Doitsuyama 1,185 Posted May 13, 2004 All three Ozeki lost to Hiramaku rikishi between M2w and M4e, Chiyotaikai even giving Dejima his first win of the basho. Tokitsuumi extended his run to 5-0 against Ozeki Musoyama, as did Kinkaiyama, Futeno, Hokutoriki and Asashoryu. With the losses of the Ozeki there is only Sekiwake Wakanosato left in the Sanyaku at 4-1, one win behind Yokozuna Asashoryu. Tomorrow we will see if Hokutoriki can win against Asashoryu with his so far very successful nodo-wa tactic. The two Juryo Tokitsukaze rikishi Toyonoshima and Tokitenku are still undefeated, the smallest Sekitori Toyonoshima even beating the tallest Sekitori Kotooshu. Otsukasa showed good form against Chiyotenzan, winning the battle of the undefeated. Hagiwara lost, while Roho and Takanotsuru won and still are one win behind the three leaders. The two Juryo lead rikishi Toyozakura and Tamakasuga were a combined 0-8 so far, today the first win for one of them was guaranteed as they fought each other with Toyozakura winning. -- Doitsuyama Day 5 Juryo J13e Daishodai (1-4) yorikiri J14e Tochifudo (0-5) J14w Wakakosho (3-2) oshidashi J12e Dewanofuji (2-3) J11e Hamanishiki (3-2) hikiotoshi J12w Hagiwara (3-2) J13w Toyonoshima (5-0) shitatenage J10e Kotooshu (3-2) J10w Tokitenku (5-0) uwatehineri J9e Bushuyama (2-3) J7w Gojoro (1-4) yorikiri J9w Sumanofuji (1-4) J8w Wakanoyama (3-2) oshidashi J7e Ama (2-3) J6w Roho (4-1) uwatedashinage J5w Kitazakura (2-3) J6e Takanotsuru (4-1) okurinage J4w Oikari (1-4) J3w Wakatoba (3-2) oshitaoshi J4e Kaido (1-4) J2w Otsukasa (5-0) oshidashi J5e Chiyotenzan (4-1) J2e Kasugao (3-2) yorikiri J3e Yotsukasa (2-3) J1w Toyozakura (1-4) oshidashi J1e Tamakasuga (0-5) Makuuchi M16w Takanowaka (2-3) tsukidashi M14w Asanowaka (1-4) M13w Kinkaiyama (5-0) yorikiri M17e Kobo (2-3) M15w Futeno (5-0) kubinage M12w Jumonji (2-3) M12e Kaiho (3-2) oshidashi M16e Hakuho (3-2) M10e Harunoyama (2-3) hikiotoshi M11e Aminishiki (2-3) M11w Hayateumi (2-3) yorikiri M9w Tosanoumi (3-2) M8w Tochisakae (3-2) oshidashi M10w Toki (1-4) M7e Kokkai (4-1) oshidashi M9e Kotoryu (3-2) M6w Iwakiyama (4-1) yoritaoshi M8e Takekaze (2-3) M6e Buyuzan (1-4) oshidashi M7w Kyokushuzan (1-4) M5w Tamanoshima (4-1) hikiotoshi M2e Asasekiryu (1-4) M1w Hokutoriki (5-0) oshitaoshi M4w Takamisakari (2-3) M5e Kotonowaka (2-3) uwatenage M1e Tochinonada (1-4) K1e Miyabiyama (1-4) tsukiotoshi S1w Kyokutenho (1-4) S1e Wakanosato (4-1) okuridashi K1w Kotomitsuki (2-3) M3w Dejima (1-4) yorikiri O1e Chiyotaikai (3-2) M4e Tokitsuumi (5-0) tsukiotoshi O2e Musoyama (2-3) M2w Kakizoe (2-3) oshidashi O1w Kaio (3-2) Y1e Asashoryu (5-0) okurinage M3e Shimotori (3-2) Day 6 Makushita Ms11e Sumiya (2-0) Ms12w Kaishoryu (2-0) Ms9e Takamifuji (1-1) Ms10e Kotokuni (1-1) Ms9w Fujinoyama (2-0) Ms6w Katayama (2-0) Ms6e Masutsuyoshi (0-2) Ms8w Gokenzan (0-2) Ms7e Yoshiazuma (1-1) Ms4w Ichinotani (1-1) Juryo J12e Dewanofuji (2-3) J13w Toyonoshima (5-0) J14w Wakakosho (3-2) J12w Hagiwara (3-2) J11e Hamanishiki (3-2) J14e Tochifudo (0-5) J13e Daishodai (1-4) J10w Tokitenku (5-0) J10e Kotooshu (3-2) J7w Gojoro (1-4) J6e Takanotsuru (4-1) J9w Sumanofuji (1-4) J5e Chiyotenzan (4-1) J7e Ama (2-3) J9e Bushuyama (2-3) J5w Kitazakura (2-3) J4e Kaido (1-4) J8w Wakanoyama (3-2) J6w Roho (4-1) J3w Wakatoba (3-2) J2e Kasugao (3-2) J4w Oikari (1-4) J1e Tamakasuga (0-5) J2w Otsukasa (5-0) J3e Yotsukasa (2-3) J1w Toyozakura (1-4) Makuuchi M16e Hakuho (3-2) M15w Futeno (5-0) M16w Takanowaka (2-3) M12w Jumonji (2-3) M17e Kobo (2-3) M11w Hayateumi (2-3) M13w Kinkaiyama (5-0) M10w Toki (1-4) M9e Kotoryu (3-2) M12e Kaiho (3-2) M14w Asanowaka (1-4) M9w Tosanoumi (3-2) M8e Takekaze (2-3) M11e Aminishiki (2-3) M10e Harunoyama (2-3) M6w Iwakiyama (4-1) M8w Tochisakae (3-2) M5w Tamanoshima (4-1) M4e Tokitsuumi (5-0) M7e Kokkai (4-1) M3e Shimotori (3-2) M7w Kyokushuzan (1-4) M2e Asasekiryu (1-4) M5e Kotonowaka (2-3) M1e Tochinonada (1-4) M6e Buyuzan (1-4) S1e Wakanosato (4-1) K1e Miyabiyama (1-4) K1w Kotomitsuki (2-3) S1w Kyokutenho (1-4) M3w Dejima (1-4) O1w Kaio (3-2) O1e Chiyotaikai (3-2) M2w Kakizoe (2-3) O2e Musoyama (2-3) M4w Takamisakari (2-3) Y1e