Hakuho to break another record?

[Jejima 1,384]

I was thinking it after the March basho, but did not want to be too premature.....

But...

I think that Hakuho has a reasonable chance of beating Futabayama's record of a 69 undefeated bout streak.

He is now on 32 consecutive wins (his last loss was to Kaio!), so needs two more zensho yusho in July and September, plus wins over the first week of November to get it.

I know it is unlikely (just one bad day at the office)..... But am I the only one to think he has a fighting chance of doing it? I'd say about 40%.....

Edit: Change 'very good chance' to a 'reasonable chance'.

Edited May 23, 2010 by Jejima

[Blue_Wolf 24]

Is Futabayama won 69 consecutive bouts in 15 day tournements?

[Washuyama 641]

I think it would be exciting to watch, but I think sometime over the next couple basho Baruto is gonna make a yusho run.

[Jejima 1,384]

Is Futabayama won 69 consecutive bouts in 15 day tournements?

They were in 11 and then 13 day bashos, at the time when there were only two bashos every year.

[ryafuji 814]

If he becomes the first to score three consecutive 15-0s in July, then I'll start thinking it might be possible.

[Chiyozakura 148]

A record that seems easier to reach for Hakuho is the zensho Yusho record. Futabayama and Taiho lead in that category with 8 zensho, followed by Kitanoumi and Chiyonofuji with 7. Hakuho now has 6 and has achieved that milestone quicker than anybody else in the 15 day era. On fifth position on that list is Asashoryu with 5, so Hakuho has after the most wins in a calender year managed to overtake Asashoryu in that respect as well. I am very sceptcial about the 69 straight wins, though. Besides good health you also need a good portion of luck and to go rensho, and with dangerous opponents like Kotooshu, Harumafuji and Baruto he will need a lot of luck to stay undefeated for another two basho. Not to mention my personal upset of the decade against Shotenro...

[Gusoyama 103]

69 wins in a row is just as unbeatable as 56 straight games with a hit in baseball. Like you said, all it takes is one day, and in sumo, one henka.

Edited May 24, 2010 by Gusoyama

[Treblemaker 254]

Is Futabayama won 69 consecutive bouts in 15 day tournements?

They were in 11 and then 13 day bashos, at the time when there were only two bashos every year.

This is a good point.. and I wonder what the competition might have been like back then...

Well to get anywhere close, he's got to zensho the next 2 bashos to being him to 62 wins. Honestly, while I would love to have him do it, I don't see it happening.

He's going to go down, and it's going to be somewhere other than Tokyo. There are notoriously slippery floors elsewhere, and that's all it's going to take.

[Kintamayama 45,111]

An interesting story is Taihou's attempt at the 69 (shut up), which was stopped at 45 (in 1968-1969) by a wrong call by the judges, ultimately leading to the advent of video and later, to the LP (33). 15 day bashos X 6 like today.

Edited May 24, 2010 by Kintamayama

[Asashosakari 19,319]

[Treblemaker 254]

Well, records seem to be made to be broken.. Sawchuck's 103 shutouts and wins record, Babe Ruth's home runs, and so on (not to mention an old bunch of Al Jolson's 78's). It's just a matter of time and luck.

I mean, when Kaio started, who pegged him to win 1000 bouts?

69 is do-able, but it won't be easy. (It never is...)

[Washuyama 641]

Just to head off the "who was it" question.. Toda

[Jejima 1,384]

Perhaps my recollection is not that great, but I think a lot of fuss was made when Asashoryu got the record for the most wins in a calendar year. I felt at that time that record would last for a long, long time.

Then Hakuho quietly beat it last year - and is on course for defeating his own record again this year.

Whilst it is not quite the '100 yushos' claim that someone thought was possible for Asashoryu at one stage, I do think that he is a good candidate for getting near the 32 yushos of Taiho....

[Washuyama 641]

I do think that he is a good candidate for getting near the 32 yushos of Taiho....

I wholeheartedly agree. Of course, just as in the 69-rensho discussion, the maturation of Baruto and one or more not-yet-determined rikishi will play a major factor over the next 5-6 years..

[Asameshimae 220]

I know this is not unknown to most, but even if Hakuho did beat Futabayama's streak, I would still see Futabayama as the better, as it took him 3 years to achieve this feat with only 2 tournaments a year. Having said that, though Hakuho is maddeningly consistent; who knows how far he could go?

[Jakusotsu 5,969]

I know this is not unknown to most, but even if Hakuho did beat Futabayama's streak, I would still see Futabayama as the better, as it took him 3 years to achieve this feat with only 2 tournaments a year.

I'm not so sure about that. One could say Futabayama had to be consistent for a longer time span, but on the other hand Hakuho has the tighter schedule with less breathing space which might be more exhausting.

