Suppose Baruto....

[HenryK 38]

... gets 12 wins this basho -- would it suffice?

Or does the 9 in the last basho set him back too much (such that even a total of 33 or 34 would not cut it)?

Edited January 14, 2010 by HenryK

[Gusoyama 103]

I personally think he'd need 13 to even be considered, but in reality, there's no chance this basho. The party line of "He has set a good pace, but next basho is the real test."

[Kintamayama 45,116]

... gets 12 wins this basho -- would it suffice?

Or does the 9 in the last basho set him back too much (such that even a total of 33 or 34 would not cut it)?

From past experience, not a word about any Ozeki run prior to the basho anywhere by anyone pretty much negates that possibility.

[Asashosakari 19,320]

Hmm, I suppose it wouldn't totally surprise me, but if 12-9-12 in an all-sanyaku run isn't considered enough anymore, that would constitute quite a departure from recent and semi-recent precedent. There wasn't any talk before the basho, true, but if he's still on course after Day 10 or so we should be hearing something. Of course, that should require him to beat at least one yokozuna, as it's rather unlikely he'll go 8-0 against his other opponents. (That said, 12-9-12 without beating any yokozuna during the run might be a borderline 'no' after all...)

Edit: Wow, the mental force field is on again; I ended up responding to what Kinta wrote even though I didn't even see his post when I started typing...

Edit again: Hmm, on re-checking, there's a remarkably small amount of ozeki runs (successful and unsuccessful) that had a mediocre middle basho and didn't go way beyond the 33-win mark (as e.g. Taka/Waka at 14-10-11 and 14-10-13 did). Pretty much Akebono (13-8-13, successful but with only one Y and two O already there) and Kotomitsuki (13-9-12, unsuccessful but not all-sanyaku, and very early in his makuuchi career), so perhaps I shouldn't generalize too far.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Asashosakari

[kaiguma 0]

No talk of it means nothing really. There have just been more pressing manners on everyone's (reporters') minds so the question was just never asked.

With 13 it would definitely be discussed, though I imagine passed on without a win over a yokozuna as others have said. Even 13 wins without much forward moving sumo would likely fail, but Baruto doesn't seem to be doing much backpedaling this basho.

I guess it's all moot if he can't get more than 11 wins... (Shaking head...)

[Jejima 1,384]

... gets 12 wins this basho -- would it suffice?

Or does the 9 in the last basho set him back too much (such that even a total of 33 or 34 would not cut it)?

From past experience, not a word about any Ozeki run prior to the basho anywhere by anyone pretty much negates that possibility.

I don't think anyone was talking about Chiyotaikai's Ozeki chances going into his 'third' basho, after 9-6 and 10-5 in the previous two. A 13-2Y was enough for him to get the nod (and 32 wins in total).

But the 'first' of the three is the least important basho, so perhaps the middle '9' could cause him problems. However, a Yusho (or yusho equivalent, perhaps) *should* be enough, I guess....

[Asashosakari 19,320]

I don't think anyone was talking about Chiyotaikai's Ozeki chances going into his 'third' basho, after 9-6 and 10-5 in the previous two. A 13-2Y was enough for him to get the nod (and 32 wins in total).

I'm not so sure about that (predates my time though).

http://www.banzuke.com/99-1/msg00224.html

Sekiwake Chiyotaikai (Kokonoe Beya) will not be going home during this year's holiday season. At Kokonoe Beya, the training sessions for this year have ended on Sunday (Dec. 27) and on Monday the rikishis have participated in the beya's annual Japanese rice cake making event. The rikishis and stable workers will all be going home for the New Year holiday till January 3 when the next training sessions will be commencing at Kokonoe Beya.

But the man considered to be the closest to Ozeki is walking the walk, not just talking the talk, "Everyone is going home but I am not going back to my home in Ohita. I will be training here at the Beya. You need to train while others aren't."

http://www.banzuke.com/99-1/msg00581.html

"I had good concentration going in. I had a good 'tachi-ai'. But it was a type of defeat I hate most. I simply took it too easy," regretted Chiyotaikai who lost his winning streak at six since Day 1.

After the tachi-ai, Chiyotaikai with his left arm hugged Tosanoumi's head and pulled him in. Chiyotaikai left the dohyo first as Tosanoumi almost falling on top. "My opponent's hand was in my mawashi so I couldn't get him down" said Chiyotaikai.

It was a painful loss to a hiramaku rikishi as Chiyotaikai aims for the promotion to ozeki after the basho. Kokonoe oyakata who saw the bout as chief judge at dohyo-side today, made a harsher assessment, "He can't win four, five matches by 'hataki' (slap down). Go ahead and write I said, 'it isn't that easy'.

Edited January 15, 2010 by Asashosakari

[Shibata-gumi 1]

Atcually during day 1 and I think day 2, the English announcers were talking about Baruto going to Ozeki...they stated that a possible 12 win should do it BUT the big issue is that Baruto has never beat a Yokozuna...and he kinda needs that to truly get an Ozeki consideraion.

