Will Hakuho (be allowed to) surpass Taiho's yusho record?

[krindel 675]

He sticks to the short-cut style and gives a reason to the effect that it's also for making the dohyo-iri less straining. Head shimpan Isegehama was not amused by the explanation.

I find the public character AND the continuation of this "debate" very weird. I would assume it would be sorted out with a meeting of Isegahama + anyone else involved with Miyagino and Hakuho without having to resort to involving the press.

I hope it is not a half baked ploy to create the semblance of friction between Hakuho and the NSK in anticipation of the difficult situation that is more or less inevitably coming 4 yusho from now...

Do you mean because he's going to catch up with Taiho? Or is it Chiyonofuji? I'm a bit confused by what you mean krindel.

When / if he gets to 31 yusho (which is very probable to have been done by this day next year), there will be two realistic options: Retire (or be retired, I guess), or surpass Taiho. I REALLY don't see him hanging around for a long time not winning any yusho.

My view is that he'll pass Taiho, but there are many people (in this forum too) who I have to admit have knowledge on Japanese matters, and who have stated the opinion that the NSK will find it hard to let that happen.

So Hakuho's future 31st yusho will probably be the "crucial" moment in time when it will become obvious what the road selected will be. All I said is that I hope this is not the precursor to a "vilification" of Hakuho to sow the ground for that day.

[Bugman 384]

He sticks to the short-cut style and gives a reason to the effect that it's also for making the dohyo-iri less straining. Head shimpan Isegehama was not amused by the explanation.

I find the public character AND the continuation of this "debate" very weird. I would assume it would be sorted out with a meeting of Isegahama + anyone else involved with Miyagino and Hakuho without having to resort to involving the press.

I hope it is not a half baked ploy to create the semblance of friction between Hakuho and the NSK in anticipation of the difficult situation that is more or less inevitably coming 4 yusho from now...

Do you mean because he's going to catch up with Taiho? Or is it Chiyonofuji? I'm a bit confused by what you mean krindel.

When / if he gets to 31 yusho (which is very probable to have been done by this day next year), there will be two realistic options: Retire (or be retired, I guess), or surpass Taiho. I REALLY don't see him hanging around for a long time not winning any yusho.

My view is that he'll pass Taiho, but there are many people (in this forum too) who I have to admit have knowledge on Japanese matters, and who have stated the opinion that the NSK will find it hard to let that happen.

So Hakuho's future 31st yusho will probably be the "crucial" moment in time when it will become obvious what the road selected will be. All I said is that I hope this is not the precursor to a "vilification" of Hakuho to sow the ground for that day.

Ah ok i understood correctly then, Sumo is a really weird sport sometimes, just when i think i know it more or less i learn something new that i find odd, i'd like to think that Hak will be allowed to pass the record if he is good enough, i'm hoping that the possibility of that kind of attitude being exhibited just won't be acceptable in the modern day, Hak is everything a Yokozuna should be, if they turn him away i'l lose all respect for the sport, and i almost left it when i found out about Yaocho but Hak being forced out would seal the deal for me, i'd lose all interest, but i am optimistic that won't happen. *fingers.toes and tentacles crossed*

[Mark.Buckton 68]

there will be no moves in the NSK to stop Hakuho moving past Chiyonofuji or Taiho.

Anyone thinking this is even the remotest possibility has no idea of the way sumo works now. The only 'obstacle' is Hakuho's own willingness to move ahead of a guy he worships but as is the case in so many aspects of Japanese culture, in doing so, you are showing the ultimate respect.

[Tsubame 368]

there will be no moves in the NSK to stop Hakuho moving past Chiyonofuji or Taiho.

I guess the NSK will do nothing against Hakuho in a direkt way. That would be too obvious and suspicious. But on the other hand I can really imagine that the "old hardliner" will do erverything that is possible to make sure, that Hakuho will never get more yushos than Chijonofuji. There are nice ways to do that, for example, after he gets his 29. or 30. yusho, he will be honoured with some special tasks to represent sumo in new ways (or whatever reasons they find), sending him around Japan or even the whole world. Those tasks will take time and will given him less time to train.

