madorosumaru 7 Posted January 11, 2011 Sanspo photo of half-empty Kokugikan According to news reports, 5,118 tickets remained unsold for Day 3 of Hatsu Basho. This total is a new record for any one day since the new KK opened in Ryogoku in 1985. The previous record was 4,973 for Day 3 of 2010 Natsu Basho. Since the official capacity for the KK is 10,500, almost half of the seats were unoccupied. What makes it even sadder is that Hatsu Basho is normally the best attended for the year. Though it was SRO on Shonichi, Day 2, which was on a holiday, did not reach that level and Day 3 fell far short. For those who may insist that fans are staying away because of the new, restrictive seating rules, it is clear also from the TV ratings that people are disinterested period. One report compared the Day 1 ratings for the last three years: 2009 - 18.3%; 2010 - 14.3%; 2011 - 10.2%. Interestingly, Day 2 ratings were at 19.8%. Lest anyone gets even a bit optimistic, the Day 3 number was down, way down, to ice-cold-water-in-the-face sobering 3.1%. Why the uptick on Day 2? As reported elsewhere, that was the day that the Demon was the guest commentator on NHK. No, the Demon is not in hot water. He is just plain hot! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asameshimae 220 Posted January 11, 2011 Yeah, I was surprised at all the empty seats when I was there on Monday, a national holiday. Funny as much as people seemed to love to hate Asashoryu (besides Osakans), they tuned it to watch him and hate him it would seem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shumitto 418 Posted January 12, 2011 Unfortunately it is not a new trend. The seat-emptiness coupled with a lack of TV coverage gave the impression the last Nagoya Basho was some amateur event. And it happens at all venues, Tokyo included. Which makes things look better is the zabuton colour. Were it not for their tax-privileges and millifold support, sumo would go out of business. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Treblemaker 254 Posted January 12, 2011 Hmmm.... It would seem that getting rid of the "Impurity" in Sumo also got rid of the fans.... Go figure. Yup. That move worked really well. Fans will come back as they used to when/if there's a good drawing card, scandals or not. Right now, it's obvious there isn't a draw unless there's a winning streak going on. That became obvious in November by Day 3. Which means lots of empty seats. For a long time. In the year since, the hope that someone, anyone would fill the gap hasn't materialized. And that won't happen for a while. A long while. The Purists must be delighted, as few as they are. Well, the zabutons are a nice colour. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asameshimae 220 Posted January 12, 2011 Yes, when I noticed the new zabutons, I was wondering how they could whip this up into the newest scandal... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,384 Posted January 12, 2011 Clearly in previous bashos half the 'fans' were actually yakuza chaps passing on messages to half the TV audience (more yakuza chaps). Now that the yakuza are no longer welcome, the numbers are down both in the kokugikan and the TV ratings.... :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kotoviki 16 Posted January 12, 2011 I have been taking pictures of the emptiness for the last 4 days! :-) (Shaking head...) (Shaking head...) (Shaking head...) Shonichi was tight upstairs... but I still managed to find a 2nd row mukojomen seat until 6pm as there were some empty seats upstairs and looking downstairs there were even some empty boxes.. however it was ok! My friend lined up at 7am to buy a general admission ticket on Shonichi and got number 65, when I walked over from the hotel at 8:30 they still had plenty of general admission tickets for sale as there was a very long line and the guards were counting people to when they would be sold out! Monday I was on the first floor and it was awful to see so many empty seats on a national holiday! it looked even more empty with the fact that the boxes were totally empty til about 3pm since masu bingo is not a sport in the sumo world anymore! The last two days they still had general admission tickets well past noon. In the past on regular weekdays my friend has gotten there at 11am and they were sold out already. It was empty upstairs and downstairs but mostly downstairs!!! It is also freezing cold inside without any bodies to warm things up. I guess they are saving on heating cost by not turning anything on to warm us up! We were wearing coats all day in the upstairs!! I believe it is very true that the reason for the empty seats is first because of Asashoryu, the sales went down a lot after he retired.. but also because it looks so boring on tv now with the empty seats! In September it was also empty and boring looking so come the next Tokyo basho people remembered how boring it was on tv and didn't buy tickets. Of course there are also people who aren't buying 2nd floor tickets because they can't sit at the first floor anymore! I hear regulars all around me saying "no more Tokyo basho" for them! Just going to Osaka, Nagoya and Fukuoka from now on!!! Maybe if Tokyo could sell a 1st floor half day ticket for a cheap price......LOL since most of the people I know can take or leave watching from juryo since they can see it on tv or on digest they would be interested in a cheap 1st floor half day ticket! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 5,960 Posted January 12, 2011 Maybe if Tokyo could sell a 1st floor half day ticket for a cheap price......LOL since most of the people I know can take or leave watching from juryo since they can see it on tv or on digest they would be interested in a cheap 1st floor half day ticket! Nice idea, but I don't think it can work legally. Suppose all the owners of the regular masu tickets would show up before juryo, no matter how unlikely, what would you do with the people with a half day ticket? Also, the shuffling of seats would become even more obtrusive when people suddenly have a right to sit there but don't know where exactly. Me, I strongly consider not travelling to a Tokyo basho anymore as long as this new rule is being enforced. Even if I might buy a masu ticket for myself, the lack of atmosphere is simply too depressing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shumitto 418 Posted January 12, 2011 (edited) Well, with white zabutons it would look even worse. One big reason some Japanese (at least the ones I know) are not showing up is the lack of a true Japanese talent. I remember two years ago a friend of mine told me : "I used to enjoy Kisenosato, but he has been stagnated...." . Truth be told, after this 2 years very little has changed. Without someone Japanese talent vying for the yusho or a an ozeki promotion it's unlikely to change those empty seats... Edited January 12, 2011 by shumitto Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sekihiryu 51 Posted January 12, 2011 Seems to be a reflection of my sumo enthusiasm which is very low too right now. Hmmm. Blase Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chiyozakura 145 Posted January 12, 2011 I see three major reasons for this: 1. General disinterest in sumo. Since the mid 90's attendence and ratings have gone down steadily. Sumo has become an old people's sport with less and less young fans. I see this as the major problem for the NSK. 2. No strong Japanese rikishi. The winningst Japanese rikishi last year was Tochiozan. That says it all. He may be a talent, but he just had one good basho at Sekiwake. No Yusho race, no serious attempt at Ozeki. He is an also-ran. Kisenosato has not improved in the last two years and I see no other Japanese rikishi with the potential to seriously fight for the Yusho out of the joi-jin at least once. It is a sad situation if you have to hope for 16year old Sandanme kid like Tatsu to be the next Japanese to do it. 3. No competition for the Yusho. With Asashoryu's retirement Hakuho's Yusho has been a foregone conclusion in each and every basho. The Ozeki all stopped performing after being promoted. None of them has had more than one really good basho at that rank. Having one Kaio hang on forever is nice, but having guys ten or more years his junior just hanging on to their ranks is boring. I do not have the feeling that any of them are seriously gunning for the Yusho or have a chance to join Hakuho at the top rank. And this is not Hakuho's fault, but the other rikishis'. He can deal one loss to each of them per basho, not more. So why can nobody at least go 11-4 constantly and light a little hope of taking it one step further? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 5,960 Posted January 12, 2011 3. No competition for the Yusho. With Asashoryu's retirement Hakuho's Yusho has been a foregone conclusion in each and every basho. The Ozeki all stopped performing after being promoted. None of them has had more than one really good basho at that rank. Having one Kaio hang on forever is nice, but having guys ten or more years his junior just hanging on to their ranks is boring. I do not have the feeling that any of them are seriously gunning for the Yusho or have a chance to join Hakuho at the top rank. To be fair, I don't think Baruto or Harumafuji have completely lost their spark yet. Still miles away from Hakuho's level though, and not really able to generate excitement at the moment. This, and of course not being Japanese either. Perhaps dumping Kotomitsuki wasn't the smartest of moves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harry 67 Posted January 12, 2011 So, where do you sit now if you buy a jiyuuseki seat? Anywhere in the upper floor until the proper ticket holders come? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kotoviki 16 Posted January 12, 2011 Maybe if Tokyo could sell a 1st floor half day ticket for a cheap price......LOL since most of the people I know can take or leave watching from juryo since they can see it on tv or on digest they would be interested in a cheap 1st floor half day ticket! Nice idea, but I don't think it can work legally. Suppose all the owners of the regular masu tickets would show up before juryo, no matter how unlikely, what would you do with the people with a half day ticket? Also, the shuffling of seats would become even more obtrusive when people suddenly have a right to sit there but don't know where exactly. Me, I strongly consider not travelling to a Tokyo basho anymore as long as this new rule is being enforced. Even if I might buy a masu ticket for myself, the lack of atmosphere is simply too depressing. Yes, of course this would never work but it would be nice especially for the old men... It is such a shame that it is so empty. It never looked so empty downstairs before!! I agree with you about coming here unless the rule is changed. In fact I have bought a one person masu ticket for Saturday and I realize that I don't want to sit all day all alone!!! I often did this before as the old men always had cheap tickets and we'd sit together til 2 or 3 or whatever they'd move back as people came, sometimes even getting to stay on the 1st floor on weekends, sometimes moving 2nd floor or going back to the hotel and watching tv and I would go to my masu box and watch the last few hours alone. That is ok! It isn't great but it is ok and I sit on the hanamichi and am busy taking lots of pictures of the tsukibito lining up with zabuton!!! :-P But I imagine sitting alone anywhere all day long for 10 hours on the first floor I'm already bored and it is only Wednesday! There is a big lack of atmosphere! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kotoviki 16 Posted January 12, 2011 (edited) So, where do you sit now if you buy a jiyuuseki seat? Anywhere in the upper floor until the proper ticket holders come? Yes, now we play chair bingo!! and to tell you the truth it is even worse to play the new game. The rules are unclear! At least before you see a tea pot you jump up but now there is very rarely an ochaya seating them although in the first row A seats there are a lot of chaya seats but also the ushers who I hope don't get paid much because like they did you in Nagoya they really don't even know where the seats are themselves. They are usually (today a girl was nice) more rude than the ochaya and insist to check your ticket and help you to your seat. The people themselves coming to their seats are half the time at the wrong seat and the other half are angry you are sitting there. They don't understand chair bingo. Edited January 12, 2011 by Kotoviki Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kotoviki 16 Posted January 12, 2011 I agree that Baruto and Harumafuji are still there for the excitement and still getting lots of cheers. Not yet at Hakuho's level but not stagnant as the others! I believe there is still hope! I too want to see more Japanese talent!! I long for the day Kisenosato becomes Ozeki...yokozuna as all Japanese do!! I want to see more Japanese in the sport. More STRONG Japanese in the sport. Some people assume I am foreign and that I only want to support foreign rikishi but I don't think at all about them being Japanese or not I just want to support the ones I like no matter who they are. I will admit that there is a huge spark in interest for Toyonoshima! He really is getting more cheers than the others right now. Though I do realize he is not anywhere near the level of Ozeki or Yokozuna material yet he is at least getting some sparks in the hearts of the fans! But not enough to sell more tickets yet! And a PS to those who are hoping for Tatsu!! :-P A lot of people here in Japan believe in him already. I hope he makes everyone happy! He is a very good kid as well and comes from a nice family!! I'm meeting his father for dinner Friday night. He's coming for the weekend to catch one of Tatsu's matches! Then he'll come back again for senshuraku to the party. Tatsu has very good family support!!! Just disappointing that he lost yesterday! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harry 67 Posted January 12, 2011 (edited) So, where do you sit now if you buy a jiyuuseki seat? Anywhere in the upper floor until the proper ticket holders come? Yes, now we play chair bingo!! and to tell you the truth it is even worse to play the new game. The rules are unclear! At least before you see a tea pot you jump up but now there is very rarely an ochaya seating them although in the first row A seats there are a lot of chaya seats but also the ushers who I hope don't get paid much because like they did you in Nagoya they really don't even know where the seats are themselves. They are usually (today a girl was nice) more rude than the ochaya and insist to check your ticket and help you to your seat. The people themselves coming to their seats are half the time at the wrong seat and the other half are angry you are sitting there. They don't understand chair bingo. Hmm, chair bingo doesn't have quite the same ring to it :-P Sadly I may already have seen the best sumo I'll ever see, I doubt I'll sit in the tamariseki again as we were able to do quite easily before, sometimes even into musubi-no-ichiban if the yakuza that was supposed to take that seat never bothered to show up. Is Nagoya as strict? Osaka? Having to ask every day at 8:30am for a Japanese programme rather than the English one that beings at juryo was cute at first but annoying after that. And having been carted all the way around to my seat and then, again usually at 8:30am, asked how many beers I wanted was quite funny. Not beers for later as I first thought they were asking, but as I discovered later they were asking how many beers I wanted to drink right now! No wonder some guys are completely plastered well before makuuchi starts. Edited January 12, 2011 by Harry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
madorosumaru 7 Posted January 13, 2011 Speaking of zabuton, the tamari seats at the KK have new cushions. Green ones--"the better to see [bad elements] with . . ." The Kyokai explained, "We are doing our darndest to keep out [the undesirables]. There is a separate entrance and check-in. The new color for the zabuton is to make that section stand out more so it can be easily monitored." One candid oyakata was overheard to say, "Well, the previous cushions were getting old and worn out." This way, they can get some brownie points from the Ministry. Sanspo photo of spanking new zabuton Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fay 1,677 Posted January 13, 2011 Speaking of zabuton, the tamari seats at the KK have new cushions. Green ones--"the better to see [bad elements] with . . ."The Kyokai explained, "We are doing our darndest to keep out [the undesirables]. There is a separate entrance and check-in. The new color for the zabuton is to make that section stand out more so it can be easily monitored." One candid oyakata was overheard to say, "Well, the previous cushions were getting old and