Nagoya Basho 2013 discussion thread

[Nabuko 11]

Scenario 1: Hakuho wins his one tomorrow, Aoyama falls to Takayasu and Hakuho goes kyujo with yusho in his pocket (has this ever happened?)

Scenario 2: Hakuho goes kyujo tommorow, Aoiyama loses to Takayasu and some top guy next day, all of Kotooshu/Kisenosato/Kaisei go 2-1 or worse in remaining days, Hakuho yusho.

Scenario 3: Hakuho goes kuyjo tommorow, Kettei-sen with anywhere between 2-5 rikishi (incl.Hakuho), Hakuho comes back to win the kettei-sen! (is this possible rules-wise?)

Scenario 4 and what will probably happen. 15-0 Hakuho.

Once Chijunofuji badly hurt went kyujo and on final day he just pick up his memorabilia.

[Tsubame 359]

maybe his [Endo, added by Tsubame] new shikona for Makuuchi (is it possible to get there with a 14-1 yusho?) will be 無限の儀式 (Mugenogishiki).

(this feeble attempt to create a shikona was financed by "Google-Translate Productions")

I took this quote from another thread, because I what to hear the opinions from others about Endo possible promotion to makuuchi... I personally thinks that even with a 14-1 yusho he will not be promoted directly to makuuchi.

In january Takanoiwa took the juryo-yusho as J13e with a 13-2 and was "only" promoted to J4w. And today Endo has an even lower rank as J13w.

And, as far as I can use the query correctly, the lowest position for an "instant" makuuchi promotion with 14-1Y was J11w.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Tsubame

[Asashosakari 18,996]

Scenario 3: Hakuho goes kuyjo tommorow, Kettei-sen with anywhere between 2-5 rikishi (incl.Hakuho), Hakuho comes back to win the kettei-sen! (is this possible rules-wise?)

I doubt there's a specific rule about it, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't let him into the playoff unless he also fought his regular Day 15 bout. Edited July 18, 2013 by Asashosakari

[Nabuko 11]

maybe his [Endo, added by Tsubame] new shikona for Makuuchi (is it possible to get there with a 14-1 yusho?) will be 無限の儀式 (Mugenogishiki).

(this feeble attempt to create a shikona was financed by "Google-Translate Productions")

I took this quote from another thread, because I what to hear the opinions from others about Endo possible promotion to makuuchi... I personally thinks that even with a 14-1 yusho he will not be promoted directly to makuuchi.

In january Takanoiwa took the juryo-yusho as J13e with a 13-2 and was "only" promoted to J4w. And today Endo has an even lower rank as J13w.

And, as far as I can use the query correctly, the lowest position for an "instant" makuuchi promotion with 14-1Y was J11w.

Sagatsukasa 2011.05 J12e 13-2 Y 2011.07 M13e 8-7

With J12e and 13:2 Yusho he was promotted, Endo with 14:1 has good chances because in my opinion it will be more makuuchi slots that it is actually juryo rikishi to fill that.

[Asashosakari 18,996]

There is a topic specifically for promotion discussion, you know. ;-)

[Akinomaki 40,068]

Hakuho went to a hospital for check and treatment: “Nothing wrong with the bones, so it's OK.”

Miyagino-oyakata: “It is similar to a slightly pulled muscle. He likely got it at the tachi-ai impact. There should be no kyujo.”

Kitanoumi-rijicho confirmed that a 12-3 will lead to another yokozuna run next basho by Kisenosato.

Tokushoryu is the first this year to get a kachi-koshi in the first makuuchi basho.

Oosunaarashi after kachi-koshi, about Ramadan sumo: “I'm extremely tired.”

[krindel 671]

Hakuho went to a hospital for check and treatment: “Nothing wrong with the bones, so it's OK.”

Miyagino-oyakata: “It is similar to a slightly pulled muscle. He likely got it at the tachi-ai impact. There should be no kyujo.”

Kitanoumi-rijicho confirmed that a 12-3 will lead to another yokozuna run next basho by Kisenosato.

Another yokozuna run? Last time at least Kise looked VERY dominant throughout the basho, this time there was nothing even remotely yokozuna-ish about his first week.

I wonder if Hakuho might end up having his first kyujo basho as yokozuna on this even weaker yokozuna run for Kisenosato. All they really need to make his possible promotion a complete joke is a fusensho against Hak on Saturday, and a 12-3 playoff yusho next time, with an absent Hakuho.

Why on earth can't they let the poor guy straighten up his sumo without all this pressure? I think he'll eventually get there without having to be saddled with the weakest promotion record in 25 years... After all, they need the next Takanohana, not the next Onokuni to really make a difference in sumo's popularity...

[ALAKTORN 346]

I hope Hakuhō is fine. He needs to zenshō.

