 2 years (ok, I didn't look, but it's close), suddenly defeating the hated and hitherto overpowering gaijin Yokozuna, taking a tsuna run into the new sumo year with lots of talk about the future of the sport.

But yeah, it's a coincidence. Sugoi, ne? :-)

Cheers

Zenjimoto

Really, for god sake present some evidence of this. There have been plenty of Yokozuna candidates of late that would have been just as convenient to have promoted. And yes, with a one-yokozuna situation, and most guys in a position to aim for yokozuna right now Japanese, of course it IS just a matter of time, even without bout fixing. So please present something that likely is NOT coincidental instead of that ridiculous "we all know"-stuff, because we don't all know. Enlighten me, instead of indicating that it should be obvious to me. It isn't. ;-)

You want evidence? OK... I have here a signed statement from Asashoryu, stating that he was told by Kitanoumi to do less than his strongest sumo on senshu... oh wait. Never mind. I don't have any evidence. :-D

But that's OK... I am not trying to prove anything. There is nothing to prove. I am not out to prove that Kyushu 2003 was fixed, or that Hatsu 2004 will be fixed, or that there is fixing anywhere else than in Bob Vila's TV show. I don't know that there is, and I certainly don't believe it, but I am inclined to at least speculate on the possibility due to some irregularities that seemed to occur, such as the unheard-of senshuraku matchup, and Asa's uncharacteristic sumo in that same match. That, however, proves nothing. Neither will a Tochiazuma yusho in Hatsu prove anything.

Guys, I am not out to push anybody's buttons here, please don't get me wrong. I myself am not convinced of anything. If an outsider asks me today, what did you think of the Kyushu basho, I'll tell him or her that we saw a great comeback of a refreshed young Ozeki who tore his way though his opponents all tournament long, and defeated the grand champion to take his second championship and have a chance at the nadir next time around. For this, I have evidence. You all saw it. Everything else would be speculation. But speculation can be fun (Applauding...) Just don't think I am trying to convince anybody with non-existent evidence, cause I am not :-)

Cheers!

Zenjimoto

PS: btw, there may never be evidence, even if it were real. As long as all involved (which may be a very very small circle) keep their mouths shut (and why wouldn't they), there will never be any trace. It's not like there is a database somewhere that catalogs matches mandated by the NSK leadership :-D

Edited December 2, 2003 by Zenjimoto

[Doitsuyama 1,192]

@Zenjimoto: Constructions like yours are made from crazy sports fans all over the world in all kinds of sport. Unless there is ANY evidence to support this I'll tell you what this is good for: it just lowers the opinion of you in the mind of some forum members. I personally at least don't esteem people high who throw out conspiracy theories for the like of it. It is simply not good because so many assumptions are thrown together which might or might not be true, and the conclusions from those assumptions are even less credible. And I guess Yubiquitoyama has the same problem with that.

Regarding girl friends: Do you remember Tochiazuma's girl friend going by the name of Dump Matsumoto or something like that? That female wrestling star with a BIG body? I'm not sure how the Kyokai thinks about such a liason, but I never heard of this again...

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

But that's OK... I am not trying to prove anything. There is nothing to prove. I am not out to prove that Kyushu 2003 was fixed, or that Hatsu 2004 will be fixed, or that there is fixing anywhere else than in Bob Vila's TV show. I don't know that there is, and I certainly don't believe it, but I am inclined to at least speculate on the possibility due to some irregularities that seemed to occur, such as the unheard-of senshuraku matchup, and Asa's uncharacteristic sumo in that same match. That, however, proves nothing. Neither will a Tochiazuma yusho in Hatsu prove anything.

Well, I see what you write, but I don't see the point. I can specualate that Asashoryu is really from Singapore, that Kitanoumi is an alien from another planet and that Bush becoming president was actually a conspiracy led by Dewanoumi rijicho including bugs put into the ear of every American. But I don't see the point of this since there is nothing that points to anything of it and could possibly be deemed inflammatory.

Besides, it's not so much what you are saying as how you are saying it that I consider inflammatory. This insinuation that it should be obvious to everyone and "yeah, right, nudge nudge"-crap is the inflammatory part.

Btw, Asashoryu's match against Tochiazuma was in fact quite a lot like the one he had against Chiyotaikai the day before. When he didn't get anywhere, he tried a slap down. This is not particularly unusual for Asashoryu to do when he is in trouble.