Asashoryu (5-0) M1w Hokutoriki (5-0) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aderechelsea 125 Posted May 13, 2004 who would expect results like that for the Yokozuna candidates by day 5...... :-( Asa i getting a safety distance from both of them and will have to worry mainly for Hokutoriki in this basho, starting from tomorrow.Hokutoriki is great thus far and he will give Asa a hard time(at least on papers). Tokitsuumi is proving me right once again as he beat Musoyama too.He is VERY good in this basho and tomorrow's fight against Kokkai will be a decider for his chances on a good record....If it goes to yotsu-sumo i think he has the edge... I cannot even comment on Kaio and Taikai..... :-/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubiquitoyama 4 Posted May 13, 2004 (edited) Asa i getting a safety distance from both of them and will have to worry mainly for Hokutoriki in this basho, starting from tomorrow.Hokutoriki is great thus far and he will give Asa a hard time(at least on papers). I like Hokutoriki and I think he can do well the rest of the basho now that he has disposed of a few Ozeki, but although Asashoryu of course first must worry about Hokutoriki (they do meet tomorrow), I think his main threat should be Wakanosato. He's fallen apart before, but I think he's looked really sharp this basho (I haven't seen todays match yet) and maybe the only rikishi in my view to have a real shot at beating Asashoryu (although a fluke win could happen to pretty much anybody). It remains to be seen though... :-( Edited May 13, 2004 by Yubiquitoyama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yoavoshimaru 0 Posted May 13, 2004 who would expect results like that for the Yokozuna candidates by day 5...... @aderechelseamaru-zeki: Those of us who've been following them for years are not a surprised. There's a very good reason neither Kaio nor Chiyotaikai have become yokozuna: they choke. There have been comprehensive discussions on this point on the forum in the past, you can search for "choke" or "choking" to see some interesting old threads. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaikitsune Makoto 209 Posted May 13, 2004 Musoyama handled Tsuumi like expected; very dominating power and Tsuumi was a ragdoll. Occasionally ragdolls make wonders and today Tsuumi was able to balance at the tawara while Muso went blasting out. Good perseverance though by Tsuumi but he was really all over the place throughout the bout. Kotomitsuki lost again by himself. He is now 2-3 but in all his losses he has messed up his own bout. Today he dominated Wakanosato with superb triple hit following the tachi-ai, then going for yotsu and sotogake but Waka somehow slipped away (without much initiative from Waka) and Koto went sailing away and head first into the audience. This is a quality loss with tragicomic aspect. Koto is in good shape. Waka was lucky today. Kasugao and Hayateumi displayed what happens when tachi-ai works perferctly. Tosanoumi's confusion was transparent in that rapid loss due to perfect tachi-ai by Haya. When Haya was healthy and beating Musoyama with yorikiri he used to get these lightning wins when he seized the mawashi at the tachi-ai from the inside and burrowed in yotsu-magicing his way into a "what happened?"-win. Kasugao smothered Yotsukasa so totally that it made a puffing sound when Yotsu's sumo was emptied right at the spot. Adachinoryu's observant comment of Toki's tender foot prior to basho was important. Toki is very weak without any real power forward. His foes just expect the pulldown and while the initial power surge by Toki is feeble now, guys like Kotoryu and Tochisakae penetrate easily the defense despite usually having a lot of problems with Toki's sumo. 1-4 and going down badly. Wouldn't surprise me to see him 4-11 or even 3-12 at the end of the basho. KaioU can't fight upright now and is doomed if forced to that. Kakizoe did well to get into position to deliver upward tangent push from close range. There is not much KaioU can do about that as was seen on day 1. Chiyotaikai looks even worse. Not even having any bad