Yaocho by mobile scandal-

[sekitori 492]

The "plan" (whose plan is it anyway) of getting all the guilty parties and eradicating yaocho for good is a pie in the sky. The most important is to keep the show going on and for that purpose the best is to get this investigation done and hold a basho ASAP unless one thinks this limbo does sumo any good...

I agree that the idea of getting all the guilty parties is a delusion and I'm sure everyone knows it. if several sanyaku rikishis were requested to retire, sumo could be severely damaged for a long time. I'm sure that's why examples were made (with the exception of M1 Tokusegawa) of mid to low ranked maegashira, juryo, and makushita rikishis. These people are fairly easy to replace. Highly ranked rikishis are not. Now that supposedly all of the guilty parties have been dealt with, I assume that everyone else will be presumed to be not guilty. That doesn't mean that they're innocent. It just means that the NSK didn't find enough proof to judge them guilty--or that any proof was overlooked. There is a phrase in the military the acronym for which is RHIP. It stands for "rank has its privileges". In this case, that could possibly have been true.

However, all this comes with a strong warning. Since everyone now realizes that yaocho will be dealt with extremely harshly in the future (for the sake of sumo's survival, it had better be), that part of the plan may just work. Having 25 rikishis, mostly from the top two divisions, accept immediate retirement is a pretty good incentive for everyone to perform at their best. They may realize that punishment for yaocho could become much worse than just forced retirement. If there is sufficient proof of match fixing which I assume won't be overlooked no matter who is involved, the word "jomei" comes to mind. To get the point across as strongly as possible and to eliminate any public thought of further inaction, a 75% vote may not be as difficult to achieve as previously thought.

Edited April 9, 2011 by sekitori

[Kuroyama 715]

Can you see BP pulling the same stunt after the oil spill? ("I think we've punished enough execs and engineers, that should do it.")

Yes, easily. And the CEO can also whine to the press in the middle of the crisis about how he'd like to have his life back.

Or to pick another example, the Wall Street executives primarily responsible for the kind of financial instruments that helped inflate the housing bubble, eventually bringing about the worldwide financial crisis by 2008, are not, by and large, what we would call "hurting".

I'm not sure why this looks so strange to you.

[Kintamayama 45,495]

"Enough" is a word that just doesn't seem to fit here. "Enough" implies that there's more, but a "quota" has been met.

This whole mess stinks like week-old diapers. Over-the-top punishments to some leaving others free and clear (when it's obvious that there was a pretty good whole-scale involvement in this) is Knee-Jerk reaction in the extreme.

Seriously, anyone who really knows sumo and how it operates understands that this number of exiled men represents a very small percentage of those who should have been punished. It's also obvious that the list isn't finalized, and won't be. Action taken by the Kyokai amounts to lip-service, grace-saving, image-conscious, self-serving, chest-thumping bravado that no real company or organization, sport of not, would ever be seen doing.

Can you see BP pulling the same stunt after the oil spill? ("I think we've punished enough execs and engineers, that should do it.")

Or does this only happen in Japan? (As I keep getting reminded not to see/judge events and reactions puzzling to my Western Eyes.)

This can be said about all major sports. NBA, NHL, MBL- many scandals were settled with the small fry being fried- you know what I mean. Even Bonds, although everyone knew, is paying the price (is he?) now after he's retired. Everyone knew of the rampant steroid abuse, but no one did anything. Everyone knows the NBA is riddled with recreational drug usage, but no one is going to open that can of worms since nobody knows where it will lead. No sport wants to behead its top athletes and bends over backwards to protect them, until something so public happens that there is no choice.

And lets get back to proportions-sumo and the BP leak-you are really comparing the two? Really?? Even in principle?

Edited April 10, 2011 by Kintamayama

[Asashosakari 19,637]

The investigation committee did the expected thing, and Sokokurai and Hoshikaze will (in all likelihood) officially be toast on Monday when their findings are reported to the interim board meeting scheduled for that day. Sokokurai's shisho Arashio-oyakata will also be called before the board, a stable member confirmed, while Oguruma-oyakata has yet to say whether he's been summoned (though I can't imagine he'll evade punishment).

Edited April 9, 2011 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama 45,495]

The investigation committee did the expected thing, and Sokokurai and Hoshikaze will (in all likelihood) officially be toast on Monday when their findings are reported to the interim board meeting scheduled for that day. Sokokurai's shisho Arashio-oyakata will also be called before the board, a stable member confirmed, while Oguruma-oyakata has yet to say whether he's been summoned (though I can't imagine he'll evade punishment).

Rumor is the Oyakata will each get a one-class demotion punishment.

[Kintamayama 45,495]

Latest-Hoshikaze is off the hook (neither him or the Oyakata were called in), Soukokurai is out. As for any chance of finding more guilty parties from the mobile phone companies' investigations, Mr. Ito of the committee said this: "New participants (in yaocho)?? No more. I'm tired of this, totally exhausted.."