But Ican also imagine a totally ridiculous plot against him (worst case scenario): after his 30. yusho and the next basho is like be won by him. Maybe some magical tsukebito (is a deus ex machina style) will show up and testify that he and maybe others was abused by him for years. Of course the NSK will gratefully accept his intai...

[Mark.Buckton 68]

Tsubame - anything they do now will be noticed - and Hakuho is the only effective yokozuna / ticket seller at the moment. They really will do nothing.

In fact - I think they would, if anything, go the opposite and publicize his achievement.

[Tsubame 368]

and Hakuho is the only effective yokozuna / ticket seller at the moment.

There we have:

Kisenosato (possible tsuna-run)

Endo (newest fresh japanese hope)

Jokoryu (former japanese hope)

Goeido (possible ozeki-run)

the bunch of well performing Chiyo***'s

Osunaarashi

If Hakuho would suddently retire tomorow, sumo would be quite more interessting, at least to me. Because then you cannot clearly predict who will win the yusho, which is far more entertaining then the last bashos.

[Bugman 384]

and Hakuho is the only effective yokozuna / ticket seller at the moment.

There we have:

Kisenosato (possible tsuna-run)

Endo (newest fresh japanese hope)

Jokoryu (former japanese hope)

Goeido (possible ozeki-run)

the bunch of well performing Chiyo***'s

Osunaarashi

If Hakuho would suddently retire tomorow, sumo would be quite more interessting, at least to me. Because then you cannot clearly predict who will win the yusho, which is far more entertaining then the last bashos.

From a personal point of view i wouldn't find Sumo any more interesting because of new basho winners, was Kyokutenho's win that interesting? Admirable yes but hardly something that i'd swap for seeing Hak fight regularly, i can imagine now Kisenosato and Harumafuji battling it out as two Yokozuna, but in the back of my mind Hak would be there and his absence would still be very obvious to me, it would not elevate Kise and Haru to his level in my mind just because he is gone.

[Randomitsuki 2,843]

From what I gather, sumo often was at the highest of its popularity when there were long-standing rivalries at the very top (Tanikaze/Onogawa; Taiho/Kashiwado; Akebono/Hanada brothers). It certainly helps if at least one of the rivals were Japanese. That being said, the earlier Hakuho's full domination decreases, the more interesting might the public at large perceive sumo.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Randomitsuki

[Asashosakari 19,655]

Have to agree with Mark here. Just about the only "event" I could see happen in the course of Hakuho breaking the yusho record would be him receiving Japanese citizenship by the time he gets there.

[Masumasumasu 902]

Was Chiyonofuji (Japanese) allowed to reach Taiho's (Ukranian) 32? No. They 'stopped' him at 31. Why?

Because the Japanese have a soft spot for the Ukranian people?

[Kintamayama 45,527]

3 masu nailed it. Bringing up the possibility is so paranoid and totally unbased on anything from the past that it boggles my goggles.

[Andreas21 188]

I consider this a perfectly reasonable question. Simply, because a large obstacle to foreigners in Sumo is installed since many years, the one-by-Heya rule. Since they did this, they may also set up other hurdles, openly or hidden. On the other hand, it is a big difference from blocking 50 Monglians from Sandamne and lower Makushita (which would possibly occur, if they would lift the ban) to sacking the number-one wrestler.

As you may know, the British Premier League (soccer) also installed a scheme to improve the chances for English footballers (this not just happening in WEIRD Japan), while at the same time, the best international players are highly welcome.

The NSK may or may not keep Hakuho away from the record, and if they would I reckon they will start it sooner than after the 30th Yusho.

The NSK has also good reasons not to do it. Hakuho is percieved as THE master of Sumo. Watching one of the best Rikishi of all times may be a reason for a certain fraction of the audience, which the NSK would refrain to lose, even if they think indeed about how to hinder Hakuho in the duel of the ages.

Difficult to say, if Asashoyu's complete ban from Sumo has something to do with his good chances reaching 32 as well. Even if the NSK did, Asashoryu gave them all the opportunities to do so inconspicously. On the other hand, keeping Asashoryu would have made it much harder for Hakuho to reach 32 yusho.

It is also noteworthy, that Taiho was not hindered to reach 32 yusho, although he was half-Russian.