[Mattjila 0]

Atcually during day 1 and I think day 2, the English announcers were talking about Baruto going to Ozeki...they stated that a possible 12 win should do it BUT the big issue is that Baruto has never beat a Yokozuna...and he kinda needs that to truly get an Ozeki consideraion.

Yeah, I feel the same way. A victory tomorrow/today against Hakuho would go a loooooong way.

Has there ever been an Ozeki promotee with no kinboshi?

[Flohru 176]

Atcually during day 1 and I think day 2, the English announcers were talking about Baruto going to Ozeki...they stated that a possible 12 win should do it BUT the big issue is that Baruto has never beat a Yokozuna...and he kinda needs that to truly get an Ozeki consideraion.

Yeah, I feel the same way. A victory tomorrow/today against Hakuho would go a loooooong way.

Has there ever been an Ozeki promotee with no kinboshi?

Since 1990:

Ozeki promotee with no kinboshi: 4 (Kotooshu, Miyabiyama, Takanonami, Musashimaru)

Ozeki promotee with no win against a yokozuna (which is what you wanted to ask): 0

[Asashosakari 19,320]

Since 1990:

Ozeki promotee with no kinboshi: 4 (Kotooshu, Miyabiyama, Takanonami, Musashimaru)

Ozeki promotee with no win against a yokozuna (which is what you wanted to ask): 0

Since I was bored...3-basho performance against yokozuna prior to promotion, kadoban era:

Harumafuji

Edited January 15, 2010 by Asashosakari

[Sokkenaiyama 81]

This must be nitpick day... I think you got Hrmph's record wrong against the Yokozunas. I don't remember him winning any playoff bouts before his promotion.

[Asashosakari 19,320]

This must be nitpick day... I think you got Hrmph's record wrong against the Yokozunas. I don't remember him winning any playoff bouts before his promotion.

The danger of handtyping results in bulk...you're right of course, the +1 should go to the other side of the ledger.

[Pippooshu 1]

I think he will be Ozeki in this Hon-Basho.

[Kuroyama 715]

Atcually during day 1 and I think day 2, the English announcers were talking about Baruto going to Ozeki...they stated that a possible 12 win should do it BUT the big issue is that Baruto has never beat a Yokozuna...and he kinda needs that to truly get an Ozeki consideraion.

And since I don't speak Japanese I can't be ABSOLUTELY certain, but it sounded as if the Japanese-language commentators were talking about it today as well.

[Kotononami 86]

I think he will be Ozeki in this Hon-Basho.

No chance.

[VictorDiVarca 5]

You can could be promoted to Ozeki even with mk in previous 3 bashos before appearing as Ozeki in Banzuke.

Most of such "promotions" was ages ago, but there are some also in modern era. But I do not remember when actually current rules of promotion had been set.

