Video Stream - Availability

[ScreechingOwl 343]

As someone living near New York City in America, I've watched the live feed for at least 8 years. I remember when the quality was even poorer than it is today, when disconnects were a frequent occurrence and when it wasn't always possible to get the feed because the system could only handle a certain number of people. If I came in late, especially on a weekend, I might not be able to get on for half an hour, if at all. And until the last few years only the makuuchi division was available.

I think the quality of the current feed (well, the feed as of the Kyushu basho) is pretty good. However, it's just a live feed. One camera. No announcer(s). No graphics. No playbacks, slow motion or reverse or other angles. I don't mean to sound facetious, but sports live sports coverage like this, at least in the US, hasn't existed since the 1950s, if ever.

Maybe a decade ago major league baseball decided to show a baseball game like this: just a live feed, with crowd noises, no playbacks, no announcers. I think they had more than one camera, but basically just used one angle for the game (it's been awhile so I may be wrong here). It got a lot of press at the time, and I watched part of it. After the initial curiosity factor, it was very boring. I didn't watch the whole game, and I wouldn't pay for coverage like that. Maybe that's the type of coverage sumo fans in Japan want to pay money for, but I rather doubt it.

I do pay for major league baseball's internet coverage. For about $120, I get the whole baseball season, 162 games per team. I can watch the games with either teams announcers for almost every game. I do get blocked from my local teams (which for me is the New York Yankees, the New York Mets, and, somewhat curiously, the Boston Red Sox). I can watch all 27 other teams (except when they play one of the three blocked teams). So all told for my $120, I can watch almost 2,000 games over a six month period, with announcers, multiple camera angles, and slow motion or reverse angle playbacks. And the games can be seen either live in real time or later, at my convenience.

I understand that there are difference between what happens in the US and what happens in Japan. And I understand that the JSA is a business, although an abysmally run one. It can charge whatever it wants to for the live feed service. I'm not going to pay $10 a night ($15 for the last night, which, at least 4 out of 6 basho is a joke anyway, with a winner already decided, rushed matches and most rikishi just dialing it in), or $120 a basho.

I don't have any cable or satellite service. I can afford it, it's a lifestyle choice - I haven't watched tv for over a decade. I'll look into Japan tv however. If I can still watch sumo at a reasonable price on it I will get it. I enjoy seeing the juryo matches, but it's not a life or death thing for me. But if JSA shuts down all other delayed footage, and I can't get Japan tv, then sumo, and sumo games, will be over for me. I'm sure most people here are in similar straights.

It should be noted that the manner in which this whole thing has been carried out -- no prior notice to people although this has obviously been in the works for many months, and probably longer -- displays a contempt for sumo fans everywhere. I wonder what business school teaches this model of client "service"?

[Masumasumasu 902]

Free sumo should be a human right.

What would the great Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King Junior say?

[Shiro 13]

That's the big thing. No matter how big of a fan you are 120 ($720 a year) dollars a month for six months is just not doable for 99 percent of sumo fans across the globe. That's really outrageous. Kids eat or I watch sumo...not a tough decision.

[Kuroyama 715]

the doujinshi market, if being understood properly as it has a lot of grey areas is minor given the scale the Japanese government are talking. And let's not forget - the NSK falls under the watchful eye of the Education Ministry if I am not mistaken.

On the scale of the international sumo fan community, the doujinshi market is enormous. Comiket attracts well over a half million attendees in each of two shows every year. Hell, that may even dwarf the local Japanese sumo fan community. About 35,000 doujinshi circles participate, all of them selling their work for cash with much of it based on existing IP. In the US it would be an extraordinarily clear-cut case of copyright infringement, and on a massive scale.

And this is merely the largest convention for doujinshi; there are many others.

Would it be possible to cobble together a convention where you could attract even a tenth as many international sumo fans?

[Mark.Buckton 68]

the doujinshi market, if being understood properly as it has a lot of grey areas is minor given the scale the Japanese government are talking. And let's not forget - the NSK falls under the watchful eye of the Education Ministry if I am not mistaken.

On the scale of the international sumo fan community, the doujinshi market is enormous. Comiket attracts well over a half million attendees in each of two shows every year. Hell, that may even dwarf the local Japanese sumo fan community. About 35,000 doujinshi circles participate, all of them selling their work for cash with much of it based on existing IP. In the US it would be an extraordinarily clear-cut case of copyright infringement, and on a massive scale.

And this is merely the largest convention for doujinshi; there are many others.

Would it be possible to cobble together a convention where you could attract even a tenth as many international sumo fans?

I appreciate what you say / mean, but I am talking the government co-operating with broadcasters overseas as well as official publishers and selling rights. Not only in one country - in many. Billions of dollars! You saw it here first. ;)

[Mark.Buckton 68]

AFAIK, if like the main HP, the FB site is run by an outside agency.

[Kintamayama 44,647]

I suggest everyone take a deep breath- Araibira is not going anywhere. I suggest lowering profile for now and not causing a storm needlessly. Not one video of a bout was taken down. Everything is fine for now-don't wake the lying dogs. Nuff said.

