New committee established to deal with gamblers

[ilovesumo 12]

Gambler Blues

Tada tada tada

#snip#

Yeah yeah yeah

Come on, give us some downloadable MP3 ...

[ilovesumo 12]

What Viki pointed out will make another dimension. If they are already in temporary location, they might as well be merged with another. Everyone including the Kyokai knows we have way too many heya, they certainly can close down a dozen or so easily.

But they should close those of low quality down, NOT Onomatsu etc....

You kow what I mean...

Mergers work iside the darn ichimon - this is not rational at all...

Give up on ichimon! IMHO

[Kintamayama 45,504]

At the rijikai today, Takanohana pleaded with all present not to collectively punish all of the Ounomatsu boys. 10 people from the heya were implicated in the scandal. "There are some real fine young kids in Ounomatsu beya too. There are guys who did not partake in baseball gambling. Shouldn't we be helping them?", he asked.

Nothing written about how this was resolved.

[Asashosakari 19,648]

FWIW, today's morning Sport Hochi update says that jomei/expulsion is virtually certain for Otake, though still nothing in the way of details of what repercussions this would have. Additionally, some more information about betting habits have come out: Apparently Kotomitsuki was active "only" in the 10,000-50,000 yen per bet range, while Otake was high-rolling it to the tune of 200,000-500,000, was apparently a regular guest to "back casinos" (whatever those are) since becoming an oyakata, and per one testimony even owed money to his own deshi Roho at one point due to his mounting gambling debts.

Oh yeah, and Hochi flatly contradicts yesterday's Sponichi report and says that the closure of Otake-beya is a certainty.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

I'm guessing back casinos are something like this (back-alley, or something along those lines): http://www.bigempire.com/sake/casino.html

[Asashosakari 19,648]

At the rijikai today, Takanohana pleaded with all present not to collectively punish all of the Ounomatsu boys. 10 people from the heya were implicated in the scandal. "There are some real fine young kids in Ounomatsu beya too. There are guys who did not partake in baseball gambling. Shouldn't we be helping them?", he asked.

Yeah, apparently I was wrong about this in another thread:

My only surprise is that no one elaborated in this thread that this probably is not on him personally but because he happens to be from Onomatsu-beya...

I don't know about that. All of Onomatsu-beya is currently under house arrest, but I haven't read anything that they're collectively suspended as well, so my assumption is that he and Daido did gamble.

Some of today's articles are essentially saying that "suspension" and "kinshin/confinement/house arrest" are completely equivalent here, meaning that the Onomatsu guys are all going to be suspended from Nagoya basho if nothing changes. This seems pretty weird to me - wasn't e.g. Baruto put on kinshin for a fairly long period of time recently but still allowed to participate in the basho? (Or was that a kinshin instituted by his shisho, not the Kyokai?) I do recall that Kyokutenho got the kinshin+suspension thing as well, but back then it seemed like the "main penalty" was the suspension, and confinement was just an add-on. Now it seems like it's supposed to be the other way around and rikishi being suspended from a basho is merely a side-effect of the confinement. Strange.

[Kotoviki 16]

At the rijikai today, Takanohana pleaded with all present not to collectively punish all of the Ounomatsu boys. 10 people from the heya were implicated in the scandal. "There are some real fine young kids in Ounomatsu beya too. There are guys who did not partake in baseball gambling. Shouldn't we be helping them?", he asked.

Yeah, apparently I was wrong about this in another thread:

My only surprise is that no one elaborated in this thread that this probably is not on him personally but because he happens to be from Onomatsu-beya...

I don't know about that. All of Onomatsu-beya is currently under house arrest, but I haven't read anything that they're collectively suspended as well, so my assumption is that he and Daido did gamble.

Some of today's articles are essentially saying that "suspension" and "kinshin/confinement/house arrest" are completely equivalent here, meaning that the Onomatsu guys are all going to be suspended from Nagoya basho if nothing changes. This seems pretty weird to me - wasn't e.g. Baruto put on kinshin for a fairly long period of time recently but still allowed to participate in the basho? (Or was that a kinshin instituted by his shisho, not the Kyokai?) I do recall that Kyokutenho got the kinshin+suspension thing as well, but back then it seemed like the "main penalty" was the suspension, and confinement was just an add-on. Now it seems like it's supposed to be the other way around and rikishi being suspended from a basho is merely a side-effect of the confinement. Strange.

That is harsh for all the Onomatsu boys to end up suspended!! But in one way I do get their rationale as it "seems" Onomatsu beya was operating as a "casino" if you believe the way Katayama puts it...

Anyway I'm happy to hear that Takanohana is trying to stick up for the innocent boys. Onomatsu was a big supporter of Takanohana and he lost a lot of friends there. When I mentioned his name around oyakata who were not supporting Takanohana I was given really strange looks... and told by one they were certainly not friends..