[Kuroyama 715]

I know this is not unknown to most, but even if Hakuho did beat Futabayama's streak, I would still see Futabayama as the better, as it took him 3 years to achieve this feat with only 2 tournaments a year.

I'm not so sure about that. One could say Futabayama had to be consistent for a longer time span, but on the other hand Hakuho has the tighter schedule with less breathing space which might be more exhausting.

I imagine that it makes a big difference having 6 months to recover from injuries rather than just 2, even minor ones.

[Tom 0]

I think he certainly has a chance. I used to not really like Hakuho since he became a Yokozuna, but he gradually won me over, every basho I see him fight he impresses me more and more. His fighting spirit, his ferocity, his humbleness,... a truly great Yokozuna. (that being said, I liked Asashoryu very much, but, at least partly, for the wrong reasons:))

[Chisaiyama 11]

He's going to go down, and it's going to be somewhere other than Tokyo. There are notoriously slippery floors elsewhere, and that's all it's going to take.

Lex nailed it here. Futabayama competed, as has been noted, in an era of 2 basho per year and of 11 & 13 day durations but more importantly only in the Kokugikan. The Nagoya, Osaka & Fukuoka bashos were added much later and as their dohyos are constructed of (I have to presume) of local materials not of the same rice, clay and sand as that in the kokugikan bashos. I have been watching and following sumo since 1972 and I have never seen the dohyos in Tokyo be as slippery and, let's face it, dangerous as those in the remote sites, especially Nagoya. Perhaps it is that July heat or something drys the sand on the surface I don't know but I believe if he fails in the 69 rensho attempt it will be outside Tokyo. This is one record I would like to see broken in the modern era because any Yokozuna who can accomplish it will have to be hailed as truly the "Greatest" of all time.

[Doitsuyama 1,185]

He's going to go down, and it's going to be somewhere other than Tokyo. There are notoriously slippery floors elsewhere, and that's all it's going to take.

Lex nailed it here. Futabayama competed, as has been noted, in an era of 2 basho per year and of 11 & 13 day durations but more importantly only in the Kokugikan. The Nagoya, Osaka & Fukuoka bashos were added much later and as their dohyos are constructed of (I have to presume) of local materials not of the same rice, clay and sand as that in the kokugikan bashos. I have been watching and following sumo since 1972 and I have never seen the dohyos in Tokyo be as slippery and, let's face it, dangerous as those in the remote sites, especially Nagoya. Perhaps it is that July heat or something drys the sand on the surface I don't know but I believe if he fails in the 69 rensho attempt it will be outside Tokyo. This is one record I would like to see broken in the modern era because any Yokozuna who can accomplish it will have to be hailed as truly the "Greatest" of all time.

You are probably right that his next loss will be out of Tokyo, because his next 15 bouts are (if he doesn't miss the Nagoya basho of course). That said, Hakuho is holding is own particularly well out of Tokyo as he was 87-3 in the last two years with six yusho compared to "only"83-7 and two yusho in Tokyo. (Rensho record or not, going 170-10 over a two year period should another record hard to beat).

[Asashosakari 19,319]

I recall regular griping (okay, this is perhaps a bit strong) about Hakuho having a very hesitant tachiai in some tournaments. I always figured that just meant he wasn't in 100% condition for that basho, but is it possible that he's actually approaching his bouts differently outside of Tokyo for dohyo reasons? Can't say I've ever tracked those comments against the tournament locations, but now I'm wondering...

[Treblemaker 254]

I recall regular griping (okay, this is perhaps a bit strong) about Hakuho having a very hesitant tachiai in some tournaments. I always figured that just meant he wasn't in 100% condition for that basho, but is it possible that he's actually approaching his bouts differently outside of Tokyo for dohyo reasons? Can't say I've ever tracked those comments against the tournament locations, but now I'm wondering...

Excellent point! - and something I never noticed... IF he's going into the tachi-ai not only aware of his opponent but also conscious of the dohyo conditions and thus altering his approach, then he's a far more complete and intelligent package than I realized.

Definitely something to keep an eye on.

Edit: To add to that, I'm going to try to keep track of the riskishi who seem to have trouble with the surface, and see if there's a pattern of "pusher-thrusters vs mawashi men" or "bigger vs smaller", etc... Would be an interesting database... and perhaps helpful to those sumo gamers who, I'm sure, would put the information to good use... (Thinking in depth...)

Edited May 27, 2010 by Treblemaker

[Bealzbob 0]

Interesting. Is there anecdotal evidence of which dohyos are perceived to be more troublesome than others? Or is it simply a Tokyo/non-Tokyo thing?

[Harry 67]

Last year in Nagoya it was like someone put grease or oil on the dohyo, there was a lot of slipping and sliding.

[ryafuji 814]

Meh. In tennis you have to get used to different surfaces at the Grand Slams. Same with golf; you have to adjust to completely different courses. Why should sumo be different.