Edited December 2, 2003 by Yubiquitoyama

[Zenjimoto 40]

Lack of sense of humor and light-heartedness can be a real problem in this forum sometimes...

You guys need to lighten up a bit and stop taking everything super-serious... especially yourselves! (Laughing...)

Edited December 2, 2003 by Zenjimoto

[Kaikitsune Makoto 209]

Asashoryu should be GOOD for sumo because Japanese don't like him much and detest the fact that foreign yokozuna is the sole yokozuna and even the kind of yokozuna who looks like a bully and who bullies Japanese rikishi often. Japanese must learn to love to hate him. Then support for Japanese rikishi who beat him will be big. Am I foolish when I claim that this is even ideal situation??? Japan is known for its hard working status and despite the fact that youngsters there are too comfortable nowadays and threat to quit if oyakata even shouts at them with good reason, it would still surprise me if there aren't enough youngsters who have this traditional Japanese mentality and perseverance and humble attitude towards even extremely harsh personal keiko defying pain and agony. Asashoryu sets an example. He has always been a furious keiko man who hates to lose. So for god's sake, bring up Japanese rikishi with similar keiko intensity! There are many of those already though. Futeno was said to do so much keiko that it almost kills him. Kotomitsuki's keiko is always intense when he has health. I am sure Toki has gotten a fair dose of keiko intensity along with Asashoryu's stablematism. Nobody can claim Tochiazuma isn't one major keiko maniac too. In lower ranks I am sure lot of work is done.

So if Japanese hate Asashoryu, that should be VERY good for the future of ozumo unless Japanese are quitters which I don't believe to be the case. Like Moti says it is hardly Asashoryu-like to lose on purpose. What can Kyokai do? Frame him for murder? sabotage his reputation with accusations that are not truth? Call Mongolian ambassador and threat to stop import from Mongolia? If there is good brother-themes going on in Kyokai, I am very glad Asashoryu is there to despise such activity and go for kill in every single bout no matter how good it would be for sumo to have a Japanese rikishi winning a bout X against him. I refuse to believe this. If at some point it will become clear that even Asashoryu can work in favour of schemes and promote the "entartainment" value by participating in yaocho, I will lose all interest in ozumo as something I really like. I will always like the sumo content but if they arrange stuff like that I have no respect whatsoever towards Kyokai anymore. Until that day comes (hope it never does), I will be a big fan though.

Zenjimoto's kidding is rather annoying. Not because one should never bring up conspiracy theories but because of the fact that when the "better" outcome came true ie. Azuma beating foreign yokozuna, these came up on ML and now here. If Shoryu would have won, everyone would have kept their mouth shut. So what we had here is "If Azuma wins, it is arranged!!" already beforehand and that is the reddest of cloths to me and gets me most pissed off. Nobody gave rat's feces about the fact that Azuma doesn't lose to Shoryu in skill nor strength. I find it utterly bizarre and logic-insulting that Shoryu was some big favourite in that bout and was somehow off-track there because he lost. Is there a person somewhere who claims that KaioU's dominance over Shoryu is because of Shoryu's bad sumo against KaioU? If there is, I will bow deeply and promote you to Tom Quinn-class.

[QttP 0]

Btw, Asashoryu's match against Tochiazuma was in fact quite a lot like the one he had against Chiyotaikai the day before. When he didn't get anywhere, he tried a slap down. This is not particularly unusual for Asashoryu to do when he is in trouble.

It's only natural to try pulldown/slapdown moves when pushing doesn't get you anywhere. But Asashoryu's slapdown against Chiyotaikai came after Chiyotaikai made the mistake of lowering his head too much in order to start blasting Asashoryu back. Chiyotaikai was in poor balance, and in that situation a slapdown was the right thing to do.

On the other hand, Asashoryu's pull attempt againts Tochiazuma was ridiculous, because it came when the latter was in a stable defensive stance, and the only result was going to be Tochiazuma storming Asashoryu backwards with the speed of a small train. And that's what happened.

[Zuikakuyama 1]

Zenji,

Can you explain why is it irregular that Tochi and Asas went at it in sensuraku?

It seems to me that it would be the norm that the kyokai would try to pit the rikishis with the best records thus far on the last day. It creates excitement up to the last day

By the end of day 11 and all the up through day 14, when the yoko vs ozeki matches are always scheduled, amongst the ozekis, only Tochi had a real shot at yusho.

