Rikishi Talk Day 3 Hatsu Basho 2011

[Jonosuke 28]

Asofuji (Juryo East 8, 1-2)

--------------------------------

(Getting his first win this basho)

"I finally got my first! Hello people, a Happy New Year! I am so relieved."

(In the Hatsu Basho last year, also losing two straight bouts but won his third day, ending up with 8 win and 7 loss record)

"You know we just got started. I just want to avoid another consecutive losses."

(On January 17, Day 9, celebrating his 35th birthday.)

"Actually I can't afford to be enjoying something like a birthday right about now. Beside I am no longer at an age I need to be celebrated, you know. I'd rather want to have my birthday some other day out of basho."

(But appeared to be keeping track of his record on his birthday as when asked if he had more wins than losses on his birthday, he responded quickly.)

"I think I have been winning more actually."

"I am moving well. As long as I can lift my chin up, I will be OK."

Tokusegawa (3-0) over Homasho

--------------------------------------------

(With Aminishiki facing Hakuho today, Tokusegawa experienced his first duty as Tachimochi in the yokozuna dohyo-iri ceremony. While admitting he was tense during the ceremoney, in his bout he beat Asasekiryu getting into his favorite Migi-yotsu and winning his third straight.)

"I tell you I was so nervous, my hands were shaking."

(Back in the last Nagoya Basho when he served as Tsuyuharai, he also won.)

"I guess this really brings me a good fortune."

Tochinonada (3-0) over Sokokurai

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(A veteran winning three straight from Day 1 for the first time since the 2009 Hatsu Basho.)

"I am in a good groove but whatever it is, it's from now on that I need to take care of."

Goeido (1-2) over Kyokutenho

-----------------------------------

(Learning from his first two days, went out low with Migi-yotsu deliberately.)

"In the last two days my sumo was rather rough. Like I didn't finish my moves and tried to force unnecessary."

(After winning 12 bouts last basho, getting himself back to East M5 position this basho.)

"Hogher up in the ranks, everyone is really sharp and powerful. I need to take more care in every move I make."

Kotoshogiku (3-0) over Tamawashi

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(Three straight wins after returning to sekiwake this basho.)

"As long as I can hit my opponent with power at tachiai, I know I can go with my own flow."

(On the night before the Day 1, was told by Sadogatake oyakata to put more pressure on himself this basho.)

"I am actually amazed at myself how good I have been doing, how well I can get into my form so far."

Tochiozan (1-2) losing to Kisenosato

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(Considered Kisenosato to be one of his rivals.)

"He is obviously one opponent I do not want to lose at all."

Kisenosato (2-1) over Tochiozan

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(Getting himself sharp compared to the previous day bout and blew away Tochiozan out of the dohyo.)

"I actually wanted to decide the outcome by one push but he is really good technically."

(And much more talkative today as after the loss yesterday he did not utter a single word.)

"The winning factor today was the tachiai. Obviously I need to go with my own sumo. Period."

(Often considered to be a rival of Tochiozan as their age is close)

"I hate people comparing him to me. Actually I hate to be compared."

Naruto oyakata (former Yokozuna Takanosato), Kisenosato's shisho

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(On Kisenosato's loss in the first two days.)

"I felt that the fact he beat Hakuho last basho put more undue pressure on him."

Hanaregoma oyakata, Kyokai chairman

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(On Kisenosato)

"We can't really say whether his sumo became stable or not at this point."

Kotooshu (2-1) over Toyonoshima

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(Winning a close boutl against Toyonoshima after a mono-ii.)

"I knew I already won it so I really did not attempt to stay at all cost. Why try to kill yourself when you know you've won. But it's true you never know until the very end."

(Commenting on Toyonoshima's success last basho, winning 14 bouts.)

"Well, you should understand that the caliber of sumo at this level is totally different from lower Makuuchi. As far as I am concerned, he was just plain lucky, nothing more."

Kaio (2-1) over Tochinoshin

--------------------------------

(Getting himself into his favorite form and winning the bout.)