[Kaioshoryu 63]

Has there been instances in the past where the NSK has stopped rikishi from reaching milestones?

Thinking that Hakuho will be stopped is total tinfoilhat stuff, that belongs on other sumo sites. If the NSK has the will and the power to go in and decide things, why isn't there a japanese yokozuna already?

[Masumasumasu 902]

Has there been instances in the past where the NSK has stopped rikishi from reaching milestones?

Thinking that Hakuho will be stopped is total tinfoilhat stuff, that belongs on other sumo sites. If the NSK has the will and the power to go in and decide things, why isn't there a japanese yokozuna already?

Of course. Kisenosato could have potentially made Yokozuna by now had he managed to defeat Kotoshogiku in May and July.

Such a scenario could have easily been 'arranged' had the Kyokai deemed such a strategy to be a good idea.

[Asashosakari 19,655]

I bet there's significant overlap between people who think Hakuho will be "prevented" from catching Taiho, and people who thought the Kyokai would do something to prevent a mere ozeki from breaking Chiyonofuji's all-time wins record.

[Randomitsuki 2,843]

Hakuho already broke Taiho's zensho yusho record although according to some sources the NSK was intent on preventing from that to happen.

[Swami 245]

Has there been instances in the past where the NSK has stopped rikishi from reaching milestones?

Thinking that Hakuho will be stopped is total tinfoilhat stuff, that belongs on other sumo sites. If the NSK has the will and the power to go in and decide things, why isn't there a japanese yokozuna already?

It was often suggested that the famous misjudgement which resulted in Taiho's 45-bout rensho being ended incorrectly was possibly done to stop him going after Futabayama's record of 69 - Futabayama had died fairly recently prior to that.

Swami

[Mark.Buckton 68]

and Hakuho is the only effective yokozuna / ticket seller at the moment.

There we have:

Kisenosato (possible tsuna-run)

Endo (newest fresh japanese hope)

Jokoryu (former japanese hope)

Goeido (possible ozeki-run)

the bunch of well performing Chiyo***'s

Osunaarashi

If Hakuho would suddently retire tomorow, sumo would be quite more interessting, at least to me. Because then you cannot clearly predict who will win the yusho, which is far more entertaining then the last bashos.

I am going to take a stab in the dark and guess you do not live here.

Kise is popular, Endo increasingly so, but if you find anyone naming the other names as a reason to buy tickets (except family/friends/groupies) I will dig out my stetson and start nibbling.

[Wurstbroetchen 5]

Japanese people have style!

If sumo were a english sport people would booh as always the same man wins.

They would say: we are no longer interested, it is boring. (Especially because the winner is a foreigner)

They would say: the man is not good, he just has the best mawashi!

I am thinking of F1.

Japanese people are sportsmen. They don't do something like that.

[Tsubame 368]

Was Chiyonofuji (Japanese) allowed to reach Taiho's (Ukranian) 32? No. They 'stopped' him at 31. Why?

Because the Japanese have a soft spot for the Ukranian people?

Taiho was still half-japanese, with a japanese mother... so I would guess he had a japanese citizenship from his birth on.

On the pro-side of letting Hakuho try to surpass the old recods, is the fact that that would definetly rise the attention for sumo. Most kinds of sport are then most interessting (even for person who are not interessted in that sport at other times), when a record is about to get set.

I am going to take a stab in the dark and guess you do not live here.

Kise is popular, Endo increasingly so, but if you find anyone naming the other names as a reason to buy tickets (except family/friends/groupies) I will dig out my stetson and start nibbling.

For me it is a good indicator to watch/listen the dohyo-iri.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Tsubame

[Mark.Buckton 68]

Was Chiyonofuji (Japanese) allowed to reach Taiho's (Ukranian) 32? No. They 'stopped' him at 31. Why?

Because the Japanese have a soft spot for the Ukranian people?

Taiho was still half-japanese, with a japanese mother... so I would guess he had a japanese citizenship from his birth on.

Taiho was only legally Japanese from the mid-80s as nationality only passed through the male line until that time. Never through the female line.

[Washuyama 641]

I will dig out my stetson and start nibbling.

I wouldn't expect you to own an American hat...