Ms. Uchidate- "We are not pleased!"

[Kintamayama 45,111]

Ms. Uchidate was on hand for yesterday's bouts, and is not happy with Asashouryuu at all. "I do not appreciate him. He is not doing any keiko, and is not a good Yokozuna. Winning isn't everything. He doesn't think of being prepared. As a Yokozuna, he has 2,3 'styles'" she added. "If he gets a zensho, everyone will ask "Uchidate, what the #$%^%$ are you talking about", but that's not true!", she summed.

Edited October 2, 2009 by Kintamayama

[Orion 431]

Ms. Uchidate was on hand for yesterday's bouts, and is not happy with Asashouryuu at all. "I do not appreciate him. He is not doing any keiko, and is not a good Yokozuna. Winning isn't everything. He doesn't think of being prepared. As a Yokozuna, he has 2,3 'styles'" she added. "If he gets a zensho, everyone will ask "Uchidate, what the #$%^%$ are you talking about", but that's not true!", she summed.

In his condition, and at his age (he is 29 tomorrow, Senshuraku), winning _is_ everything. Dammit, the man is a genius! even though he has to be lightning quick to get the bout clinched because he doesn't have the staying power any more. (Though I can sympathise with Ms. Uchidate also -- I am currently playing good-cop/bad-cop in another area of life and I think it's hard for her to abandon her stance; that is where she and I difffer.)

Orion, FWIW

[Kozaru 0]

Perhaps she's just bitter that it's been over 11 years since the last Japanese Yokozuna promotion, and will likely be at least 3 more.

[ilovesumo 12]

a Japanese in 3 years? hmmmm....

there are talents like Masunoyama, Homerefuji or that boy from Nishikido etc. but becoming Yokozuna is such a biiiig thing....

I see some future Sekitori. They will grow but will they bloom....?

[Kozaru 0]

I think it's funny how winning isn't everything, until a Yokozuna stops winning, in which case he is asked to retire. Do they consider the quality and frequency of his keiko then? "Oh, he can't win anymore, but he's trying really, really hard!" Face it, winning might not be everything, but it is damn near to being everything! Winning gets you promoted, and losing gets you retired.

[Treblemaker 254]

Ms. Uchidate was on hand for yesterday's bouts, and is not happy with Asashouryuu at all. "I do not appreciate him. He is not doing any keiko, and is not a good Yokozuna. Winning isn't everything. He doesn't think of being prepared. As a Yokozuna, he has 2,3 'styles'" she added. "If he gets a zensho, everyone will ask "Uchidate, what the #$%^%$ are you talking about", but that's not true!", she summed.

What they should do is draw a circle out in a parking lot somewhere and let Asa and Uchi go at it.

Is she nuts? (Well, of course she is, but still...) Does she represent the normal "Japanese" way of thinking about this? Are there other people who feel that, at 14-0, and showing the best form he's had in months, Asa is still "not fulfilling expectations"? Can someone please take her out on a date, for crying out loud, and get her drunk?

"No doing keiko....." He's been doing keiko this whole basho! For him, this is keiko.

"... not being prepared..." Seriously? When did she get cataracts?

"... has 2,3 styles..." Um, let's see... 14 matches, 8 different kimarite...

"Uchidate, what the #$%^%$ are you talking about", but that's not true!" Of course it's not. They'll be asking her, "Uchidate, are you bat-$hit crazy???"

Methinks this lady needs to stop looking in the mirror every morning. She keeps scaring herself.

Edit added: And for what it's worth, and from what I've seen in Juryo and lower, the next Japanese Yokozuna hasn't been born yet. If we can survive 2012, I figure it'll be at the very least 2015 at the very minimum before that happens. Certainly any native hope for that role currently in the upper levels has crashed and burned in this basho.

Edited September 26, 2009 by Treblemaker

[Asashosakari 19,319]

And for what it's worth, and from what I've seen in Juryo and lower, the next Japanese Yokozuna hasn't been born yet.