"I was able to get into hidari-yotsu so I just kept going on offensive." (still his conditions are not the best as requiring a painkiller shot for his right knee injury.)

Harumafuji (3-0) over Kakuryu

-----------------------------------

(Overwhelming pesky Kakuryu)

"You know I am pushing forward."

"I am happy about the bout today."

(Still suffering from right ankle injury which forced him to withdraw from the last basho.)

"I am going with all physical and mental powers I am capable of generating so I don't have any space to feel the pain. But we know what matters is what happens from now on. It is all up to now on."

Hakuho (3-0) over Aminishiki

------------------------------------

(Calmly throwing out trickster Aminishiki)

"I was able to go with my own sumo. I was able to respond well. I am basically trying to remember what I have done last year and go with it."

(Pointed out that his normal sumo has been to receive his opponents in the past but this basho he has been taking initiatives and bouts have been finishing quickly.)

"I am not sure if I am consciously trying to do it but perhaps somewhere in my mind, I am going that way. But then I don't really think about something like that seriously."

Former Ozeki Kotomitsuki, Keiji Tamiya, 34, disclosed that he would be preparing to file a full suit at the Tokyo Regional Court to reverse the decision by the Sumo Kyokai to oust him from Ozumo. However his lawyer says he has not discussed with former Kotomitsuki himself so Kotomitsuki's precise plan is not clear at the moment but Kotomitsuki expressed that he still wanted to get back in Ozumo during a preliminary court hearing held last September. At the time the court declined to take in his case.

According to the Kyokai's PR Department, 5,118 tickets went unsold on Day 3, making it the worst ticket sale day in the Kokugikan's sumo history since they moved into the building in January 1985. With the capacity seating for Ozumo being 10,500, it meant that the half of seats were vacant on Day 3.

It appears that Ozumo has not truly recovered from the aftermath of baseball gambling problems and a series of incidents they have gone through in the last

several years. Another factor may be lack of quality opponents against Hakuho, making a basho rather predictable.

Normally as the first basho of year, Hatsu Basho tends to attract more fans but while they had a sellout on the Day 1, they could not fill out the arena on Day 2, holiday Monday.

Record:

Takekaze, Kokkai - 300th Makuuchi win

Attendance: 5,500

[Kuroyama 715]

I don't thank you for these as much as I really should. Rikishi Talk is always a must-read thread for me.

Is it just me, or was Osh being seriously dickish here?

[ryafuji 814]

Is it just me, or was Osh being seriously dickish here?

I'm just hoping that something got lost in translation. How good is his Japanese?

[Jakusotsu 5,914]

Is it just me, or was Osh being seriously dickish here?

I hate to admit it, but I totally agree with Osh.

[Mikiro 0]

I oft think I need to thank you each time you provide Rikishi Talk for us. Without you doing this I would have exactly ZERO chance of ever knowing any of the information you provide. During any basho the first thing I look for on this wonderful website every day is Rikishi Talk.

[Kuroyama 715]

Is it just me, or was Osh being seriously dickish here?

I hate to admit it, but I totally agree with Osh.

I wasn't necessarily disagreeing, and after several years following this sport I'm still too inexpert to judge for myself. All I mean is that saying so like that doesn't seem quite the thing.

[Naganoyama 5,890]

<Rant on>

Who is Kotooshu to denigrate someone who provided such exciting sumo and brought the basho alive for once? Winning 14 bouts is not just "lucky", even with the weaker competition at the bottom of makuuchi. Maybe if Kotooshu were to get 14-1 that would be lucky (or do I mean a miracle?)

If either Kotooshu or Toyonoshima had been forced to sit out the last basho, I know which of the two I would have missed less.

Kotooshu is jealous of Toyonoshima's success - he probably doesn't like him because he finds him to be a tough opponent on many occasions. He's also vain and can't stand hearing other people being praised.

I try to like Kotooshu, but at times like this I find it very hard.

What a git!

</Rant off>

Edit: Of course Toyonoshima was extremely lucky to beat two ozeki, whereas Kotooshu managed to lose the only ozeki bout he fought. Also it must be really galling to see all the girls trailing after Toyonoshima.