worn out." This way, they can get some brownie points from the Ministry. Sanspo photo of spanking new zabuton at least they are thicker than the old ones ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sekitori 492 Posted January 13, 2011 I have never understood why makunouchi bouts begin in late afternoon when many people are still at work. Tradition, I guess. Since sumo is trying to make changes that will make it more popular with the general public, why not delay the starting times of bouts in both juryo and makunouchi divisions about three hours, at least on weekdays? Makunouchi bouts would start about seven PM and would be over by nine. I think those times would be much more convenient for many fans who no longer attend the bashos. Can you imagine what attendance at NBA or NHL games would be if they start at four PM on weekdays? While later starting times won't result in complete sellouts every day of a basho, they could be of considerable help in increasing attendance. I believe this idea is worth trying, at least on a limited basis at first. If it gets results, it should be instituted permanently. People have become used to traditional practices and because of that, there often is hesitance to change them. But if they impede real progress, they must be changed. Of course, some will say that having bouts start later is not a good idea because it will upset the present routines of rikishis, oyakatas, and others connected to sumo. But since everyone's routine will be changed equally, that should be no problem. Eventually, everyone will get used to the later starting time--and the fans should benefit most of all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asojima 2,874 Posted January 13, 2011 Makunouchi bouts would start about seven PM and would be over by nine. I think those times would be much more convenient for many fans who no longer attend the bashos. It would also be in the middle of NHK primetime, which would mean would loss of its TV coverage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kotoviki 16 Posted January 13, 2011 Makunouchi bouts would start about seven PM and would be over by nine. I think those times would be much more convenient for many fans who no longer attend the bashos. It would also be in the middle of NHK primetime, which would mean would loss of its TV coverage. Very true! They would lose tv coverage but maybe they could gain attendance! I also understand how you feel Asojima about the bouts starting so early. I also agree that for some it would make going easier! I have a few things to say on that point though. For some it might make it easier to attend because they could come after work but it would also be such a long day for some guests. Living in Japan I hear a lot of complaining about long days. I certainly have my own long days leaving home at 6:30 and arriving home at 23:00 during usual work days but maybe I am more ok with it than others? There would be complaints that if finished at 8pm or whatever and then they had to take the train home blah blah and arrived at midnight... Another thing is that traditionally and still to some extent going to sumo was a way to gather the office staff and leave work at 1430 or 1500 to go to sumo at 1500 or 1530. They got to have free time from work as an office gathering. This is also true for some times of other parties like hanami (flower watching) and fireworks festivals, etc. If it started later there is no way to have that excuse to get out of work earlier. On the sumo side... It would be impossible (I think) for the kyokai as a whole. Rikishi wake up the same time during basho and non basho. During basho most heya can not take a nap, many boys complain they are exhausted. They would still have to get up as early, have a little keiko and then off for their own sumo. The whole day would shift later by starting at say 11 or 12? but they do not usually eat before their match so that means even the youngest who woke up the earliest would not get anything to eat til way after lunch time. I know some sekitori eat and some dont but it would be hard to wait til after 9pm!! another big part of sumo is koenkai, tanimachi, supporters who go to the heya at night to eat and drink. That would start from 9pm??? the youngest boys would never get any sleep. serving them and then cleaning up. Some people have the last train before 11pm. While that does not seem to be the most important point they do need those supporters and this kind of thing is important in Japan! I think I am missing something I want to say but I have a group of maybe enthusiastic college students who are waiting right now!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asojima 2,874 Posted January 13, 2011 Cut out TV, and the Osaka, Nagoya, and Fukuoka basho would atrophy due to lack of continuity of interest. Jungyos would finally die. Sumo would exist only in the Tokyo area. Outlying koenkai would dry up. Recruiting would be a nightmare. Seems a big price to pay to get few more seats filled. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kotoviki 16 Posted January 13, 2011 Cut out TV, and the Osaka, Nagoya, and Fukuoka basho would atrophy due to lack of continuity of interest. Jungyos would finally die. Sumo would exist only in the Tokyo area. Outlying koenkai would dry up. Recruiting would be a nightmare. Seems a big price to pay to get few more seats filled. very well said! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kotoviki 16 Posted January 15, 2011 Finally today it was full!!!! Really full!!! Of course a lot of people came after 1630 but still came!!!! Good for sumo!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