I worried that with this scandal Onomatsu needs all the friends he can get and that making those enemies may hurt him. I also worried, well I still worry if Takanohana will try to help him or leave him out to dry and wash his hands of the mess. Though it seems he tries to help the rikishi it doesn't mean he is/will stand up for oyakata. He could suggest the innoncents join his heya in Nagoya for now?

And as for the Baruto kinshin, I "seem to remember" him saying it was his shisho who instituted it, not the kyokai but I could be wrong. And it was a suspension before the basho for a certain amount of time which did not include the basho.

[Kotoviki 16]

FWIW, today's morning Sport Hochi update says that jomei/expulsion is virtually certain for Otake, though still nothing in the way of details of what repercussions this would have. Additionally, some more information about betting habits have come out: Apparently Kotomitsuki was active "only" in the 10,000-50,000 yen per bet range, while Otake was high-rolling it to the tune of 200,000-500,000, was apparently a regular guest to "back casinos" (whatever those are) since becoming an oyakata, and per one testimony even owed money to his own deshi Roho at one point due to his mounting gambling debts.

Oh yeah, and Hochi flatly contradicts yesterday's Sponichi report and says that the closure of Otake-beya is a certainty.

This goes in line with my theory that no matter how much Kotomitsuki or others were betting it is going to be played down now as Otake has become the fall guy. This is Japan, someone has to do the "saving face" resignation and accept all the responsibility. It was the first thing that came to my mind yesterday when I watched a bit of his interview on my mobile phone tv.. it took me about 3 seconds to listen to him and think that! Whether or not Kotomitsuki gets kicked out Otake will continue to take as much pressure off him as he can since it is clear he has to go anyway. I am somewhat certain that he did not decide this all on his own either and that he was consulted with by other oyakata and asked to do it. In Japanese companies when this happens the person who "saves the face" of the company gets taken care of financially in the end. I would not be surprised if this is all arranged within the kyokai. The Kyokai is after all a Japanese Business...

I do not claim this to be the truth it is just my opinion but it fits the scenario so well!

[Asashosakari 19,648]

I think he was the only Oyakata to actually gamble on baseball himself. although I'm pretty sure I read that Tokitsukaze did as well.

Otake was considered to be a regular and has been known to be a high roller while Tokitsukaze was more conservative, so he is on the edge. The reason his name comes up is because of his position of authority and an individual expected to coach and lead his recruits.

Do we actually know that Tokitsukaze has gambled while being an oyakata, or did he just admit to doing stuff while still an active rikishi?

An answer at last: Gambled on baseball only as an active rikishi, so he's primarily getting dinged for being an oyakata now, for being involved in the weird "stop blackmailing Kotomitsuki!" meeting with the ex-rikishi, and for initially lying to the special committee.

Tough luck in a way...without the Tokitaizan incident he might actually still be an active rikishi right now (and perhaps still a gambler, admittedly), so because he was pressed into oyakata service three years ago he might now face a harsher penalty than other guys who did pretty much the same thing.

[Kotoviki 16]

I think he was the only Oyakata to actually gamble on baseball himself. although I'm pretty sure I read that Tokitsukaze did as well.

Otake was considered to be a regular and has been known to be a high roller while Tokitsukaze was more conservative, so he is on the edge. The reason his name comes up is because of his position of authority and an individual expected to coach and lead his recruits.

Do we actually know that Tokitsukaze has gambled while being an oyakata, or did he just admit to doing stuff while still an active rikishi?

An answer at last: Gambled on baseball only as an active rikishi, so he's primarily getting dinged for being an oyakata now, for being involved in the weird "stop blackmailing Kotomitsuki!" meeting with the ex-rikishi, and for initially lying to the special committee.

Tough luck in a way...without the Tokitaizan incident he might actually still be an active rikishi right now (and perhaps still a gambler, admittedly), so because he was pressed into oyakata service three years ago he might now face a harsher penalty than other guys who did pretty much the same thing.

hmm if he hadn't lied at first he could be better off...

There is always the defense he can use that he did stop gambling when he became an oyakata and got more responsibility. Testimony that Toyonoshima will say later... "he even tried to make me stop baseball gambling as well.."

with a prayer he could come out of this better than we may think... heck even Otake may come forward and say he "ordered" him to go along to the meeting for support! Never know....

[Asashosakari 19,648]

And as usual the "shoot from the hip" style of punishment decisions results in a mess, though at least this time it's the special committee's fault... It's quickly dawning on people that having that dozen shishos under house arrest is actually pretty impractical, what with the basho not taking place in Tokyo and several of those stables not having any other affiliated oyakata who could travel to Nagoya and supervise their rikishi (and in any case not being willing to accept responsibility if something goes wrong there without the shisho available).