Edited January 13, 2011 by Naganoyama

[Flohru 176]

Kotooshu is jealous of Toyonoshima's success

I think you are overreacting a bit. I don't know if Kotooshu is vain (IMHO he simply considers Toyonoshima as a personal rival), but why would he be jealous of Toyonoshima's success? They are the same age, but Kotooshu has been ozeki for five years now, already winning a makuuchi yusho and not having a make-koshi for the last 16 basho, all things Toyonoshima (personal best as a sekitori: three kachi-koshi in a row!) most likely never will accomplish. Probably Osh just wanted to show the press that he is far more aware than them that Toyonoshima's last bashosimply was a fluke - which is, of course, what it was, despite his impressive performance.

[Naganoyama 5,890]

Kotooshu is jealous of Toyonoshima's success

I think you are overreacting a bit. I don't know if Kotooshu is vain (IMHO he simply considers Toyonoshima as a personal rival), but why would he be jealous of Toyonoshima's success? They are the same age, but Kotooshu has been ozeki for five years now, already winning a makuuchi yusho and not having a make-koshi for the last 16 basho, all things Toyonoshima (personal best as a sekitori: three kachi-koshi in a row!) most likely never will accomplish. Probably Osh just wanted to show the press that he is far more aware than them that Toyonoshima's last bashosimply was a fluke - which is, of course, what it was, despite his impressive performance.

I was referring specifically to success in the last basho which has won him general plaudits. It's quite a while since anyone has been praising Kotooshu. Obviously in the general scheme of things Kotooshu has got much further.

The other thing which didn't fit all that well with what Kotooshu said was that the four opponents that the two of them shared (namely Baruto, Kakuryu, Kisenosato and Tokusegawa) all beat Kotooshu and were beaten by Toyonoshima.

Sure he had some luck, but a lot of it arose from strength of will and intensity, characteristics that seem to be lacking from Kotooshu's repertoire. I also don't have much expectation of him repeating the feat any time soon, but I certainly enjoyed it while it lasted and I just don't enjoy seeing Mr Mediocre opening his big mouth. Whether or not he was right, I feel that as an ozeki he should be more gracious.

Hey, I like this ranting, it's fun!

[madorosumaru 7]

Osh can be churlish at times--some say all the time. ;-) His Japanese is also not that good. As Joe has said many times, it is very difficult to translate the quotes, since Japanese media do not provide adequate context to explain or clarify the quotes.

In this case, I think Joe embellished it a trifle, which is the prerogative of the translator. It did stimulate much conversation--rants, if you will--and as Nagano-san said, "... ranting [is] fun." Well done, Joe.

[Achiyama 1,238]

<Rant on>

Who is Kotooshu to denigrate someone who provided such exciting sumo and brought the basho alive for once? Winning 14 bouts is not just "lucky", even with the weaker competition at the bottom of makuuchi. Maybe if Kotooshu were to get 14-1 that would be lucky (or do I mean a miracle?)

WOW-WOW. Are you kidding me? Obviously, you have to educate yourself a little bit before writing such a nonsence. Did you forget what happened during the 2008 Natsu Basho? Kotooshu won the Emperor's Cup (became the Yusho Winner) with a score of 14-1. And at that time there were 2 Yokozuna (not one) (Asashoryu and Hakuho) and Kotooshu defeated both of them in 2 consequtive days. Was that lucky. Would a "Mediocre" sumo wrestler do that???

Kotooshu is jealous of Toyonoshima's success - he probably doesn't like him because he finds him to be a tough opponent on many occasions. He's also vain and can't stand hearing other people being praised.

As Flohru said before "Jealous of WHAT"? In fact both started almost at the same time (Toyonoshima started 1 year yearlier (2002.01) and Kotooshu in 2002.11.

It took Toyonoshima 13 basho (excluding the Mae-zumo) to become a Sekitori (Juryo). Which is excellent! It took Kotooshu 8 basho (excluding the Mae-zumo) for the same achievement.

