Kyushu Basho 2012 Discussion Thread

[nomadwolf 8]

Holy crap, they're starting the intra-ozeki bouts tomorrow. First time before nakabi since Kyushu 2000.

[Asashosakari 19,358]

Holy crap, they're starting the intra-ozeki bouts tomorrow. First time before nakabi since Kyushu 2000.

I thought that was unusual at first, too, but the way the schedule works right now with two yokozuna and four ozeki (and three intra-sanyaku bouts per day), they pretty much have to start by Day 7, so Day 6 isn't all that early.

Edit: Okay, by Day 8 at the very latest, although that would go against their usual habits, too.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama 45,145]

Holy crap, they're starting the intra-ozeki bouts tomorrow. First time before nakabi since Kyushu 2000.

I told you it would never happen..

[yorikiried by fate 2,028]

Spiritually speaking, you are still right, Moti.

[Morty 1,495]

Toyonoshima looks totally switched on this basho. Complete contrast to the last couple

[krindel 671]

And Jokoryu seems to find Makuuchi to be a whole different ball game than what came before... I guess this is the end of his rocket climb.

[Kuroyama 715]

Shohozan was prepared for tachi-ai trickery from Kisenosato, who as it turned out did no such thing. Then Kise lost. I'm afraid he'll take entirely the wrong lesson from this.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Kuroyama

[Morty 1,495]

Shohozan was prepared for tachi-ai trickery from Kisenosato, who as it turned out did no such thing. Then Kise lost. I'm afraid he'll take entirely the wrong lesson from this.

And that was a fabulous bout to watch too.

[Kintamayama 45,145]

Toyonoshima looks totally switched on this basho. Complete contrast to the last couple

Toyonoshima is at his lowest rank since July 2009. He should be walking through this bunch backwards. Nothing special- here he is the head of foxes. Up a bit, he's the tail of lions.

[Morty 1,495]

Toyonoshima looks totally switched on this basho. Complete contrast to the last couple

Toyonoshima is at his lowest rank since July 2009. He should be walking through this bunch backwards. Nothing special- here he is the head of foxes. Up a bit, he's the tail of lions.

I understand that he is operating at a lower level but he also looks hungrier and better prepared than he has for some time. The last couple of bashos he looked totally disaffected but this time he is ready to go. That might be because he knows he can beat the guys in front of him (he handled Aiyoama today with ease) or maybe he just got his mojo back:). Guess we'll see once he takes on a couple of Sanyaku. Regardless, as he's one of my favourites, it's great to watch

[Igordemorais 75]

O the sweet, sweet taste of Kisenosato`s defeat.

Hmmmm.....

[Ajisen 15]

Yoshikaze has been spirited at this basho very interesting to watch.

Loved Hakuho's stance today especially the nod at the end, "taking care of biz" was the order of the day.

Harumafuji looks like he is getting back in the groove. I must admit that I have not understood the attitude that with increasing rank there would be increasing pressure to do "big man" sumo especially if there are over 80 different techniques to choose from. Surely, it would be acceptable to tailor the technique to the opponent without fear of censure?

[Frinkanohana 13]

Holy crap, they're starting the intra-ozeki bouts tomorrow. First time before nakabi since Kyushu 2000.

I thought that was unusual at first, too, but the way the schedule works right now with two yokozuna and four ozeki (and three intra-sanyaku bouts per day), they pretty much have to start by Day 7, so Day 6 isn't all that early.

Edit: Okay, by Day 8 at the very latest, although that would go against their usual habits, too.

If I didn't miss something, the first intra-ozeki bouts in Nagoya this year were on Day 9. There were one yokozuna and six ozeki, so a total of seven, active in that basho. Now after Barutos injury only six remain active. How do you explain that with 7 Y/O it is possible to start the intra-ozeki bout on day 9, but have to start by day 8 at the latest with only 6 Y/O?

[Asashosakari 19,358]

If I didn't miss something, the first intra-ozeki bouts in Nagoya this year were on Day 9. There were one yokozuna and six ozeki, so a total of seven, active in that basho. Now after Barutos injury only six remain active. How do you explain that with 7 Y/O it is possible to start the intra-ozeki bout on day 9, but have to start by day 8 at the latest with only 6 Y/O?

Two factors:

- a yokozuna's schedule is generally less variable than an ozeki's, and now we have two of them

- with 10 active sanyaku there are only 3 intra-sanyaku bouts per day late in the basho, while with 11 sanyaku there are 4 daily bouts

Both factors reduce the available scheduling options.

