Questions from a sumo noob!

[warusawa 9]

This is only the second basho that I am watching, so please bear with me:

1. If I understand the rules correctly, a sumo bout is won when the opponent touches outside of the dohyo with any part of his body, or inside of the dohyo with any part of his body except feet. If that's the case, why aren't manouvers used in Greco-Roman or freestyle wrestling (like tossing an opponent using your hip, causing him to fall) used more often in sumo? Of course I only saw very few bouts so far, but it seems that most of the time rikishi try to push the opponent out of the dohyo, and relatively rarely use tossing techniques to cause the opponent to hit the ground inside the ring, like in western style wrestling. Why is that?

2. I like when the winning wrestler grabs the losing wrestler, preventing the losing guy from falling off the dohyo. I saw Hakuho do it, and I am sure others do it (if they can), to prevent an injury to the opponent. Is it a very widespread practice, or are there some "bad guys" who won't support a falling opponent, and some "good guys" who will do it more often than others? If so, who are the good guys, because I want to root for them!

Thanks

[Harry 67]

There certainly are techniques used to make your opponent fall. Most of the 'nage' techniques are throws, and 'nage' means throw. 'Uwatenage' is an overarm throw while 'shitatenage' is an underarm throw just for a couple of examples.

Some guys are nice and catch their opponent before they fall while others like to give an extra shove to help them fall down. The big "bad boy" Asashouryuu was expelled for something that happened outside the ring. No one super bad stands out at the moment.

[Asojima 2,874]

Sumo that relies on pushing and shoving is referred to as oshi-zumo. That which relies on belt grips and throws is yotsu-zumo. In recent years, the primary emphasis has been shifting from yotsu-zumo to oshi-zumo. It is the style normally preferred by larger, heavier rikishi.

[warusawa 9]

thanks!

[Kuroyama 715]

To take a stab at answering "why" -- in Greco-Roman wrestling, getting thrown may put you at a a disadvantage, but it doesn't end the match. It's therefore *much* more important to avoid it in sumo. Sumo wrestlers spend a lot of training time in building lower body strength and learning to keep their feet. That plus the weight, which is purposely put on lower to keep the center of gravity as low as possible, and it turns out that a throw isn't so easy to execute. Especially the kind of throw you describe. Notice how when two wrestlers get into a "clinch", when both have a grip on each other's belts, how they tend to keep their hips as far apart as possible until they're sure they have an advantageous enough position to move in.

Getting your lower body close in when you're not at an advantage is risky whether you're facing an oshi or yotsu specialist, in the one case because you might yield too much leverage to your opponent, allowing you to be lifted or otherwise unbalanced, and in the other because you might open yourself up to a throw.

There's also an aesthetic choice in the matter. Sumo is far from short on technique, but the most common word for a wrestler, "rikishi", literally means "strong man". Forcing your opponent out by a show of strength is, if not actually preferred, very acceptable and satisfying.

I've likely not done the subject true justice, so no doubt someone more expert than me will have something to add or correct.

[warusawa 9]

To take a stab at answering "why" -- in Greco-Roman wrestling, getting thrown may put you at a a disadvantage, but it doesn't end the match. It's therefore *much* more important to avoid it in sumo. Sumo wrestlers spend a lot of training time in building lower body strength and learning to keep their feet. That plus the weight, which is purposely put on lower to keep the center of gravity as low as possible, and it turns out that a throw isn't so easy to execute. Especially the kind of throw you describe. Notice how when two wrestlers get into a "clinch", when both have a grip on each other's belts, how they tend to keep their hips as far apart as possible until they're sure they have an advantageous enough position to move in.

Getting your lower body close in when you're not at an advantage is risky whether you're facing an oshi or yotsu specialist, in the one case because you might yield too much leverage to your opponent, allowing you to be lifted or otherwise unbalanced, and in the other because you might open yourself up to a throw.