So is there some sort of rule that the haridashi ozekis meet the yokozunas first rather than the "regular" ozekis? And even then, Tochi was a regular ozeki rather than a haridashi ozeki.

BTW, I am from Singapore, so I can definitely vouch that Asashoryu is definitely not a Singaporean. (Laughing...)

[Zenjimoto 40]

Zenji,

Can you explain why is it irregular that Tochi and Asas went at it in sensuraku?

It seems to me that it would be the norm that the kyokai would try to pit the rikishis with the best records thus far on the last day. It creates excitement up to the last day

By the end of day 11 and all the up through day 14, when the yoko vs ozeki matches are always scheduled, amongst the ozekis, only Tochi had a real shot at yusho.

So is there some sort of rule that the haridashi ozekis meet the yokozunas first rather than the "regular" ozekis? And even then, Tochi was a regular ozeki rather than a haridashi ozeki.

BTW, I am from Singapore, so I can definitely vouch that Asashoryu is definitely not a Singaporean. (Laughing...)

Senshuraku traditionally sees the two top-rankers face off against each other, which in this case would have been Asa and Taikai.

To me, it also makes more sense that the two guys with the best records would fight each other last, but traditionally this is not what happens. I applaud the NSK for this departure of protocol, cause it obviously added great drama to the basho to the very last moment.

Cheers

Zenjimoto

[Zenjimoto 40]

I find it utterly bizarre and logic-insulting that Shoryu was some big favourite in that bout and was somehow off-track there because he lost.

Asa was a 70% favorite in that mach, according to the Sekitori-Toto pickers :-)

[Kintamayama 45,530]

I find it utterly bizarre and logic-insulting that Shoryu was some big favourite in that bout and was somehow off-track there because he lost.

Asa was a 70% favorite in that mach, according to the Sekitori-Toto pickers :-)

Not to mention ISP, where it was 102-36..

[Asashosakari 19,664]

Zenjimoto's kidding is rather annoying. Not because one should never bring up conspiracy theories but because of the fact that when the "better" outcome came true ie. Azuma beating foreign yokozuna, these came up on ML and now here. If Shoryu would have won, everyone would have kept their mouth shut. So what we had here is "If Azuma wins, it is arranged!!" already beforehand and that is the reddest of cloths to me and gets me most pissed off.

I have to second that. It's incredibly annoying when people feel they need to invoke the dark powers of Kyokai-sponsored yaocho, the NSA, the Illuminati or whatever their personal boogeyman is, the minute that something doesn't happen according to "plan". Yeah, yeah, "being paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT out to get you" and all that, but generally speaking I consider people who dabble in that sort of thing to be rather high on the whackjob scale.

I realize Zenjimoto is mostly posing this as a "what if" scenario, unlike some of those nutcases on the SML who think the fix was OBVIOUSLY in, as evidenced by the fact that (gasp!) Asashoryu lost an important bout, which everybody knows never has and never will (indeed, never CAN) happen under natural circumstances, but I'm not surprised at all that some people here are ready to put you into the nutcase group as well, Max. You run with the crowd, you get identified with it.

What's the point of insinuating that the senshuraku bout was fixed? It's just an underhanded way of saying "you know, Tochiazuma doesn't really have what it takes to beat Asashoryu". If that's what you believe, cool; come out and say it. People will still disagree, but at least it's a subject that can be discussed in reasonable ways. Hiding behind undisprovable conspiracy theories only serves to shield a person from any meaningful criticism. And if the above statement is not what you believe, well, it's going to be (and was) interpreted that way anyway, obviously, as the responses show.

BTW, I wonder how strong your sense of humour would be if, say, during Athens 2004 people were to comment with "yeah, but, you know they're all doped, right? I mean, how else do you explain it? (wink, wink, nudge, nudge)" whenever an Austrian wins a medal? Mind you, not just once; you'd be subjected to reading that every single time they win one. Sure, you can ignore it and hope it goes away (which it wouldn't), but that'll only serve to make that meme enter "common knowledge" territory more quickly.

And for some reason people don't want to see that happen with the "sumo is fixed" meme...perhaps because sumo isn't having the greatest reputation among regular people to begin with, but what do I know. I suppose it wouldn't be okay with you if sumo ends up on the receiving end of that "you know it's not a real sport, right?" dismissive attitude that pro-wrestling gets, or would it?