Edit: Arashio Oyakata is rumored to be planning to sue the Kyokai if Soukokurai is found guilty, his surroundings are saying. "At this time, the Oyakata is planning to take legal action and is consulting a lawyer," they said. The Oyakata, Soukokurai and the lawyer will be waiting for the April 11th verdict. "There will be a press conference immediately after the verdict," said someone.

Edited April 9, 2011 by Kintamayama

[Asashosakari 19,637]

It appears the committee will be hanging around until at least early May after all, as the analysis of one of the three cell phones still under investigation won't be finished by mid-April as originally expected.

[Asashosakari 19,637]

Latest-Hoshikaze is off the hook (neither him or the Oyakata were called in)

Oguruma-oyakata is now insinuating that he will request Hoshikaze to retire regardless of the committee's final judgement on his deshi. This may or may not be related to the rumour that Hoshikaze isn't exactly going to be judged innocent, but merely as "inconclusive" due to the committee failing to reach its own "multiple pieces of evidence" standard against him.

[Peterao 3]

Now it seems that we're back to the original determination that both Sokokurai and Hoshikaze are "kuro", and will receive intai recommendations from the Kyokai.

[Peterao 3]

Now it seems that we're back to the original determination that both Sokokurai and Hoshikaze are "kuro", and will receive intai recommendations from the Kyokai.

And both were officially given intai advisements by the Kyokai. They have until the 13th to submit their paperwork.

Shishos Oguruma and Arashio were both hit with one rank demotions.

Edited April 11, 2011 by Peterao

[Peterao 3]

Both rikishi have made it known that they intend to follow in ex-Kaiho's MAN footsteps.

Sokokurai: "They just told me I was 'kuro'. I don't accept this. I will not file the paperwork. I am going to talk with an attorney."

Hoshikaze: "I'm not retiring, because I didn't do anything! I want them to investigate properly, because this is people's lives they're playing with!"

[Kintamayama 45,495]

Arashio Oyakata on Soukokurai: "It's really regrettable. I believed Soukokurai all the way. From here on he can do whatever he chooses. If he accepts the retirement advice, it is his decision. If he chooses to go to court, I cannot stop him!"

Arashio walks:

Oguruma Oyakata: "Hoshikaze is not acknowledging this but we're not in a position to question the Kyokai's investigative techniques. I think he should accept the punishment sincerely. Still, I would like to believe my deshi. As for the future, I would like to discuss it with him.."

Edited April 11, 2011 by Kintamayama

[Peterao 3]

The price of MANhood: if Hoshikaze follows up on his threat to not retire, he will be giving up approximately 2.2 million yen retirement payment, while Sokukurai would lose his claim to about 5.3 million, making him the biggest MAN of them all.

[Kintamayama 45,495]

The list:

Moukonami

Moukonami announced during his visit to the KKan today that he will be joining some martial arts organization. Dressed in a suit, he said: "I'm still young, and I intend to challenge all kinds of stuff.. I want to try out everything. I haven't decided anything concrete yet, but I'm definitely going to try. I'd like to challenge at least once!"

[Kintamayama 45,495]

Soukokurai: "I have a lot of distrust towards these investigations. The second and third investigations were a one-way deal where I was repeatedly told I was guilty. Of course I will not be handing in any retirement notices. I will be talking to my lawyer in order to bring the truth to light!"

Hoshikaze: "The investigation was not carried out properly. I don't want them to make a life-altering decision based on that. I will not be handing in any retirement notices as I don't accept their decision. I don't care about my retirement money. The real issue is that I want an honest investigation and to prove my innocence!!"

Soukokurai and Hoshikaze:

Edited April 11, 2011 by Kintamayama

[Jonosuke 28]

My gut feeling is that the two and the Kyokai will settle this out of court. Neither side wants to have this dragged on for sure but the real question is that if this gets to court, the Kyokai lawyers can keep the issue strictly confined to the call log investigation.

As no police or prosecutors office had any role in determining their guilt before the committee handed down the decision, it is rather doubtful that what they can present will be enough for any clear cut proof of committing yaocho. And of course the Kyokai really does not want to have the case to start delving in any historical or other possible yaocho bouts committed outside of the current mobile phone case.

The Kyokai lawyers must be aware that depending on how the case will go, those other cases they won against the publishers may get resurrected and they certainly do not want that to happen any time soon.

There will be all kinds of pressures against the two rikishi and their shisho to go quietly with or without further inducement.

[Peterao 3]

There will be all kinds of pressures against the two rikishi and their shisho to go quietly with or without further inducement.

I would think that those pressures would be tempered by their foreign nationality, especially in the case of Sokokurai. Would the Kyokai really risk escalation to an level where the Chinese government would start looking to protect the "civil rights" of one of their own?

I think he'll ultimately come out of this a lot better than those who took the money and ran...

[Keishikazawa 0]

There will be all kinds of pressures against the two rikishi and their shisho to go quietly with or without further inducement.

I would think that those pressures would be tempered by their foreign nationality, especially in the case of Sokokurai. Would the Kyokai really risk escalation to an level where the Chinese government would start looking to protect the "civil rights" of one of their own?