Well, what have you seen in juryo and lower? :-) Actually I wouldn't be entirely shocked if the next Japanese yokozuna is currently ranked Ms19w, but then I'm certainly in the process of becoming a Ryuden fanboy...

[Treblemaker 254]

And for what it's worth, and from what I've seen in Juryo and lower, the next Japanese Yokozuna hasn't been born yet.

Well, what have you seen in juryo and lower? :-) Actually I wouldn't be entirely shocked if the next Japanese yokozuna is currently ranked Ms19w, but then I'm certainly in the process of becoming a Ryuden fanboy...

Simple. Not being able to actually see any matches, I've been watching the results and the ratings over the last year or so, to see if anyone has caught fire, gone 7-0 consistently, moved up the ranks consistently, looking for promotions starting at Makushita and into Juryo, etc... So far as I can see, and I'll happily accept correction from anyone with better information, there just hasn't been that "guy" who climbs up the Ms ladder and into Juryo, bumping people off the wire with reckless abandon. And don't look to Juryo for the Saviour anytime soon. Best record this basho? Tamawashi at 10-4. Not earth-shaking dominance.

Honestly, I've love to see a native-born son kick a$$ all the way up. I'd be happy to see someone in Juryo go 15-0, then go crazy in the upper rank, but it just doesn't happen.

And we'll all be retired and sucking our gums by the time Goeido or Kise make Ozeki, if ever.

[Naganoyama 5,911]

...

Edit added: And for what it's worth, and from what I've seen in Juryo and lower, the next Japanese Yokozuna hasn't been born yet. If we can survive 2012, I figure it'll be at the very least 2015 at the very minimum before that happens. Certainly any native hope for that role currently in the upper levels has crashed and burned in this basho.

So what is happening in 2012 (specifically) that we need special measures to survive?

Surely they aren't testing that Wimbledon-style sliding roof over the entire planet to protect us from global warming? :-)

[Takamizawa 0]

My god, Uchidate is never happy :-). I'm really hard pressed to think of someone in the sumo world I dislike more than her...

[madorosumaru 7]

Ms. Uchidate was on hand for yesterday's bouts, and is not happy with Asashouryuu at all. "I do not appreciate him. He is not doing any keiko, and is not a good Yokozuna. Winning isn't everything. He doesn't think of being prepared. As a Yokozuna, he has 2,3 'styles'" she added. "If he gets a zensho, everyone will ask "Uchidate, what the #$%^%$ are you talking about", but that's not true!", she summed.

What Uchidate said was: "As an athlete, [Asashoryu] is first class, but as a yokozuna, he is second or third rate."

Her criticism is strictly concerning the amount of keiko. "It's not good that someone who doesn't do keiko wins the yusho. If he had been doing [proper] keiko, it would be okay, but as it is, I just don't like it."

Musashigawa Rijicho praised both yokozuna but he also brought up the matter of keiko. "I would be glad to see [Asashoryu] make a full comeback [from his recent problems], but I would also like to see him do more keiko [in the future]. If he did that, one would wonder just how much stronger he could be. After all, he is still young."

The sumo establishment is concerned that Ryu is setting a bad example for the younger rikishi. They feel that young prospects are not working nearly as hard as they used to in the old days. By winning without doing much keiko, Ryu is making a mockery of all their teachings and admonitions.

[Pippooshu 1]

Ms. Uchidate was on hand for yesterday's bouts, and is not happy with Asashouryuu at all. "I do not appreciate him. He is not doing any keiko, and is not a good Yokozuna. Winning isn't everything. He doesn't think of being prepared. As a Yokozuna, he has 2,3 'styles'" she added. "If he gets a zensho, everyone will ask "Uchidate, what the #$%^%$ are you talking about", but that's not true!", she summed.

I don't know...is it a joke? Are she joking, really? :-)

[wanderer 159]

There are always such people who makes career out of criticizing anything for anything, or tries to stay viable by criticizing anything for anything. I think Mrs. Uchidate has done a lot for sumo, but clearly trying to feel like an important person in Ozumo.