There's also an aesthetic choice in the matter. Sumo is far from short on technique, but the most common word for a wrestler, "rikishi", literally means "strong man". Forcing your opponent out by a show of strength is, if not actually preferred, very acceptable and satisfying.

I've likely not done the subject true justice, so no doubt someone more expert than me will have something to add or correct.

I think your explanation makes a lot of sense. It also explains why "sidestepping", and letting your opponent's own momentum cause him to leave the dohyo is considered bad sumo. Strong men don't duck!

[Asojima 2,874]

I think your explanation makes a lot of sense. It also explains why "sidestepping", and letting your opponent's own momentum cause him to leave the dohyo is considered bad sumo. Strong men don't duck!

Sidestepping is known as henka. It is much more frowned upon by foreigners than by the Japanese. It is a surprise tactic that is part of a rikishi's arsenal. Some use it more than others. Those who are caught by it tend to feel foolish and disappointed. Those expecting to watch a battle feel a brief letdown. Despite the downer effect of the move, it has a very legitimate place in the scheme of things.

[Jakusotsu 6,049]

Talking about henka, today was the first successful henka against Kaio I can remember. Still a shame for Kakuryu as far as I'm concerned.

[Harry 67]

Yes, as far as sidestepping 'henka' are concerned, the Japanese say "kachi wa kachi" or "a win is a win" so it doesn't really seem to bother them that much. They find it amusing. In fact I think they more blame the one who falls for the henka rather than the one who attempts it.

[Kuroyama 715]

In fact, Hakuho once won a yusho by handing a henka to Asashoryu in a playoff bout. It was one of the yusho that helped secure his yokozuna promotion too, so even the NSK can't have thought too badly of it.

It really only becomes a problem when overused.

[salle 11]

This is only the second basho that I am watching, so please bear with me:

1. ...

If that's the case, why aren't manouvers used in Greco-Roman or freestyle wrestling (like tossing an opponent using your hip, causing him to fall) used more often in sumo?

Besides the excellent answer by much more knowledgeable members of this forum you already got here are couple of minor reasons:

* Dohyo. It is made of clay and sand and is moisturized with water before each bout. It means very slippery surface quite different from wrestling mat. Hence in ozumo the balance is much more difficult to achieve. Combine that with the fact that many throws are sacrifyng in sumo terms (you also touch the ground when you throw your opponent) so it is not just the throw itself, but you also must maintain good balance to ensure you don't lose. You don't care who will touch the ground first in Greko-Roman and freestyle wrestling, but in sumo it makes all the difference.

By the way you should take Greko-Roman out of the equation. Grabbing your opponent leg is allowed in sumo, just extremely difficult to achieve.

The other thing is:

* Control. Full control over opponent during entire bout is the recipe for success in ozumo. Vast variety of techniques, huge body mass and super strong muscles are very important indeed, but the key to success is the ability to control the opponents. That's what makes clear distinction between good and best players. At the other hand you can master single technique and use it always while keeping opponents under your control which can result in long and successful career. That also contributes to the low frequency of throws in upper ranks. Thats why yorikiri for example is one of the most frequent and most respected techniques. Yorikiri win is undoubted, convincing, dominant win and don't happen by chance or as last ditch effort.

2. I like when the winning wrestler grabs the losing wrestler, preventing the losing guy from falling off the dohyo. I saw Hakuho do it, and I am sure others do it (if they can), to prevent an injury to the opponent. Is it a very widespread practice, or are there some "bad guys" who won't support a falling opponent, and some "good guys" who will do it more often than others? If so, who are the good guys, because I want to root for them!

I also like that a a lot. It is widespread to prevent opponents from injuries that way, give them hand helping to stand up after the bout and such. It shows great respect to your opponent and is all important in sumo because these guys are bound to be role models for the entire society. Unfortunately not so long ago we had "bad guy" youkozuna (I should say VERY bad guy) who was doing exactly the opposite - giving them extra push when they were already falling or flying off the dohyo and not showing single bit of respect no matter if wining or losing the bout.