[Akinomaki 40,068]

Hakuho after the bout: "It felt like electricity running through."

Nikkan and NHK speak of a bruise.

Miyagino-oyakata: "No kyujo tomorrow."

[Akinomaki 40,068]

Kitanoumi-rijicho confirmed that a 12-3 will lead to another yokozuna run next basho by Kisenosato.

Another yokozuna run? Last time at least Kise looked VERY dominant throughout the basho, this time there was nothing even remotely yokozuna-ish about his first week.

Why on earth can't they let the poor guy straighten up his sumo without all this pressure? I think he'll eventually get there without having to be saddled with the weakest promotion record in 25 years... After all, they need the next Takanohana, not the next Onokuni to really make a difference in sumo's popularity...

With this announcement they increase a bit the suspense for the remaining 3 days and may boost sales slightly - and if he wins all 3 they have the Kise factor again for next basho.

But with this announcement they also increase the pressure on him again and may destroy his chances.

Apparently they don't care how if they can get a Japanese yokozuna. He will never be another Takanohana anyway.

[p2501 15]

Kitanoumi-rijicho confirmed that a 12-3 will lead to another yokozuna run next basho by Kisenosato.

Another yokozuna run? Last time at least Kise looked VERY dominant throughout the basho, this time there was nothing even remotely yokozuna-ish about his first week.

Why on earth can't they let the poor guy straighten up his sumo without all this pressure? I think he'll eventually get there without having to be saddled with the weakest promotion record in 25 years... After all, they need the next Takanohana, not the next Onokuni to really make a difference in sumo's popularity...

With this announcement they increase a bit the suspense for the remaining 3 days and may boost sales slightly - and if he wins all 3 they have the Kise factor again for next basho.

But with this announcement they also increase the pressure on him again and may destroy his chances.

Apparently they don't care how if they can get a Japanese yokozuna. He will never be another Takanohana anyway.

If the goal is to further sales of the next basho, they could have waited with the statement for a couple days. Or maybe it is meant as an encouragement?

[krindel 671]

Apparently they don't care how if they can get a Japanese yokozuna. He will never be another Takanohana anyway.

No, but if he is unready and is not even as good a Yokozuna as Harumafuji, I doubt it would do the sport any good. The more time it passes until the next Japanes Yokozuna comes along, the better he will have to be...

[Mark.Buckton 68]

Kitanoumi-rijicho confirmed that a 12-3 will lead to another yokozuna run next basho by Kisenosato.

Another yokozuna run? Last time at least Kise looked VERY dominant throughout the basho, this time there was nothing even remotely yokozuna-ish about his first week.

Why on earth can't they let the poor guy straighten up his sumo without all this pressure? I think he'll eventually get there without having to be saddled with the weakest promotion record in 25 years... After all, they need the next Takanohana, not the next Onokuni to really make a difference in sumo's popularity...

With this announcement they increase a bit the suspense for the remaining 3 days and may boost sales slightly - and if he wins all 3 they have the Kise factor again for next basho.

that this was an option has been clear for days.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Mark.Buckton

[Asashosakari 18,996]

Takarafuji is providing shades of Kyokutenho's yusho basho...okay, he's not going to duplicate that, but he's quietly put together a KK record and is even sort of in the race for the sanyaku slots, and he's done it without facing any of the other contenders except Okinoumi (and that was on Day 1 as part of a paint-by-numbers schedule). Hurray for starting 3-4 and turning it into an 8-4, I guess. Meanwhile Ikioi, whose record is functionally identical, is already on his 5th contender opponent, and Okinoumi has also had 5.

[Akinomaki 40,068]

Apparently they don't care how if they can get a Japanese yokozuna. He will never be another Takanohana anyway.

No, but if he is unready and is not even as good a Yokozuna as Harumafuji, I doubt it would do the sport any good. The more time it passes until the next Japanes Yokozuna comes along, the better he will have to be...

Times have changed. Now the mere presence of a Japanese yokozuna is desirable. Sure a dominant yokozuna would be better, but the yokozuna as a symbol is important enough.

He might also grow with the rank – that's a common thing in Japanese martial arts and I think certain types of Japanese are more likely to actually fulfill that hope (I think he is like that), while foreigners are more likely to slack off or fluctuate more (e. g. recent foreign ozeki and yokozuna – except Hakuho) – I'm also speaking from personal non-sumo experience there.

I think he would not even reach the number of yusho by Harumafuji, but deliver constantly 11-13 wins, for maybe 5 years. Like his mentioned record of makuuchi appearances shows, you don't hear kyujo talk about him, rarely injured (except the eye of course). After all, he matured from a barely appropriately promoted ozeki in 1½ years to one good enough to have a (again barely appropriate) yokozuna run.

(I still think the announcement will destroy his hopes for next basho).