Azumagamori***	1768.09 S1e 3-4-1	M30e 2-5-1	S1w 2-3-1-1a	1769.10 O1e
Washigahama	1779.10 S1e 5-1-4	S1e 0-0-6	S1e 9-1	1781.03 O1e
Shiranui	1796.10 K1e 4-4-1-1a	S1e 8-1-1	K1e 5-3-2	1798.03 O1e
Kimenzan***	1811.11 S1e 4-2-4	S1e 2-2-1	S1e 4-2-3-1d	1813.01 O1e
Shirakawa	1811.11 K1w 3-4-2-1d	K1w 3-1-1o	S1w 4-3-1-1d-1o	1813.01 O1w
Hiodoshi	1813.01 K1e 6-2-1-1d	K1e 5-1-1-2d-1o	S1e 0-0-10	1814.11 O1e
Tamagaki**	1813.01 M1w 5-1-2-2d	K1w 3-1-3-3d	M1w 0-0-10	1814.11 O1w
Genjiyama***	1824.01 S1e 2-5-2-1d	S1e 0-0-10	S1e 0-0-10	1825.10 O1e
Hiodoshi	1831.11 S1w 5-3	S1w 4-3-3	S1w 6-1-1-1d-1a	1833.11 O1w
Akitsukaze***	1833.02 K1w 3-0-4-2d-1o	S1w 3-0-5	S1w 2-1-7	1834.11 O1w
Koyanagi**	1834.11 S1e 5-0-3-2d	S1e 3-1-4-1d-1a	S1e 4-3-2-1d	1836.02 O1e
Oitekaze	1835.01 S1w 1-3-5-1d	K1w 5-0-2-3d	K1w 4-2	1836.11 O2w
Hiraiwa**	1837.10 K1e 4-1-4-1d	S1e 3-1-2	S1e 4-2-3-1o	1839.03 O2e
Noginosato	1837.10 M3w 5-1-3-1o	M1w 2-1-3	M1w 7-1-2	1839.03 O2w
Koyanagi	1851.02 S1e 2-1-1-1d	S1e 4-1-1-4d	S1e 3-2-2-3d	1852.11 O1e
Iozan	1854.11 S1e 6-2-1-1a	S1e 0-0	S1e 3-3-2-2a	1856.11 O1e
Kaigatake	1854.11 M1w 6-2-1-1d	S1w 0-0	S1w 4-1-4-1a	1856.11 O1w
Shiranui**	1860.10 S1w 3-3-1	S1w 4-2-4	S1w 6-1-2-1a	1862.03 O1w
Jinmaku	1865.02 S2eHD 0-0-10	S1e 6-0-1-1d-1a	S1e 6-1-2-1a	1866.11 O1w
Raiden	1875.04 S1e 0-0-10	S1e 7-2-1	S1e 5-1-2-2d	1877.01 O1w
Nishinoumi	1883.05 K1w 3-1-5-1d	S1w 5-1-1-3d	S1w 5-2-1-1d-1a	1885.01 O1w
Ichinoya**	1887.05 S1w 3-1-6	S1w 4-1-4-1a	S1w 7-0-1-2d	1889.01 O1w
Onaruto**	1889.01 S1e 4-2-4	S1e 0-2-5-2d-1a	K1e 4-2-2-2d	1890.05 O1w
Otohira	1891.05 M7w 4-2-4	M4w 7-1-2	S1w 6-1-1-2a	1893.01 O1w
Asashio	1897.01 S2eHD 6-2-1-1d	S1e 5-2-1-1d-1a	S1e 4-0-5-1a	1898.05 O1e
Araiwa	1904.01 M1e 6-1-1-1d-1a	K1e 4-0-5-1a	K1e 8-0-1-1d	1905.05 O1w
Kunimiyama	1904.01 S1e 6-2-1-1d	S1e 4-1-4-1d	S1e 9-0-1	1905.05 O1e
Nishinoumi	1908.05 S1w 7-1-1-1d	S1e 3-0-7	S1e 5-2-1-2d	1910.01 O1e
Kyushuzan	1917.01 M1w 6-4	K1w 7-3	S1e 4-3-2-1a	1918.05 O1e
Futabayama	1935.05 M1e 4-7	M3e 9-2 J	S1w 11-0 Y	1937.01 O1e
Saganohana	1943.05 S1e 7-6-2	K1w 13-2 Y	S1e 7-3	1944.11 O1e
Nayoroiwa	1944.11 S1e 7-3	S1w 3-4	S1w 6-4	1946.11 O1w
Shionoumi	1945.06 S2eHD 3-4	K1e 8-2	S1e 11-2 J	1947.06 O3wHD
Shionoumi	1949.01 S1e 4-9	M2w 10-5	S1e 10-5	1950.01 O2eHD
Wakahaguro	1959.05 S1e 7-8	K1w 11-4	S2wHD 12-3 J	1959.11 O1e
Kaiketsu	1974.09 S2eHD 7-8	K2wHD 12-3 Y	S1e 11-4 J	1975.03 O1w

* * 2mk (out of 3 basho) before Ozeki

*** 3mk (out of 3 basho) before Ozeki

Shionoumi has been promoted even twice. Kaiketsu is last lucky one (1974), but Y and J before promotion can be impressive.

[Kuroyama 715]

If it hasn't happened in 35 years, I think we can count on it not happening now.

However, I won't say he doesn't have a chance. It's highly unlikely, but if he can get 12 wins and beat a Yokozuna or two along the way, I'd be very surprised if he didn't get at least serious consideration.

[Shibata-gumi 1]

SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He FINALLY DID IT!!!! Now if Baruto can keep it up and get at least 13 or maybe even 12, he is definitly IMO a consideration for Ozeki. Good job Baruto!

[sekihiryu 51]

that was a sweet moment for the big man. He played his won game; utilizing his immense power rather than trying to play Hakuho's game.

Not too may could pull a throw like that off.

[Torabayama 51]

Amazing! :-(

[Oshirokita 188]

Nice win, that removes one doubt about his abilities, but I would say he will not get ozeki next basho without winning the yusho this basho. Anything less will just lead to the next basho results. (and maybe Kaio & Mickey will be kadoban then...)

[Barang 0]

(Clapping wildly...) (Clapping wildly...) (Clapping wildly...) Big Day for Baruto and whole Estonian sport (Holiday feeling...) (Holiday feeling...) :-( (Sigh...)

[Babaryutaikai 1]

(Clapping wildly...) (Clapping wildly...) (Clapping wildly...) Big Day for Baruto and whole Estonian sport (Holiday feeling...) (Holiday feeling...) :-( (Sigh...)

Yessssss! I was so excited I'm not sure I got a decent photo!

[ilovesumo 12]

They need a big competitor for the white Yokozuna...who knows.

But loosing a Japanese Ozeki, filling the gap by promoting a gaijin who laggs in loving Japan more than his life, married to an other gaijin, 2 other Japanese oldie Ozeki to follow Taikai in the near future...hmmm not a good combination if you ask me. I say promotion if there is no other way out anymore...and there are many excuses left.

Edited January 16, 2010 by ilovesumo