Kintamayama 44,400 Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) As we speculated for some time now, Tatsunami beya has withdrawn from the Ichimon baring its name, after the Oyakata voted against the Ichimon's will in the last ( and possibly the one before that) Kyokai elections and has taken responsibility for it. The Ichimon will gather in a few days to decide on its new name. Most likely either Ikazuchi or Isegahama. The Ichimon "signboard" has vanished. It is believed Tatsunami was backing Isegahama Oyakata's candidacy, but when he withdrew from the race on the morning of the elections, Tatsunami voted for Takanohana, who of course is not a member of the Tatsunami Ichimon. As for Tatsunami beya, it will be joining the "Takanohana Group", the 4 heya (Takanohana, Magaki, Ootake and Ounomatsu) that withdrew when Takanohana left Nishonoseki Ichimon a couple of years back. Tatsunami beya is a historically successful heya, bearing great Yokozuna like Futabayama and Haguroyama . Postwar, the Ichimon was called the Tatsunami-Isegahama Ichimon, and in 2006 became just Tatsunami Ichimon. It includes these heyas: Kasugayama, Tomozuna, Isegahama, Miyagino, Asahiyama and Oitekaze. Edited April 10, 2012 by Kintamayama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryafuji 807 Posted April 12, 2012 It will be interesting to see how the Kyokai website deals with this, seeing as how they don't currently acknowledge the "Takanohana Group"'s existence... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sashohitowa 6 Posted April 13, 2012 Why don't the Takanohana-group found their own ichimon? Too much bureaucracy involved? (In jonokuchi...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 18,837 Posted April 13, 2012 Why don't the Takanohana-group found their own ichimon? Too much bureaucracy involved? (In jonokuchi...) Taka's an outspoken opponent of dividing the sumo world into official ichimons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubinhaad 11,562 Posted April 15, 2012 Wouldn't it be kind of, unorthodox, to have an ichimon not named after a heya? I understand that Ikazuchi-beya was something of a heavyweight a century or so ago, when Yokozuna Umegatanis were around, but now it isn't a heya at all. Does the name itself really carry enough weight for an Ikazuchi Ichimon? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 18,837 Posted April 15, 2012 If I had my way, yes. ;-) More seriously though, I agree with that objection - and given that a) the group already used to have "Isegahama" in its name, and b) collectively they probably owe Isegahama-oyakata one after the chaos at the riji vote, I'd be a bit surprised if the name they'll settle on is anything other than Isegahama-ichimon. But who knows - some in the 2ch kabu-watching crowd seem convinced that Isegahama (potentially with others) is about to bolt alongside Tatsunami... Crackpot alternative prediction: They'll wrangle the Tatsunami share away from ex-Asahiyutaka after all, Tatsunami-beya becomes Ajigawa-beya or something and withdraws, and one of the group stables becomes the new Tatsunami-beya. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 18,837 Posted April 26, 2012 The ichimon was set to meet on the 25th, but once again on this issue, the silence is deafening. No idea if the meeting even took place... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,400 Posted April 27, 2012 The ichimon was set to meet on the 25th, but once again on this issue, the silence is deafening. No idea if the meeting even took place... May 14th is the new date set. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,400 Posted April 27, 2012 Things seem to really be falling apart at the Tatsunami Ichimon. Today they held their rengo keiko at Asahiyama beya. Absent were Yokozuna Hakuhou and Tomozuna beya. There were only three sekitori present-all from Isegahama beya headed by Aminishiki. Miyagino Oyakata was surprised like everyone else that his deshi the Yokozuna wasn't there. "I have no idea why he was absent. I was sure he would be coming here.., " he said angrily. OTOH, Tomozuna's 4 sekitori stayed at home to train, hosting Hakuhou who walked in and trained with Juryo Asahishou and others. "Our keiko was planned in advance. We'll be here tomorrow as well, " said Tomozuna Oyakata. "We did not ask the Yokozuna to come but were pleasantly surprised by his arrival.." he added. This kind of "split" rengo keiko is extremely rare. "Rengo keiko is not obligatory.. Things happen and there really is nothing one can do about it," explained Ichimon member and riji Ikazuchi Oyakata. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 18,837 Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) Miyagino Oyakata was surprised like everyone else that his deshi the Yokozuna wasn't there. "I have no idea why he was absent. I was sure he would be coming here.., " he said angrily. OTOH, Tomozuna's 4 sekitori stayed at home to train, hosting Hakuhou who walked in and trained with Juryo Asahishou and others. Possible background: Daily Sports claims that Hakuho was a proponent of taking in the Kyokutenho-led Oshima crew at Miyagino-beya but his shisho did not agree with the idea (causing them to seek refuge in Tomozuna-beya instead), and speculates that it has caused a bit of a rift between the two. And more broadly on this topic, there's of course the lingering issue that Tomozuna upset the ichimon earlier by forcing himself into a riji candidacy against the group's wishes. If he hadn't done that, nobody might care right now that Asahiyutaka voted for Takanohana as the vote would have been unimportant to the ichimon. Given that Asahiyutaka was supposedly going to vote for Isegahama (an ichimon candidate) before he ended his candidacy and only then switched his ballot to Taka, it all seems a bit as though the ichimon is now throwing out Asahiyutaka to defend Tomozuna's integrity, even though Asahiyutaka's closer to the rest of the group in attitude than is Tomozuna... Edited April 28, 2012 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubinhaad 11,562 Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) The ichimon was set to meet on the 25th, but once again on this issue, the silence is deafening. No idea if the meeting even took place... May 14th is the new date set. The ichimon meeting took place, and a new name(s) was decided upon. Kasugayama-Isegahama. Nikkan article. Edited May 14, 2012 by Yubinhaad Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,400 Posted May 14, 2012 The ichimon was set to meet on the 25th, but once again on this issue, the silence is deafening. No idea if the meeting even took place... May 14th is the new date set. The ichimon meeting took place, and a new name(s) was decided upon. Kasugayama-Isegahama. Nikkan article. They're calling it the "Kasugayama- Isegahama Association" Ichimon. (Kasugayama-Isegahama Kumiai). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raishu 207 Posted July 8, 2012 According to the NSK website, Tatsunami is now (officially) part of the Takanohana group which seems to be an acknowledged Ichimon. At least, that's what their beya guide section says... When did this change occur? I haven't been to their website since June or so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 18,837 Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) The ichimon meeting took place, and a new name(s) was decided upon. Kasugayama-Isegahama. Nikkan article. They're calling it the "Kasugayama- Isegahama Association" Ichimon. (Kasugayama-Isegahama Kumiai). Wonder if it's already been changed, or maybe the Kyokai web staff just can't be bothered - it's called a rengo there. The Takanohana bunch are a katakana guruupu, while the other four are listed as ichimons, of course. In a rare case of the English side being arguably more informative, they're dispensing with all that nonsense there and just calling all six "groups". (Laughing...) @Raishu: Well, who knows what's an officially acknowledged ichimon these days... FWIW, ja.wiki describes the situation as "there are currently no unaffiliated stables" (unlike Takadagawa previously), whatever that means. The website change probably happened between Natsu and Nagoya when they also adjusted the Tatsunami name to K-I; at least I don't recall seeing any interim version with the Taka stables separated but Tatsunami still in its own ichimon. (Unless that's what you saw at the beginning of July. I hadn't been to the page since May or so.) Edited August 21, 2012 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 44,400 Posted August 22, 2012 Wonder if it's already been changed, or maybe the Kyokai web staff just can't be bothered - it's called a rengo there. The Takanohana bunch are a katakana guruupu, while the other four are listed as ichimons, of course. In a rare case of the English side being arguably more informative, they're dispensing with all that nonsense there and just calling all six "groups". (Laughing...) I doubt it will ever be called an Ichimon. From the Kyokai's point of view, it's a bastard born out of wedlock and doesn't deserve to be called an Ichimon. Grudgingly calling it a "guruupu" when they can call it any number of Japanese names speaks volumes. They did ignore the fact for quite a while till they finally acknowledged its existence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark.Buckton 68 Posted August 23, 2012 The ichimon meeting took place, and a new name(s) was decided upon. Kasugayama-Isegahama. Nikkan article. They're calling it the "Kasugayama- Isegahama Association" Ichimon. (Kasugayama-Isegahama Kumiai). Wonder if it's already been changed, or maybe the Kyokai web staff just can't be bothered Kyokai do not make updates to their page. Outside agency do on request. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 18,837 Posted November 19, 2012 (edited) Kasugayama-Isegahama-rengo no more... in late (but previously rumoured) fallout from this kerfuffle, the group has decided on another name change to "Isegahama-ichimon" today. Edited November 19, 2012 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krindel 671 Posted November 19, 2012 Kasugayama-Isegahama-rengo no more... in late (but previously rumoured) fallout from this kerfuffle, the group has decided on another name change to "Isegahama-ichimon" today. Isegahama oyakata must be feeling really well lately... First he gets a Yokozuna in his stable, and then he fulfills one of his half stated desires from when he switched to the Isegahama name, namely restoring the prestige of said name... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
serge_gva 52 Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) Sorry to dig this topic out, but what it the current situation? According to wikipedia (in english and japanese), Tatsunami still belongs to Takanohana "Ichimon", and the other stables of ex-Tatsunami ichimon belongs to Isegahama Ichimon. But according to sumodb (Kabu list on January 24, 2018), Tatsunami Ichimon still exists (instead of Isegahama Ichimon). What is correct? Regarding Takanohana Ichimon, did it become a proper Ichimon per the NSK, or is it still a "group" ? Finally, Wikipedia:ja says that Minato and Shikoroyama stables are independant. Is that correct? Since when? Edited January 24, 2018 by serge_gva Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
serge_gva 52 Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) It seems that Minato and Shikoroyama just left Tokitsukaze Ichimon last December (link), because they support Takanohana in the January 2018 elections. Edit: As indicated by Kintamayama in the Latest kabu-babu changes' topic. As for Tatsunami Ichimon beeing now Isegahama Ichimon, is it just a lack of update in sumodb? Edited January 30, 2018 by serge_gva Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryafuji 807 Posted January 25, 2018 According to this the Takanohana group was certified as an ichimon in 2014. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