The directors seemingly tried to put some common-sense adjustments on the table in the Monday meeting, such as allowing the affected oyakatas to travel to Nagoya and get confined in their temporary lodgings instead so that they're at least around for keiko and rikishi supervision, if not their administrative Kyokai duties, but that didn't go over so well as it would be obviously be quite a different and lesser punishment than originally intended. It remains to be seen if and how that gets resolves by the time the July 4th meeting rolls around when the various penalties are assessed officially.

[Kotoviki 16]

And as usual the "shoot from the hip" style of punishment decisions results in a mess, though at least this time it's the special committee's fault... It's quickly dawning on people that having that dozen shishos under house arrest is actually pretty impractical, what with the basho not taking place in Tokyo and several of those stables not having any other affiliated oyakata who could travel to Nagoya and supervise their rikishi (and in any case not being willing to accept responsibility if something goes wrong there without the shisho available).

The directors seemingly tried to put some common-sense adjustments on the table in the Monday meeting, such as allowing the affected oyakatas to travel to Nagoya and get confined in their temporary lodgings instead so that they're at least around for keiko and rikishi supervision, if not their administrative Kyokai duties, but that didn't go over so well as it would be obviously be quite a different and lesser punishment than originally intended. It remains to be seen if and how that gets resolves by the time the July 4th meeting rolls around when the various penalties are assessed officially.

I thought about this right away when I saw how many of them don't even have other oyakata to supervise. My first thought though was that they would have an extra oyakata from the same ichimon watch over them. And the Okamisan can be responsible for them as well of course. What do you think??

[Kotoviki 16]

A co-worker just mentioned to me when I got to school that he watched the news this afternoon and they said Futagoyama will take over Otake beya.

I'm assuming that is the official news but not sure. I like him, we're friends, it won't be so bad! Tough luck for Otake! Anyway when I was at keiko it is usually Futagoyama running things while I rarely have seen Otake at keiko, just a few times.

[Kintamayama 45,504]

The Kyokai has explained what it means by "house arrest" today, in case someone forgot. The only three places you can be are the keiko-ba, your home, or in the hospital. This includes the Nagoya lodgings and keikoba. This is contrary to what chairman Ito said-he specifically said "stay away from Nagoya". All will be made clear on July 2nd when the next meeting is to be held.

[Kintamayama 45,504]

Interesting take, or should we say Oo-take on Ootake

Oo-take two

Edited June 29, 2010 by Kintamayama

[Kotoviki 16]

The Kyokai has explained what it means by "house arrest" today, in case someone forgot. The only three places you can be are the keiko-ba, your home, or in the hospital. This includes the Nagoya lodgings and keikoba. This is contrary to what chairman Ito said-he specifically said "stay away from Nagoya". All will be made clear on July 2nd when the next meeting is to be held.

Apparently Tokitsukaze is not in Tokyo under house arrest as here he is in Nagoya today with Toyonoshima donning mawashi praying for the rikishi who was killed.

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/sports/news...0na014000c.html

sorry can not insert link with the tab above from this over protected school pc!!!

[Kintamayama 45,504]

The Kyokai has explained what it means by "house arrest" today, in case someone forgot. The only three places you can be are the keiko-ba, your home, or in the hospital. This includes the Nagoya lodgings and keikoba. This is contrary to what chairman Ito said-he specifically said "stay away from Nagoya". All will be made clear on July 2nd when the next meeting is to be held.

Apparently Tokitsukaze is not in Tokyo under house arrest as here he is in Nagoya today with Toyonoshima donning mawashi praying for the rikishi who was killed.

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/sports/news...0na014000c.html

sorry can not insert link with the tab above from this over protected school pc!!!

That's because nothing is formal yet, it's all speculation and hearsay.. In any case the Kyokai has made it clear that Nagoya is within the bounds of the punishment and iintends to clarify that when the official decision and punishments will be announced, i.e. July 4th.

[Kintamayama 45,504]

The acting rijicho in Musashigawa's absence will be outside member Murayama (73) former prosecutor at the Tokyo public prosecutor's office. He will be officially nominated on July 4th. This, after the Education Ministry leaned heavily on the Kyokai to decide on a replacement as quickly as possible.

[Jonosuke 28]

The Kyokai is running around like a chicken with its head cut off. They couldn't figure out how to set up cordless phones correctly so all the phone calls went unanswered the whole day. Aomori Asahi TV pulled out their sponsorship of the jungyo and the Aomori stop was cancelled yesterday but they could not even get a comment from a Kyokai official until late in the day when the director of Jungyo Hanaregoma oyakata released a brief note saying it was regrettable.