I think he'll ultimately come out of this a lot better than those who took the money and ran...

I agree with this statement 100%. I'm surprised a bunch of the regular Mongolians aren't doing this too. The kyokai wants this to end as quietly as possible drawn out court battles are gonna make this wound fester, and open up a bunch of old ones. I would be willing to bet any out of court settlement would be bigger than 5.3 million yen.

We all know there are higher ranked wrestlers involved in yaocho, and if we know it, then the other wrestlers and oyakata know it, and it won't take that much digging to bring to light.

[Asashosakari 19,637]

I like the cognitive dissonance here that the Kyokai will supposedly find it difficult to "prove" (to civil court standards anyway) that certain rikishi were involved in yaocho, but those same rikishi won't have any trouble credibly implicating other rikishi. Which is it?

[Flohru 176]

I like the cognitive dissonance here that the Kyokai will supposedly find it difficult to "prove" (to civil court standards anyway) that certain rikishi were involved in yaocho, but those same rikishi won't have any trouble credibly implicating other rikishi. Which is it?

Very true, and - as mentioned above - even if they could credibly implicate other rikishi, it wouldn't help their own case in any court of the world. The kyokai knows that, the rikishi know it (or at least their lawyers do) which is why they will eventually take the money and leave.

[Kintamayama 45,495]

"Poor guy, but what can you do? If I would have known this would happen I wouldn't have shlepped him over from Inner Mongolia. I'd love to save him, but being a Kyokai member myself, it's going to be difficult..," said Arashio Oyakata.

Soukokurai-take the money and run?

Edited April 12, 2011 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama 45,495]

I agree with this statement 100%. I'm surprised a bunch of the regular Mongolians aren't doing this too.

That's because the "bunch of the regular Mongolians" know full well they did it and were unlucky to have done it with a guy who decided to "sell out" all his ex-friends. They also know they are not the only ones who did it. The only difference between them and the two dissidents is that the dissidents want to bring down others with them, in a knee-jerk response of "Mommy, they started it" proportions. Reading between the lines and on the lines, the Kyokai has made it amply obvious that they have excellent lawyers that have assured them that they can't be touched.

I hope they don't chicken out at the last minute. I'd love to see how this is going to pan out.

[Asashosakari 19,637]

I like the cognitive dissonance here that the Kyokai will supposedly find it difficult to "prove" (to civil court standards anyway) that certain rikishi were involved in yaocho, but those same rikishi won't have any trouble credibly implicating other rikishi. Which is it?

Very true, and - as mentioned above - even if they could credibly implicate other rikishi, it wouldn't help their own case in any court of the world. The kyokai knows that, the rikishi know it (or at least their lawyers do) which is why they will eventually take the money and leave.

And beyond that: If a dismissed rikishi wants to make some additional money by dragging the names of others into the mess he doesn't need the courts, just the tabloids. First come, first serve. Of course, as with Wakanoho that would require them to admit their own complicity, too...

I'll miss some of my personal favourites, but at the "quality of sumo" level, the only ones I'll really miss from the 22 dismissed sekitori are Tokusegawa (who I fully expected to have a Kyokutenho-like career) and Sokokurai. That Heisei Hopefuls thread might go into graduation overdrive for the next 12 months.

Edited April 12, 2011 by Asashosakari

[Peterao 3]

I like the cognitive dissonance here that the Kyokai will supposedly find it difficult to "prove" (to civil court standards anyway) that certain rikishi were involved in yaocho, but those same rikishi won't have any trouble credibly implicating other rikishi. Which is it?

Very true, and - as mentioned above - even if they could credibly implicate other rikishi, it wouldn't help their own case in any court of the world. The kyokai knows that, the rikishi know it (or at least their lawyers do) which is why they will eventually take the money and leave.

And beyond that: If a dismissed rikishi wants to make some additional money by dragging the names of others into the mess he doesn't need the courts, just the tabloids. First come, first serve. Of course, as with Wakanoho that would require them to admit their own complicity, too...

Why is everybody talking about these rikishi dragging other names into the mix? I haven't heard anything like that from Hoshikaze and Sokokurai; all they've been saying is that they didn't do anything, and that they would go to court to prove that they were wrongly terminated.

[Jonosuke 28]

Details for the most recent two dismissees: Natsu 2010 Day 11 Sokokurai d. Kasuganishiki, Hatsu 2011 Day 7 Hoshikaze d. Chiyohakuho. The committee claims to have testimony from both opponents as well as Enatsukasa for doing the go-between stuff.

This is really indicative how flimsy of evidence they are basing the whole thing. Enatsukasa has nothing on these tow bouts, not call log record to back up and as far as the two bouts are concerned it is Takenawa's word against Sokokurai and Chiyohakuho's word against Hoshikaze. There are no other circumstantial evidence other than the bout results.

Weekly Shukan Gendai claimed yaocho on more solid evidence but they still lost their case against the Kyokai at court.