Ms. Uchidate- "We are not pleased!"

[Treblemaker 254]

I have to agree here, what is that the Japanese word for it, "himaku"? I am not convinced that Asashoryu has got it. He is a superior dai yokozuna in terms of his power, skill, and yusho, but the special "wabi sabi" essence seems to be missing, IMHO.

Characteristics of the wabi-sabi aesthetic include asymmetry, asperity, simplicity, modesty, intimacy, and the suggestion of natural processes.

I am not sure I have ever heard a living thing described with that term, nor am I sure I would want a yokozuna who exudes most of these qualities. But to each his own.

The only person I know who would embody all of these attributes might be St. Igor (pronounced, Eye-gore), the patron saint of the "Hunchback of Notre Dame Lovers and Nudists Society".

[Treblemaker 254]

Ms. Uchidate clearly loves sumo. Asashoryu clearly loves sumo. The yokozuna has on occasion extended the olive branch. One would hope Ms. Uchidate could accept, and somehow find a way to offer constructive criticism and use the wisdom of her years and experience to subtly work with the yokozuna in achieving the common goal of popularizing sumo with the younger generations of Japanese.

(Laughing...) ;-) (Applauding...) (Laughing...) (Laughing...) (Eh?) (Clapping wildly...) (Blinking...) (Whatever above, it is funny...) (Applauding...) (Laughing...)

(Showing respect...) Thank you. That was the funniest thing I've read today, and I have to tell you - it made my day. (Whatever above, it is funny...)

LATE EDIT: I want to apologise for my mirth, and mean no disrespect... and as the saying goes, "From Your lips to Her ears..", and of course it would be the ideal, utopian solution to the ongoing Hatfield-McCoy relationship, but I have the feeling that it just isn't going to happen, according to all that I have read, especially here at the Forum.

If it does happen, (and I suppose there's a slim possibility) the banging sound you'll be hearing is the sound of many people's chins hitting floors all over Tokyo.

Edited October 1, 2009 by Treblemaker

[Murakami 0]

If what she says is true and if she really wants to keep the sumo strict to the letters, she should vehemently oppose the recruitment of foreign wrestlers. Asashoryu is just a big dung passing through the stream. There is bound to be more. The situation now is very similar to running around half naked waist down among strangers expecting everyone to be just friends.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

Ms. Uchidate clearly loves sumo. Asashoryu clearly loves sumo. The yokozuna has on occasion extended the olive branch. One would hope Ms. Uchidate could accept, and somehow find a way to offer constructive criticism and use the wisdom of her years and experience to subtly work with the yokozuna in achieving the common goal of popularizing sumo with the younger generations of Japanese.

(Laughing...) (Whatever above, it is funny...) (Applauding...) (Laughing...) (Laughing...) (Eh?) (Clapping wildly...) (Blinking...) (Whatever above, it is funny...) (Applauding...) (Laughing...)

(Showing respect...) Thank you. That was the funniest thing I've read today, and I have to tell you - it made my day. (Sign of approval...)

LATE EDIT: I want to apologise for my mirth, and mean no disrespect... and as the saying goes, "From Your lips to Her ears..", and of course it would be the ideal, utopian solution to the ongoing Hatfield-McCoy relationship, but I have the feeling that it just isn't going to happen, according to all that I have read, especially here at the Forum.

If it does happen, (and I suppose there's a slim possibility) the banging sound you'll be hearing is the sound of many people's chins hitting floors all over Tokyo.

[Kintamayama 45,530]

Oh, the irony..

[Treblemaker 254]

Oh, the irony..

He's not bad... ok, he's not good...

Put a mawashi on him and let's see what he's got...

(Watch out for stains, though....)

[Jonosuke 28]

If what she says is true and if she really wants to keep the sumo strict to the letters, she should vehemently oppose the recruitment of foreign wrestlers.

As far as I know, she never complains about any other foreign born rikishi. She didn't complain about Akebono nor Musashimaru either.

It has nothing to do with ethnicity but everything to do with wanton disregard of Ozumo traditions and customs.

[Murakami 0]

If what she says is true and if she really wants to keep the sumo strict to the letters, she should vehemently oppose the recruitment of foreign wrestlers.

As far as I know, she never complains about any other foreign born rikishi. She didn't complain about Akebono nor Musashimaru either.

It has nothing to do with ethnicity but everything to do with wanton disregard of Ozumo traditions and customs.

Asashoryu is just a big dung passing through the stream. There is bound to be more. The situation now is very similar to running around half naked waist down among strangers expecting everyone to be just friends.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

If what she says is true and if she really wants to keep the sumo strict to the letters, she should vehemently oppose the recruitment of foreign wrestlers.

As far as I know, she never complains about any other foreign born rikishi. She didn't complain about Akebono nor Musashimaru either.

It has nothing to do with ethnicity but everything to do with wanton disregard of Ozumo traditions and customs.