There is now another guy nowadays who apparently had a colorful career in sumo with sekiwake in its pinnacle. This guy seem to be developing a survival niche for himself in TV business by picking on Asashoryu.

Mrs. Uchidate should be taking care of her grand children, if she has any, instead of hissing at 29 year old Yokozuna for being 14-0.

That TV guy better be reflecting on what was it like to be thrown around by Yokozuna, and being able to be alive today.

[Asashosakari 19,319]

Not being able to actually see any matches, I've been watching the results and the ratings over the last year or so, to see if anyone has caught fire, gone 7-0 consistently, moved up the ranks consistently, looking for promotions starting at Makushita and into Juryo, etc...

Well, the only guys you'll find that way are absolute phenoms like Takanohana, and foreigners and (usually low-upside) collegiate rikishi who look "big" because they're too old for their banzuke levels. Using the wrong approach and expectations does indeed tend to produce disappointing results...

This might be a decent starting point for spotting guys who are on the way up. (It's the current makushita inhabitants sorted by age.) There's no Takanohana-like riser there, of course, but perhaps a potential Hokutoumi or two just might be found. It doesn't always take 6-1's and 7-0's to be consistently on the way up, and do keep in mind that the youngest recruits are only 15 years old - if they take 25 basho to reach juryo they're having a pretty awesome career to that point, notwithstanding the fact that that's obviously too slow to be "sexy" and catch the attention of absolutely everybody.

Edited September 26, 2009 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama 45,111]

Ms. Uchidate was on hand for yesterday's bouts, and is not happy with Asashouryuu at all. "I do not appreciate him. He is not doing any keiko, and is not a good Yokozuna. Winning isn't everything. He doesn't think of being prepared. As a Yokozuna, he has 2,3 'styles'" she added. "If he gets a zensho, everyone will ask "Uchidate, what the #$%^%$ are you talking about", but that's not true!", she summed.

What Uchidate said was: "As an athlete, [Asashoryu] is first class, but as a yokozuna, he is second or third rate."

Her criticism is strictly concerning the amount of keiko. "It's not good that someone who doesn't do keiko wins the yusho. If he had been doing [proper] keiko, it would be okay, but as it is, I just don't like it."

Musashigawa Rijicho praised both yokozuna but he also brought up the matter of keiko. "I would be glad to see [Asashoryu] make a full comeback [from his recent problems], but I would also like to see him do more keiko [in the future]. If he did that, one would wonder just how much stronger he could be. After all, he is still young."

The sumo establishment is concerned that Ryu is setting a bad example for the younger rikishi. They feel that young prospects are not working nearly as hard as they used to in the old days. By winning without doing much keiko, Ryu is making a mockery of all their teachings and admonitions.

I guess we translated different articles then. You translated Houchi, I translated Sponichi, where "As an athlete, Asashouryuu is first class" was not mentioned.

and she doesn't say "I don't like it", she says she "doesn't recognize it", or "for me, it doesn't count", which is a bit more condescending than "I don't like it". Of course she's on about it because he doesn't do any keiko, but "on the way", she puts in her two cents. Whatever the small details, the big picture is she's slagging Asa off royally, and not politely pointing out he has been doing insufficient keiko. The papers themselves call her attitude "strict" and both headlines say she doesn't "recognize" his wins, just like she doesn't "recognize" that he's a Yokozuna.

[madorosumaru 7]

横綱としては二流、三流と思います

That means second or third rate. I combined the quotes from the two articles to clarify her statement. As you know, the two writers are reporting from the same interview so the original quote most likely included both parts.

全勝はしっかり認めます

She acknowledges the fact that he is winning and gives him credit for it. What she doesn't recognize is that he is a "good" yokozuna for the reason that was mentioned. "I don't like it" is not the verbatim translation but it conveys the spirit of her quote.

Of course, she is harsh. She is a constant critic of Ryu. Just because she is a royal pain in the ass doesn't mean everything she says is wrong. Anyone that has been around this forum knows that I am not a fan of Uchidate and a long-time supporter of Ryu. But the simple truth is that the guy just doesn't do keiko and that bugs a lot of people to no end.