[Zenjimoto 40]

BTW, I wonder how strong your sense of humour would be if, say, during Athens 2004 people were to comment with "yeah, but, you know they're all doped, right? I mean, how else do you explain it? (wink, wink, nudge, nudge)" whenever an Austrian wins a medal? Mind you, not just once; you'd be subjected to reading that every single time they win one. Sure, you can ignore it and hope it goes away (which it wouldn't), but that'll only serve to make that meme enter "common knowledge" territory more quickly.

I'd take it as the good-natured ribbing it is meant to be, nothing more, and joke along with the light heart I have... after all, Austria has had its run-in with doping scandals, or at least allegations in the past (some not that distant!), just like certain other teams, individual athletes, or even whole sports have had their allegations. Poking a bit of fun at this is not above me. It's sports we are talking about here, not cancer! (Laughing...)

That said, I don't think I'll have to worry too much about it, cause Austria isn't exactly reknowned for heavy summer games medal counts (Blushing...) And in the winter department, everybody knows our skiers only win cause of that "wonder-wax" that is secretly developed by the Austrian government in a conspiracy with the North Koreans, and applied to all Austrian alpine athletes' skies! :-)

Edited December 2, 2003 by Zenjimoto

[Asashosakari 19,664]

I'd take it as the good-natured ribbing it is meant to be, nothing more, and joke along with the light heart I have...

Hmm, I knew I should've written that paragraph more clearly :-) ...what I meant is, there might be one person who only intends it as good-natured ribbing (equivalent to what you're doing about the yaocho issue here), but 5 or 10 others who would be dead serious about the accusation (as I have no doubt that Tom Quinn et al. actually believe their own diatribes) and who would make it clear that they're serious about it. That change your feeling on the issue? And, would you still be so sure that the first person is really only light-heartedly talking about the matter?

[Zenjimoto 40]

I'd take it as the good-natured ribbing it is meant to be, nothing more, and joke along with the light heart I have...

Hmm, I knew I should've written that paragraph more clearly :-) ...what I meant is, there might be one person who only intends it as good-natured ribbing (equivalent to what you're doing about the yaocho issue here), but 5 or 10 others who would be dead serious about the accusation (as I have no doubt that Tom Quinn et al. actually believe their own diatribes) and who would make it clear that they're serious about it. That change your feeling on the issue? And, would you still be so sure that the first person is really only light-heartedly talking about the matter?

Like I said, we are only talking about sports here... (Blushing...) If people make serious accusations about sports, then so be it... they'll be either true or untrue, or we may never know, but in the end, ... it's only sports. And there are much more important things to get really annoyed at, or to lose your sense of humor about. (Laughing...) Like, for example, what happens to all those left socks after you put them in the washing machine...

[Kotoseiya Yuichi 3]

As for our Rijicho's attitude towards Asashouryuu, I vehemently disagree. I think it was unbased , just plain hatred for a young kid who suddenly finds himself in a position no one prepared him for very quickly. I find this kind of attack grossly unfair, but everyone is entitled to his opinion, as we all know. Anyhow, it seems all Finns hate him for some mysterious reason..

I readily admit my stance on him is a very emotional one just like it was with Senna da Silva and is with elder Schumacher. I simply can't stand extraordinary sportsmen behave the way those three do or did. The combination of greatness and repulsiveness infuriates me. As if it were some kind of evil deviation in the course of the world.

Asashoryu is an exceptional rikishi in many ways and thoroughly deserves his yokozuna rank judged by his performances alone. He's a young guy who got famous too fast for his own good.

Even if I take all this into account, I simply can't stand his antics. Did anyone in recent times behave like him? (I do have one (bad?) candidate.) His behaviour is simply inexcusable, not worthy of a jonokuchi let alone a yokozuna. He won't change. I've known far too many people like him. None of them has changed. They have this inherent idea about their superiority over all life on Earth. I hate them. Always have, always will.

BTW, all Finns should probably be both Finns.

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

Lack of sense of humor and light-heartedness can be a real problem in this forum sometimes...

You guys need to lighten up a bit and stop taking everything super-serious... especially yourselves! :-)

Oh, you are very right. I take myself and everyone else too serious. Thanks for making that clear. I so LOVE those comments. Thanks. I shall relish that post and think back on it every time I almost take you seriously.