It took Toyonoshima 15 basho to become a Makuuchi. Another great result. It took Kotooshu 10 basho for the same achievement.

Another big thing. Do you know WHO holds the record for the FASTEST run to OZEKI??? Yes, it is Kotooshu. He became an Ozeki at his 19th basho. He beated Asashoryu's record (22th basho) by 3 basho. And the third fastest was the Great Akebono (26th basho).

Also, as Flohru mentioned Kottoshu had a KK in 16 consecutive basho. So, no more words are needed to conclude whether there is a ground for jealousy.

Edit: Also it must be really galling to see all the girls trailing after Toyonoshima.

What are you talking about? Why would he need girls to be trailing after him when he has a beautiful wife Asako Ando at home, whom he can go to every day???

Also, did you forget who had the nickname "David Beckham of Sumo" (all media were flooded with that nickname)? Or do I need to describe who David Beckham is?

Finally, I can say that you had to do more reading before attacking somebody based on his opinion that Toyo's score was a fluke. Which is absolutely true. A proof for that is his score this basho (2011 Hatsu) when he is a Maegashira-joi. First 5 bouts - score 1 win and 4 losses. I don't believe that Kotooshu intended to belittle Toyonoshima in any way.

Best Regards,

Achiyama

Edited January 13, 2011 by Achiyama

[Kuroyama 715]

@Achiyama -- Look I want to be able to like Kotooshu as much as the next American of Slavic descent, but let's be honest: As an ozeki, he's been a disappointment. A KK is the *minimum* expected from someone of his rank, so he'd better manage it nearly all the time. Normal expectations would be double-digit wins, and to challenge for the yusho more than once every 2 years. The last time he came close was the Nagoya 2009 basho. In 2010 he achieved 10 wins (never more) half the time. That's decidedly mediocre at his rank, even more so considering the expectations raised by his early success.

That none of the other ozeki have been performing up to par is no excuse. (I except Baruto, who's too new to the rank to have established much of a record allowing for the fact that all new promotees seem to have an "off" basho or two.)

Ultimately, given that it's been since 2009 since he last approached a record like Toyonoshima last basho, and 2008 since he equalled it, he really has no business casting aspersions. If nothing else, from his higher rank he can afford to be gracious.

[Naganoyama 5,890]

Achiyama - I'm well aware of everything that Kotooshu achieved prior to (deservedly) being made ozeki and that he is in a different league from Toyonoshima. I am merely pointing out that he should not have made the comments he did about Toyonoshima's performance in the previous basho.

I accept the fact that Toyonoshima was ranked low on the banzuke and had an easier set of opponents than Kotooshu, but he performed better than expectation in posting a 14-1 score and reaching the yusho play-off. Kotooshu performed worse than expectation in posting only 8-7. He has in fact posted double-digit scores in less than half of the basho since May 2008.

But that is not really my point. As he is ranked at ozeki, I feel that he should have been more gracious when asked about Toyonoshima. If he had said "Toyonoshima did very well last time out. Let's see how well he does this time. It's much tougher in this part of the banzuke you know." I wouldn't have had a problem with it.

I also would like to see Kotooshu performing at his May 2008 level on a consistent basis. Perhaps this is the basho where he will turn it round.

[Achiyama 1,238]

Achiyama - I'm well aware of everything that Kotooshu achieved prior to (deservedly) being made ozeki and that he is in a different league from Toyonoshima. I am merely pointing out that he should not have made the comments he did about Toyonoshima's performance in the previous basho.

I accept the fact that Toyonoshima was ranked low on the banzuke and had an easier set of opponents than Kotooshu, but he performed better than expectation in posting a 14-1 score and reaching the yusho play-off. Kotooshu performed worse than expectation in posting only 8-7. He has in fact posted double-digit scores in less than half of the basho since May 2008.

But that is not really my point. As he is ranked at ozeki, I feel that he should have been more gracious when asked about Toyonoshima. If he had said "Toyonoshima did very well last time out. Let's see how well he does this time. It's much tougher in this part of the banzuke you know." I wouldn't have had a problem with it.