Edited July 18, 2013 by Akinomaki

[Benevolance 2,484]

If I were you I'd be more upset with myself for thinking Kotooshu was actually in the yusho race.

Ha ha, true! But it's sometimes nice to get past day 12 and not have the yuusho already decided. Now I've got to pin my hopes on Aoiyama and hope that he...I can't even type that without laughing.

Kisenosato might also grow with the rank

Plus, as long as Harumafuji is around, the YDC will have someone to complain about. It might actually ease some of the pressure on Kisenosato!

[Asashosakari 18,996]

I wonder if Hakuho might end up having his first kyujo basho as yokozuna on this even weaker yokozuna run for Kisenosato. All they really need to make his possible promotion a complete joke is a fusensho against Hak on Saturday, and a 12-3 playoff yusho next time, with an absent Hakuho.

Is it time again to list the circumstances of Asashoryu's yokozuna run?

In any case, if Kise put together a hypothetical 13-2J, 12-3J, whatever-whateverY run, I wouldn't see much wrong with promoting him. How did that splendid 30-0 run from Harumafuji work out again?

Edit: Apropos of something...

Edited July 18, 2013 by Asashosakari

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

Obviously Endo is the next Japanese yokozuna. That is what I have decided anyway!

[Asashosakari 18,996]

No, no, no, Jokoryu is.

(This message brought to you by the year 2012.)

[Masumasumasu 902]

Jokoryu didn't win the Juryo yusho until his third time out.

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

Hoho...Jokoryu will be right up there...sanyaku..as soon as he sorts out both his obvious injury and his mentality! Ok...maybe a year or two.

[wanderer 159]

No kyujo for Hakuho makes perfect sense. Without him Kisenosato's Yok run wouldn't look impressive. Hakuho will probably lose rest of his bouts, resisting Kisenosato "valiantly" along the way. Reminds me of Hakuho's own Yok run with presence of "gravely injured" Asashoryu.

I am not seeding here any conspiracy theory, just saying.

[Asashosakari 18,996]

All this talk (about both Haru and Kise) concerning how good a "second-in-command yokozuna" needs to be to look credible is making me wonder one thing - how exactly was Kashiwado perceived in his own time?

Basho	Taiho	Kashiwado		Basho	Taiho	Kashiwado		Basho	Taiho	Kashiwado
1961.11	13-2 Y	12-3 J	[/td2]	1964.07	1-4-10	0-0-15		1967.03	13-2 J	11-4
1962.01	13-2 Y	10-5		1964.09	14-1 Y	4-2-9		1967.05	14-1 Y	13-2 J
1962.03	13-2 D	11-4		1964.11	14-1 Y	2-4-9		1967.07	2-1-12	14-1 Y
1962.05	11-4	11-4		1965.01	11-4	0-0-15		1967.09	15-0 Y	9-6
1962.07	14-1 Y	11-4 J		1965.03	14-1 Y	0-0-15		1967.11	11-2-2 J	11-4 J
1962.09	13-2 Y	11-4		1965.05	9-6	9-6		1968.01	1-3-11	9-6
1962.11	13-2 Y	12-3 J		1965.07	13-2 Y	12-3 J		1968.03	0-0-15	9-6
1963.01	14-1 Y	0-0-15		1965.09	11-4	12-3 Y		1968.05	0-0-15	4-4-7
1963.03	14-1 Y	5-1-9		1965.11	13-2 Y	1-1-13		1968.07	0-0-15	10-5
1963.05	15-0 Y	0-0-15		1966.01	0-0-15	14-1 Y		1968.09	14-1 Y	9-6
1963.07	12-3	0-0-15		1966.03	13-2 Y	10-5		1968.11	15-0 Y	11-4
1963.09	14-1 J	15-0 Y		1966.05	14-1 Y	12-3 J		1969.01	15-0 Y	10-5
1963.11	12-3 J	10-5		1966.07	14-1 Y	12-3 J		1969.03	3-2-10	9-6
1964.01	15-0 Y	12-3		1966.09	13-2 Y	13-2 D		1969.05	13-2 Y	9-6
1964.03	15-0 Y	14-1 J		1966.11	15-0 Y	10-5		1969.07	11-4	1-3-intai
1964.05	10-5	11-1-3		1967.01	15-0 Y	12-3		[/td][td2]

Edited July 18, 2013 by Asashosakari

[Asashosakari 18,996]

Also, the above table is a good reminder that even the famed Taiho had his share of rather dull records. Hakuho's consistency truly is frightening.

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

Thanks for that, Pierre. I get sick of hearing this kind of stuff. I have to say, however, it would be nice if Harumafuji took the occasional basho off when he's not feeling up to it. After all, Takanohana took SEVEN tournaments off IN A ROW to 'recover'.