She joined the YDC in 2000? Do we have the date she joined. As Akebono's final honbasho was Kyushu 2000, she wouldn't have had much time to criticize. ;-)

Likewise, Musashimaru effectively retired the end of 2002. Oh, he participated in two basho in 2003, but went kyujo both times and called it quits after the second straight kyujo. And, IIRC, Ms. Uchidate did not hold her tongue regarding her feelings about his keiko, either...take this example from Hatsu Basho 2002:

Musashimaru will be competing, though he has complained of aches and pains in the last month or so. He missed a special keiko session for the Yokozuna Deliberation Council on Monday, and was roundly criticized by Makiko Uchidate, the only female member of the committee, for "lacking common sense as a member of society."

In a virtually unprecedented move, Musashigawa Oyakata (the yokozuna's mentor) and Musashimaru himself rebutted Uchidate's criticism as being unfounded. Uchidate is only 53 and by far the youngest member of the committee; all the other members are old men.

http://www.banzuke.com/02-1/msg00280.html

Edited October 3, 2009 by Otokonoyama

[Hananotaka 8]

The job of Makiko Uchidate is to criticize Yokozuna and chew bubble gum.

And she is all out of bubble gum.

[madorosumaru 7]

Ms. Uchidate clearly loves sumo . . .

Yes. Miss Uchidate loves sumo. One could call her the Japanese prototype for our own beloved ILS. By her own admission, she has been a fanatic fan since early girlhood. Her idol was Yokozuna Kagamisato (see photo) Most of you wouldn't know much about this yokozuna. He wasn't flashy and didn't have too many yusho to his name, but to many Japanese, he represented the ideal personification of a yokozuna with his "taiko-bara"--belly that looked like a Japanese drum. Most important of all, he possessed "hinkaku" galore.

In any case, as she gained success as a script writer for stage, screen and TV, her passion for sumo became widely known. Several of her works were about sumo, including "The Chiyonofuji Story." When there was an opening in the YDC in 2000, she was selected as the first woman to join that august group. Elsewhere in SF, someone suggested there should be a gaijin member of YDC some day. ILS immediately responded, "Me, me, me!" It may be an urban legend but there were stories that Uchidate pleaded in the same manner for her selection. ;-)

While the other members are content with just pontificating on sumo matters, Uchidate worked hard as a YDC member. She attends the Soken and visits heya keiko regularly. In addition, in 2003, she went back to school for her masters at University of Tohoku. To study what? "Religion and Sumo: Sumo as a Shinto Rite."

While at Tohoku U., she undertook the task of becoming the coach/manager of their sumo team. When she took over, it was a sad group of few kids with no place to practice. Her reputation and drive resulted in the successful recruitment of additional student rikishi and the construction of a dohyo. All of this can be read if you use SF's search function.

As mentioned earlier, I do not always agree with her since I am a fan of Asashoryu but there is absolutely no question in my mind that she is sincere and genuinely in love with sumo.

[Asameshimae 220]

I knew almost none of this. It is good to see the other side of things, and see her real love for the game, and the things she has done to promote sumo, and to make herself even more qualified for the job than she was.

If they ever let a woman on the dohyo, she should be the first... wait, she'd never go for it... ;-)

Edited October 5, 2009 by Asanomeshi

[ryafuji 815]

Article from the UK's Daily Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...elebration.html

[_the_mind_ 0]

As far as I know, she never complains about any other foreign born rikishi. She didn't complain about Akebono nor Musashimaru either.

It has nothing to do with ethnicity but everything to do with wanton disregard of Ozumo traditions and customs.

She joined the YDC in 2000? Do we have the date she joined. As Akebono's final honbasho was Kyushu 2000, she wouldn't have had much time to criticize. (Showing respect...)

Likewise, Musashimaru effectively retired the end of 2002. Oh, he participated in two basho in 2003, but went kyujo both times and called it quits after the second straight kyujo. And, IIRC, Ms. Uchidate did not hold her tongue regarding her feelings about his keiko, either...take this example from Hatsu Basho 2002:

Musashimaru will be competing, though he has complained of aches and pains in the last month or so. He missed a special keiko session for the Yokozuna Deliberation Council on Monday, and was roundly criticized by Makiko Uchidate, the only female member of the committee, for "lacking common sense as a member of society."

In a virtually unprecedented move, Musashigawa Oyakata (the yokozuna's mentor) and Musashimaru himself rebutted Uchidate's criticism as being unfounded. Uchidate is only 53 and by far the youngest member of the committee; all the other members are old men.

http://www.banzuke.com/02-1/msg00280.html

if the words quoted are the actual words she said about Moose (nothing lost in translation?) and if the quotes about Asa are also accurate, it just shows what a mean spirited person she is that she cant address her concerns in a more tactful way. she sounds VERY rude. ... i dont have an issue with her voicing concerns, but the way she does it is inordinantly rude and mean for no reason.