I also would like to see Kotooshu performing at his May 2008 level on a consistent basis. Perhaps this is the basho where he will turn it round.

Hi Naganoyama,

I am not going to argue with you, but frankly I don't see Kotooshu's words to be too offensive.

As for Toyonoshima's lucky Kyushu basho what better proof is his performance this basho. I would like to bring something which troubles me. I feel something was rotten. How can you or anybody explain the follwing: Kyshu basho, Day 13 Toyonoshima defeats Kakuryu, Day 14 he defeats Kaio, Day 15 he defeats Kisenosato;

Hatsu basho, Day 5 Toyonoshima loses to Kaio, Day 6 he loses to Kakuryu, and Day 7 he loses to Kisenosato.

Don't you see something wrong, and who is the real Toyonoshima, or maybe there was multiple yaocho during the Kyushu basho, or the Sanyaku rikishi lost on purpose so to see Toyonoshima in a bout with Hakuho. If this is the case I think it is WRONG.

I expect something like this to happen if after the excellent start of Tochinonada (7:0 in day 7) he continues the same way till he has to meet Sanyaku rikishi the last 3 days, so they (whoever they are) will lose on purpose again.

As for Kotooshu's 8:7 record during the Kyushu basho we might have the answer posted in "Rikishi Talk day 7" posting:

*********************************************************************

Kotooshu (6-1) over Yoshikaze

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(Often showing weakness against smaller rikishi coming inside of him because of tall frame but today calmly took care of Yoshikaze who came out crouching down.)

"I was able to stop his advance without rushing myself."

(Finshed last basho with only 8 win suffering from a collarbone fracture and unable to hit his opponents hard but recovered from the injury sufficiently this basho, his sumo has been gradually improving.)

"I have had a good start from Day 1 so I just want to keep accumulating more win."

**********************************************************************

So, do I have grounds to think that something went wrong during the Kyushu basho, or not?

Best Regards,

Achiyama

[Doitsuyama 1,178]

I would like to bring something which troubles me. I feel something was rotten. How can you or anybody explain the follwing: Kyshu basho, Day 13 Toyonoshima defeats Kakuryu, Day 14 he defeats Kaio, Day 15 he defeats Kisenosato;

Hatsu basho, Day 5 Toyonoshima loses to Kaio, Day 6 he loses to Kakuryu, and Day 7 he loses to Kisenosato.

Don't you see something wrong, and who is the real Toyonoshima, or maybe there was multiple yaocho during the Kyushu basho, or the Sanyaku rikishi lost on purpose so to see Toyonoshima in a bout with Hakuho. If this is the case I think it is WRONG.

So, do I have grounds to think that something went wrong during the Kyushu basho, or not?

You can think what you want of course but your thought are severly suffering from small sample size. The Ozeki Back Scratching argument at least had a somewhat decent sample size, but your argument does not.

Besides, it's not very surprising to see Toyonoshima running hot and cold. Just look his hoshitori patterns and you'll see that the little guy is quite streaky. So your thoughts should at least include that he won nine(!) straight before your days 13-15 in Kyushu and lost three straight before your days 5-7 this basho.

[Naganoyama 5,890]

The Japan Times reported that Toyonoshima has had a back problem in the run-up to this basho.

Most rikishi blow hot and cold. Only the top guys seem to be able to perform consistently. I don't think it points to anything sinister.

[Hananotaka 8]

Another thing is that Toyonoshima is a smallish, technical wrestler. That means that when he's on, he can use his technical skills to defeat physically stronger opponents. But when he's not on, whether physically or mentally, and he is denied the technical position he wants, he can lose in short order.

[Anjoboshi 2]

Just look his hoshitori patterns and you'll see that the little guy is quite streaky.

The original link points to localhost, the working link is: hoshitori patterns

[Jokkamura 4]

And he's likely the only forum member with a local Sumodb. (Whatever above, it is funny...)

Just look his hoshitori patterns and you'll see that the little guy is quite streaky.

The original link points to localhost, the working link is: hoshitori patterns