ailment in his body, he has no excuse for showing such sumo on 2 days in a row. Dejima is strong in de-ashi as was seen in his day 4 bout against Shoryu and Taikai can't move so fast aside so was caught into the moment. Pulldown came as expected and Dejima capatilized. Dejima has a good chance to get fully back on track against KaioU tomorrow. Dejima is nightmarish foe to him now as he hits the midsection hard forcing KaioU to defend from awkward position. Tamakasuga is over and out. Maybe resurfaces later but now he looks like very tired and uninspired old oshi-man. If there is no injury hampering him badly, he is on his way out of sumo fast. Hakuho and Kaiho gave photographers some candy with their mutual disapperance from the dohyo. Kaiho's posture was funnier by a fraction. Hagiwara lost the second time the same way. Must be annoying...Kotooshu is 3-2 after being yet another victim of Toyonoshima's wonder sumo. Toyonoshima looks amazingly capable. "Grows with the rank" suits all these newcomers. Especially Hagiwara and Toyonoshima. Kotooshu is very good in juryo too but he had already more prominent status in makushita whereas Hagiwara and Toyonoshima were not that dominating in makushita so hence they seem to have grown with the rank even more than Osh. Ama's pain continues. Shoulder is really sore. Wakatoba has woken up while Kaido has fallen asleep. Roho looked very good the second day in a row now. No pulling! It is amazing how good the basho still feels even though ozeki are quite hopeless this basho for whatever reasons and one sekiwake is oddly listless (Tenho). Hokutoriki is a bright spot but more importantly the vast number of interesting genki rikishi to follow. Hagiwara, Kotooshu, Toyonoshima, Futeno, Roho, Hakuho, Sekiryu, Kinki and Kokkai all perform very well. Takanowaka won today but he is very much a lost case. He has become a juryo rikishi and is awfully handicapped against makuuchi sumo even at lower maegashira. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaikitsune Makoto 209 Posted May 13, 2004 There's a very good reason neither Kaio nor Chiyotaikai have become yokozuna: they choke It would be interesting to hear whether Taikai has some injury that doesn't heal. KaioU has failed many times at important bashos but he has never had the chance to choke in a yokozuna basho as those have been kyujo basho (2) or hopeless kyujo-body basho (1 Aki 2003). This could have been a good basho to choke! Maybe it is considered choking if he goes 9-6. Yet he was close to go kyujo at shonichi so hardly can be fully put to choking-phenomenon's fault this faltering on the dohyo. Would be nicer to see him compete healthy in these yokozuna promotion basho even if he would then fail at the end. This injured battle is most troublesome of all. At least in his many ozeki promotion candidacy bashos he was healthy and failed to deliver. We want one yokozuna promotion candidacy basho where he has the chance to choke damn it. It was possible that Kokonoe-oyakata almost choked to a baked bun when he saw his ozeki's pull today. Kaikitsune almost choked to rye bread when he saw Sakke's gestures while Buyuzan flew past yesterday in Kintamayama's report incident. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yoavoshimaru 0 Posted May 13, 2004 It's the infusion of new talent, as well as of course Asashoryu, that makes this basho exciting. Soem of us (not me unfortunately) who follow the toriteki with enthusiasm have known about this up-and-comers for a while, but to see them perform well as sekitori gives everyone hope a new era of talent is upon us. As for Chiyotaikai -- we know his problems are not physical. If they're physical, they're extremely well concealed and extremely durable. I think it's a mental issue. For both Chiyotaikai and Kaio, not winning the yusho this time would count as another choking experience in my book, because they were given the challenge from Rijicho with the hint of possible yokozuna promotion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coo-cook 0 Posted May 13, 2004 It seems most of the top guns having some sort of hang-overs from Takanonami's retirement party. No alcohol during basho, please. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sekihiryu 51 Posted May 13, 2004 [ There's a very good reason neither Kaio nor Chiyotaikai have become yokozuna: they choke. Yep, those two are members of the "Greg Norman Ozeki club" zuma too :-P (For those who dont know Greg Norman was an Australian Golfer who blew massive leads in the final rounds of major Golf Tournaments on many occasions, his name is synonomous with choking, so much so that in Australia there is a phenomenon known as Greg Norman Syndrome) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,319 Posted May 13, 2004 (edited) Tamakasuga is over and out. Maybe resurfaces later but now he looks like very tired and uninspired old oshi-man. If there is no injury hampering him badly, he is on his way out of sumo fast. And what a quick falling-apart it has been...it's been only a year since he was still able to dominate Juryo into a 12-3 yusho. But his Juryo records (in between his yoyo-ing to Makuuchi) since then really speak volumes...first that 12-3, four months later 10-5, last basho only 8-7, and now this. :-( Might be a year with a large number of prominent retirements...we've already had two ex-Komusubi and one former Ozeki, and with Tama and Tochinohana not doing all that well, the group of ex-sanyaku hanging it up may well become even bigger before year's end. (Laughing...) Hagiwara lost the second time the same way. Must be annoying...Kotooshu is 3-2 after being yet another victim of Toyonoshima's wonder sumo. Toyonoshima looks amazingly capable. "Grows with the rank" suits all these newcomers. Especially Hagiwara and Toyonoshima. Kotooshu is very good in juryo too but he had already more prominent status in makushita whereas Hagiwara and Toyonoshima were not that dominating in makushita so hence they seem to have grown with the rank even more than Osh. Well, Hagiwara did win the Makushita yusho only four months ago. :-D And I must admit that Toyonoshima is surprising the hell out of me; I had him pegged for something on the order of 5-10 and a quick trip back to Makushita for some more seasoning. I'm happy to be wrong in this case...the guy's sumo absolutely rocks. ;-) Wakatoba has woken up Another reason I've been a happy camper about Juryo the last couple of days. :-) It is amazing how good the basho still feels even though ozeki are quite hopeless this basho for whatever reasons and one sekiwake is oddly listless (Tenho). Hokutoriki is a bright spot but more importantly the vast number of interesting genki rikishi Edited May 13, 2004 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BuBa 76 Posted May 13, 2004 (edited) "Grows with the rank" Is this saying Japanese or English? Or did you make it up. Mongolians say "strenght follows the rank", describing that phenomenon of young wrestlers doing better after their promotion. With all upcoming talent the bashos getting really exciting. At the same time it is sad too see older guys to become ... mm older. I feel almost sorry for them. Edited May 13, 2004 by BuBa Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hoshidango 0 Posted May 14, 2004 I must admit that Toyonoshima is surprising the hell out of me; I had him pegged for something on the order of 5-10 and a quick trip back to Makushita for some more seasoning. I'm happy to be wrong in this case...the guy's sumo absolutely rocks. (Taking a photo...) TOYONOSHIMA Very impressed here, too! He has a potential to become Mini-Akinoshima(who was relatively small, at least very short). Mini but the same Jiriki(inate Sumo ability) as Aki. Squinting at his Banzuke.com video, looks like he's got a very strong Ashikoshi(good balancing of legs so that you don't fall) & a lot of power. In fact, not just mawashi-throws but also demonstrated by even sukui-nage for Tochifudo; the angle nor timing looked good enough to throw him out that dramatically without the strong force & ashikoshi. He is 168(reported as actual or 171 offical)cm & 125kg. He could gain some more, yet he could be one of very rare small sized{meaning (height + weight) /2} wrestlers to stick around at Upper Makuuchi(M3 or higher) by "straight facing" Yotsu(belt grabbing)-sumo. This I mean opposed to Mainoumi-Tomonohana type of sumo(plus those guys never stuck at the upper level). To me this type of sumo is enjoyable. It might even be possible for him to have semi-Gappuri-yotsu(almost full grabbing of belt by both parties) with bigger guys... may be not.. Well of course he might be forced to change the way given the much higher level of sumo at upper makuuchi if & when he reaches *sorry for many funny words* P.S. TAKANOTSURU & his OKURINAGE. Isn't that a kind of rare kimarite? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kashunowaka 300 Posted May 14, 2004 TAKANOTSURU & his OKURINAGE.Isn't that a kind of rare kimarite? Yes, but you wouldn't believe that judging from yesterday's bouts. (Taking a photo...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Naganoyama 5,911 Posted May 14, 2004 TAKANOTSURU & his OKURINAGE.Isn't that a kind of rare kimarite? Yes, but you wouldn't believe that judging from yesterday's bouts. (Taking a photo...) I was wondering whether Shoryu got the idea from Takanotsuru. i.e. he thought "Ah yes, I haven't done that one, I must try to do one of those some time". (Perhaps the opportunity arose sooner than expected). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaikitsune Makoto 209 Posted May 14, 2004 Is this saying Japanese or English? Or did you make it up. Mongolians say "strenght follows the rank", describing that phenomenon of young wrestlers doing better after their promotion I may have heard it somewhere, not sure though. In any case it carries the message well. Like you say it really seems to be mostly younger rikishi's trait to really grow with the rank. Older ones do that sometimes too but with more modest scale. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubiquitoyama 4 Posted May 14, 2004 (edited) Is this saying Japanese or English? Or did you make it up. Mongolians say "strenght follows the rank", describing that phenomenon of young wrestlers doing better after their promotion I may have heard it somewhere, not sure though. In any case it carries the message well. Like you say it really seems to be mostly younger rikishi's trait to really grow with the rank. Older ones do that sometimes too but with more modest scale. I think Musashimaru is a great example of an older rikishi growing with rank. His first years as Yokozuna were really on a level higher than his Ozeki years. Edited May 14, 2004 by Yubiquitoyama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kashunowaka 300 Posted May 14, 2004 Kaio is another example. Right after his rather narrow promotion to ozeki, I had my doubts about his ability of being consistent enough to keep the rank. Kaio's ozeki promotion was the 5th promotion in a very short time, and none of the other four (Chiyotaikai, Dejima, Musoyama, Miyabiyama) had been able to even stay at the same level as before their promotion. Kaio turned out to "grow with his rank". Eventually Chiyotaikai did too, but it took several years for him to be a good ozeki. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calchan 0 Posted May 14, 2004 Sumolive recording of the fifth day is here: <a href="ed2k://|file|sumo20040513.asf|118537537|83206046FA4CC35D2129194129D8866D|/">sumo20040513.asf</a> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yoavoshimaru 0 Posted May 14, 2004 Talking about rare kimarite: I want to see an ipponzeoi! And I believe with Asashoryu's skill, it's actually possible we'll see one in makuuchi sometime during his career. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hoshidango 0 Posted May 15, 2004 Is this saying Japanese or English? Or did you make it up. Mongolians say "strenght follows the rank", describing that phenomenon of young wrestlers doing better after their promotion it carries the message well. I think it has been often talked about. in a way sort of intermixed with "the responsibility" thing. Well, at least commentator Kamikaze, Tamanoumi & announcers did on NHK TV. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