No one appeared to know who is in charge and who is coordinating the operations. They know Tokitsukaze is losing more than money and oyakata rank but they have not come to any decision it's all business as usual. Even suspended rikishi have not been told what they are supposed to do as their oyakata was supposed to be not doing anything. It's a total mess in Nagoya in Ryogoku at the moment.

[Asashosakari 19,648]

The Kyokai is running around like a chicken with its head cut off. They couldn't figure out how to set up cordless phones correctly so all the phone calls went unanswered the whole day. Aomori Asahi TV pulled out their sponsorship of the jungyo and the Aomori stop was cancelled yesterday but they could not even get a comment from a Kyokai official until late in the day when the director of Jungyo Hanaregoma oyakata released a brief note saying it was regrettable.

No one appeared to know who is in charge and who is coordinating the operations. They know Tokitsukaze is losing more than money and oyakata rank but they have not come to any decision it's all business as usual. Even suspended rikishi have not been told what they are supposed to do as their oyakata was supposed to be not doing anything. It's a total mess in Nagoya in Ryogoku at the moment.

How shocking that extremely unusual and unforeseen circumstances are resulting in somewhat less orderly business than usual. Can we dial back the hysteria a bit, perhaps? (Help me...) It's bad enough that the news media are in a constant frenzy and contradicting themselves and each other at a rate of at least twice a day. If the Kyokai is a headless chicken right now, they're hardly the only ones who might match that description.

[ilovesumo 12]

No wonder - I mean, if the "head" has to resign all the time for (Censored...) he hadn't done , there cannot be a real, strong leader (who'd be needed I'd say)...kida like in politics... (Help me...)

responsibility is an important thing, but kinda (Censored...) if it's used to chop the head off to make space for the next ones...

This system SUX.

IMHO

[kame 0]

I really feel for old Tokitsuumi. He's been paying for other people's mistakes/crimes the past few years. He was such a clean rikishi, practically forced to retire after the haze killing to take over the heya, not at his prime for sure, but he was still in good shape and wanted to keep doing sumo. And now this...

[Kintamayama 45,504]

The acting rijicho in Musashigawa's absence will be outside member Murayama (73) former prosecutor at the Tokyo public prosecutor's office. He will be officially nominated on July 4th. This, after the Education Ministry leaned heavily on the Kyokai to decide on a replacement as quickly as possible.

Not so fast, mister! The Kyokai bigwigs (Kitanoumi, Hanaregoma, Tomozuna, Nishonoseki,Takanohana and Kagamiyama) are against an outsider being the temp rijicho and are suggesting number three Hanaregoma Oyakata for the job. This will interestingly complicate things. Papers say if this will happen, the Kyokai will again be criticized for not really cleaning up their act.

Edited June 29, 2010 by Kintamayama

[Asashosakari 19,648]

The Kyokai bigwigs (Kitanoumi, Hanaregoma, Tomozuna, Nishonoseki,Takanohana and Kagamiyama) are against an outsider being the temp rijicho and are suggesting number three Hanaregoma Oyakata for the job.

Even more confusingly, from a Daily Yomiuri article that Gaijingai linked on the SML:

On Sunday, the head of the panel, Shigeru Ito, a professor of engineering at Waseda University, implied he was going to recommend Murayama to the JSA.

But at Monday's meetings, Murayama was not specifically put forward.

"We don't want an outside executive to become chairman," one JSA director said. "I shouldn't say this, but I don't think it's necessary to have an acting chairman."

At Monday's meeting, Ito caused surprise by suggesting Musashigawa's suspension not be enforced with absolute strictness.

"There's no problem with Musashigawa delivering a speech on the first and last day of the Nagoya tournament," Ito said.

"In addition, there's no problem with him attending a board of directors meeting [on the eighth day] of the tournament," Ito said.

One director asked, "What would happen to the acting chairman post when Musashigawa's suspension ends?"

Ito replied, "There would be no acting chairman post."

Makes ya wonder what the point of the "acting rijicho" song-and-dance is supposed to be in that case...

[Jonosuke 28]

The reason Murayama's name is bandied about is because Ministry of Education and Science people no longer have faith in the Kyokai old guards to clean up the mess or conduct themselves like other less profile business do. The Education guys were totally dismayed seeing the Kyokai swallowing Kotomitsuki's lies and basically patting themselves on their back on coming up with a conclusion no one at the Kyokai was involved in baseball gambling and denied the weekly Shincho article outright. Of course this only lasted so long as outside directors started making their noise asking more rigorous investigation.

They all expected the Kyokai directors to go against their opinion but we all know they are still in the ministry's dog house and they can even now not to give a sanction to hold the basho or even start a process to take away the Kyokai's privileges as a public foundation so it's interesting to see how this unfolds. If the Kyokai put forth their own, the new man must really show he means business as there may not be the next time and they lose their comfy tax exemption status.