Edited October 7, 2009 by _the_mind_

[Hananotaka 8]

There's a little something lost in translation. The Japanese 社会人としての常識 is a (relatively) more common phrase in Japanese than it is in English. Coming from someone in her position, it is certainly harsh criticism, but it doesn't have that sense of rudeness. It's akin to saying "he's not fulfilling his responsibilities".

[Orion 431]

There's a little something lost in translation. The Japanese 社会人としての常識 is a (relatively) more common phrase in Japanese than it is in English. Coming from someone in her position, it is certainly harsh criticism, but it doesn't have that sense of rudeness. It's akin to saying "he's not fulfilling his responsibilities".

Agreed. 常識 (joshiki), while often mistranslated as 'common sense', usually means 'the accepted norms' or 'behavior that is to be expected'.

Orion

[Kintamayama 45,530]

Ms. Uchidate went to see a double bill championship night of boxing in Yoyogi. Hearing that Asashouryuu, who skipped keiko today, was there as well, she said: "I just finished writing a script and came here. He will not have another fluke yusho next basho. He should watch some pro-wrestling and boxing and learn from the 'way' some of these athletes enter the ring..". "I heard Ms. Uchidate was here and I looked for her but she was nowhere to be found.. Write down that I wanted to meet her!", said Asashouryuu.

[paolo 0]

.... "I heard Ms. Uchidate was here and I looked for her but she was nowhere to be found.. Write down that I wanted to meet her!", said Asashouryuu.

Don't tell me that Asashoryu is also witty ...

[Asameshimae 220]

Don't know about witty, but certainly sarcastic. It still amazes me to this day how little Japanese people understand sarcasm. It is just not part of their culture; certainly no where near to the extent it is a part of many other cultures.

[Kintamayama 45,530]

.... "I heard Ms. Uchidate was here and I looked for her but she was nowhere to be found.. Write down that I wanted to meet her!", said Asashouryuu.

Don't tell me that Asashoryu is also witty ...

Some of us, (or so I hear, "cough cough") know it for a fact.

[Kintamayama 45,530]

From the boxing match with Nishioka after his third title defense:

http://mainichi.jp/enta/sports/news/images...2000p_size5.jpg

Edited October 11, 2009 by Kintamayama

[Jonosuke 28]

Don't know about witty, but certainly sarcastic. It still amazes me to this day how little Japanese people understand sarcasm. It is just not part of their culture; certainly no where near to the extent it is a part of many other cultures.

And it also amazes me to this day how little those who have not lived long enough in another country to understand how seriously the people there take certain things....perhaps it's not a part of their culture. Some take some shallow while others do more deeply.

For instance Sumo is about pushing the other guy out of the dohyo or getting him to touch the ground other than the bottom of feet, nothing can be simpler. But some people around here appear to take it far more deeply than that or why else any reason to post to argue about it or abut its participants' conduct and comment.

Edited October 11, 2009 by Jonosuke

[Asameshimae 220]

Jonosuke, if there is one thing you have caught me at, it is being off topic, so I decided to start a new thread in the Japan discussion forum.

[Treblemaker 254]

For instance Sumo is about pushing the other guy out of the dohyo or getting him to touch the ground other than the bottom of feet, nothing can be simpler. But some people around here appear to take it far more deeply than that or why else any reason to post to argue about it or abut its participants' conduct and comment.

Not disagreeing, but the same can be said for any sport...

Hockey is all about large men in shorts running on sharp knives using a stick to hit a small, flat piece of black rubber into a fishnet...

Baseball is all about funny-dressed men in hats hitting a small ball with a stick, then running in circles...

Soccer (Fooootbal) is even simpler - a lot of men in shorts chasing a ball for an hour and a half, trying to kick it into an even larger fishnet.

Basketball (the best) is all about extremely tall, skinny, unusually-built men (who might not find employment in any other line of work) boucing a ball, running up and down a wooden floor, and trying to insert said ball through a 10-foot-high unguarded horizontal metal hoop.

Simple. So why is there a gazillion-dollar industry built all around the discussion and analysis of these simple games?

If sumo was such a simple thing, why are there dozens of official, systematically-catalogued ways to win a bout? Then you have lists of offensive and defensive moves and strategies, and no fewer than 6 (!) officials at ringside (one referee and five old guys with sometimes dubious eyesight), and a couple more in a booth somewhere, making sure each bout is correctly decided.

Of course some people around here take it seriously. Ok, maybe too seriously, but I suggest that the real reason for this is the opportunity to connect and discuss sumo topics with all sorts of very cool people from around the world that have the same interest.

For me, this is the reason I come here every day. I could easily follow the sport elsewhere, but the discussion and varied views from all contributors and their backgrounds and insights make the overall experience more interesting and fulfilling.

[Treblemaker 254]

Soccer is even simpler - a lot of men in shorts chasing a ball for an hour and a half, trying to kick it into an even larger fishnet.

Reminds me of Ms Doyle in "Escape from Victory" around the 10:30 mark.

I used to work with someone like that years ago... I think it cost me 5 years of my life and most of my hair....