Specifically, the "regular" scheduling for the rest of the current basho would be something like this:

    Ye  Yw O1e O1w
Ye   --  15  14  13
Yw   15  --  13  14
O1e  14  13  --  15
O1w  13  14  15  --

   O2e O2w O3e  Se  Sw  Ke  Kw
Ye   12  11  --  10   9   1   5
Yw   11  12  --   9  10  --   1
O1e          --       1       4
O1w          --           2   3

This leaves the four O1e/O1w vs. O2e/O2w bouts to put in. They can't go on Days 11 and 12 because the two O2 are already busy with the two yokozuna, and on Days 9 and 10 only one bout can be scheduled each day (because there are only three "slots" and the yokozuna vs. sekiwake bouts take up two of them). That leaves two more bouts for before Day 9. It's possible to schedule both on Day 8 (e.g. O1e-O2e + O1w-O2w), but in the past they have avoided "stacking" ozeki-ozeki matches like this on early days, so the more regular solution would be one bout on Day 7 and one bout on Day 8.

Of course there might be a more creative solution that would allow squeezing all necessary bouts into only 7 days (9 to 15) while still having only 3 bouts per day, but as far as I can tell that would require a lot of disruption of the yokozuna schedules, if it's possible at all.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Asashosakari

[Tsubame 361]

O the sweet, sweet taste of Kisenosato`s defeat.

Hmmmm.....

My feelings says, that this yusho goes to Kisenosato. :-)

[Swami 245]

I think back in 1980 yokozuna Wajima once faced ozeki Masuiyama II on the fourth day of a basho.

Swami

[Frinkanohana 13]

Thanks Asashosakari for the explanation. I didn't know that there are only 3 intra-sanyaku bouts per day with 10 active sanyaku. With this in mind it all makes sense to me.

I think back in 1980 yokozuna Wajima once faced ozeki Masuiyama II on the fourth day of a basho.

Swami

It was day 4 of the Nagoya basho 1980 when yokozuna Wajima faced ozeki Masuiyama.

There is also one instance of a yokozuna facing a ozeki and three intances of intra-ozeki bouts on day 1 of a basho, all in the 1970s. Look here.

[Asojima 2,874]

It was day 4 of the Nagoya basho 1980 when yokozuna Wajima faced ozeki Masuiyama.

There is also one instance of a yokozuna facing a ozeki and three intances of intra-ozeki bouts on day 1 of a basho, all in the 1970s. Look here.

The torikumi structure in the 70's was not as rank-driven as it is today. Early matchups between high sanyaku and low maegashira were not uncommon. It was more win/loss driven.

[Terarno 47]

How do you know who's on the receiving and giving ends of the Ozeki back scratching club when intra-Ozeki bouts happen so early ??

[Asashosakari 19,358]

The torikumi structure in the 70's was not as rank-driven as it is today. Early matchups between high sanyaku and low maegashira were not uncommon. It was more win/loss driven.

AFAIK the early and mid 1970s were also a high point for ozeki backscratching allegations, which probably explains the periodic bursts of very early O-O and Y-O matchups.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

Yes! Kisenosato didn't get his hands down at tachiai, but still got beat! His antics bug me to no end, and every defeat is an antidote. :-)

[Andreas21 184]

... Kisenosato didn't get his hands down at tachiai, but still got beat! His antics bug me to no end, ...

Pretty often bouts start with not all fists down, my perception is that the most frequent szenario is where one fist is down each.

What is special about Kise is that he has one hand in the air very obviously waiting for the moment the other one is not ready anymore. It seems to me that most others are doing a similar thing but not so obviously. Also special to Kise is that he extends this waiting period longer than anyone else. In tennis, Rafael Nadal is the king of that.

[Igordemorais 75]

Kisenosato Losing To One of My Favorite Rikishi

[Morty 1,495]

Three things about this basho I am really enjoying:

- the Asahisho salt throwing exhibition

- The return of the Geek. The Japanese crowd seems to follow him more than any of the others and today he did a fabulous job against a dangerous opponent. I don't think he's ever going to be a Yok, but I really enjoy watching him

- Chiyonokuni, Ikioi and Chiyotairyu. Young guys starting to hit their stride.

Also, today I got off the Kise band wagon. I have been a fan of his but today I really wanted Goeido to win. Which he did.

[Kogam 13]

I was hoping to find out if Takayasu was feeling genki? Anyone by chance speak with him-optimistic for a better start to the basho- moved up again I know. Maybe his got enough in the tank to get his Kk ?