[Jonosuke 28]

I have been more or less an Uchidate apologist on this forum for long but I think she is being rather childish about the whole thing other than a fact that in sumo winning isn't everything and a yokozuna's worth is not just compiling winning records alone.

Just looking at this basho alone, what Asashoryu has accomplished is truly admirable as he has been pretty much dismissed prior to this basho from all pseudo experts and media types, a mere step shy of retirement.

While it's apparent that his training level as a yokozuna is lacking in many respects but the plain fact is that he has been winning (at least this basho) and been successful. If she does not want to recognize Asashoryu's achievement this basho, she should at least recognize the fact that all other top rikishi cannot beat him or equal to him despite doing all the training they wanted to do. Obviously there is something equally lacking in other rikishi heading down from ozeki group to high Makuuchi. Where were Harumafuji with all his training or so-called revitalized Koto-ozeki or turks like Tochinoshin and Baruto, perennial pretendors like Kisenosato and Goeido?

Winnning isn't everything but leaving a credible record means something and other than Hakuho, any other rikishi hasn't shown anything to write home about.

One must respect him for that alone.

[Kintamayama 45,111]

I have been more or less an Uchidate apologist on this forum for long but I think she is being rather childish about the whole thing other than a fact that in sumo winning isn't everything and a yokozuna's worth is not just compiling winning records alone.etc..

I think that sums up what I think too. My translations don't necessarily mean that they are my views. These are.

[Kintamayama 45,111]

横綱としては二流、三流と思います

That means second or third rate. I combined the quotes from the two articles to clarify her statement. As you know, the two writers are reporting from the same interview so the original quote most likely included both parts.

I screwed that one up royally for sure. I remind everyone that I wouldn't even attempt to do any of these if anyone else with far superior knowledge of Japanese than myself would step up and do them. Since no one is, I'm just chugging along "feeding the translation machine" as someone once put it..

[Ruziklao 34]

I remind everyone that I wouldn't even attempt to do any of these if anyone else with far superior knowledge of Japanese than myself would step up and do them. Since no one is, I'm just chugging along "feeding the translation machine" as someone once put it..

Needless to say, your efforts are highly appreciated :-)

[madorosumaru 7]

I remind everyone that I wouldn't even attempt to do any of these if anyone else with far superior knowledge of Japanese than myself would step up and do them. Since no one is, I'm just chugging along "feeding the translation machine" as someone once put it..

Needless to say, your efforts are highly appreciated :-)

I second the motion. Kinta performs an invaluable service for the forum.

There is a Japanese saying, "Even a monkey can fall off a tree." 猿も木から落ちる　What that means is that even an arboreal expert like a monkey can make a mistake.

Edited September 26, 2009 by madorosumaru

[Sumo Menko Man 13]

I understand the function of the YDC, but what is the background of Uchidate getting a seat on the council? It seems more often than not she only offers negative criticism. What real function does the YDC have when no ozeki are being considered for promotion?

[Fukurou 534]

...

Edit added: And for what it's worth, and from what I've seen in Juryo and lower, the next Japanese Yokozuna hasn't been born yet. If we can survive 2012, I figure it'll be at the very least 2015 at the very minimum before that happens. Certainly any native hope for that role currently in the upper levels has crashed and burned in this basho.

So what is happening in 2012 (specifically) that we need special measures to survive?

There are doomsday prophesies for 2012. The one I'm most familiar with is tied to the end of the Mayan calendar, on December 21.

[Kuroyama 715]

There are doomsday prophesies for 2012. The one I'm most familiar with is tied to the end of the Mayan calendar, on December 21.

Must... resist... urge to derail thread...

I suppose it might be true that Asa doesn't lend his chest as often as he should, but sheesh! She doesn't like him and is groping for reasons to criticize.

Edited September 26, 2009 by Kuroyama

[Kozaru 0]

They should strip Uchidate ..................... of her position on the council, and replace her with a foreigner.