[Mark.Buckton 68]

If I am not mistaken, when TV first showed sumo in the early 50s, many thought it would impact on attendance at the stadium. Maybe it is time for a mass-trip to Japan, mass-demo by foreign fans?

[p2501 15]

"残念てす。すごく残念。

120ドル？高すぎ！ドイツから見た、ほとんど毎日。

Please save the foreign osumo community!"

Nihon Sumo Kyokai likes that‹

[shumitto 418]

Free sumo should be a human right.

What would the great Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King Junior say?

"Remember that everything the JSA do is legal". (Or would he say "does" instead ?)

[sekihiryu 51]

Heres an analogy, a Baseball analogy.

For years we've be enjoying some sandlot baseball, for free, in a city park (a low quality, fixed camera, no instant replay, no commentary stream) suddenly we've been told that the games are now at Yankee stadium, wow! we say, we look at the program and even though its Yankee stadium it's still sandlot baseball. WTF W.......T.......F........ Understandably many are livid. If you are going to charge Yankee stadium prices, you better damn well provide the Yankees (a 4500Mbps + feed, commentary, multiple camera angle feeds (i.e coaches reel), curated highlights, compressed games, access to the archives. i.e NFL game pass quality)

Its not about the paying, like anything in life you get what you pay for. Its quite mind boggling to jack the prices to the premium service level and not provide premium service.The cost of the package is absolutely no where near commensurate with the product being offered. To think it is - is utterly delusional.

$10 for 15 days, $1.95 for a day, that is a fair price for what is being offered. That is a planet Earth price.

You charge Yankees prices, you gotta provide Yankees service, not sandlot quality.

Quite frankly, it's embarrassing, it's a joke, it's clueless.

To all those outside of Japan, I truly feel for you, for me it's just removed a secondary viewing option that I I did enjoy on the train, I still have the primary option at home, though with the geniuses in the NSK, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if they completely screw that up in the near future aswell

The NSK couldn't organize a piss-up in a brewery

Edited January 14, 2014 by sekihiryu

[Benevolance 2,484]

If I am not mistaken, when TV first showed sumo in the early 50s, many thought it would impact on attendance at the stadium. Maybe it is time for a mass-trip to Japan, mass-demo by foreign fans?

That is a complete non-sequitor.

Having an affordable, quality video feed doesn't diminish foreign interest in sumo - it makes the sport accessible to foreigners that might want more after getting a taste. And who might continue to come back. My wife and I now go for a sumo tournament every couple years and we conservatively budget about $4000 for admissions and food at the stadium over the 15 days. Tokyo seems able to sustain itself with local audiences, but in Fukuoka there were lots of foreigners every day; very few like us that are attending the tournament daily, but I seriously doubt the foreign attendance numbers are insubstantial. Our interest in the sport stays piqued by watching the tournament stream in between.

If the NSK got advice that their pricing model was sustainable to the foreign market, they obviously got very bad advice or did no research. Perhaps both. But as Fukurou posted with USTREAM's T&C, these prices are set for the event. Nothing can change for Hatsu. But perhaps with luck, we'll see a better pricing model come the Osaka tournament that puts prices more in the $1-3/day international price range. A buck a day for the current stream is a fair deal; and if they add some bells and whistles, $3 could be sustainable.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Benevolance

[Kitakachiyama 9]

I suggest everyone take a deep breath- Araibira is not going anywhere. I suggest lowering profile for now and not causing a storm needlessly. Not one video of a bout was taken down. Everything is fine for now-don't wake the lying dogs. Nuff said.

The dogs are waking up...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpvlBED9Hhk

[Kintamayama 44,647]

I suggest everyone take a deep breath- Araibira is not going anywhere. I suggest lowering profile for now and not causing a storm needlessly. Not one video of a bout was taken down. Everything is fine for now-don't wake the lying dogs. Nuff said.

The dogs are waking up...

As I said, take it easy. This is from yesterday. No bouts were taken down-the warning was about something else.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Kintamayama

[Bugman 384]

That really is sad, sad news. I know the Kyokai are within their rights to charge for Sumo, i wouldn't argue with that, but Araibira really took Sumo to the masses outside of Japan, you are a Sumo legend Araibira, thank you for everything you've done.

[ronnie 221]

Remember when the quality of the live streaming dramatically and inexplicably improved? I would guess that the plan to charge began not too much before that.

Also that cost per day. How much would it be to pay for a seat at much the same position in the stadium as the camera is situated?

$10 per day?

More?

[Asashosakari 18,974]

Remember when the quality of the live streaming dramatically and inexplicably improved? I would guess that the plan to charge began not too much before that.

And then they took two and a half years to implement it? That strikes me as, err, somewhat implausible. Not to mention that the improved/extended coverage mainly came about due to a loss of TV coverage for the divisions before juryo. (Plus that whole non-basho honbasho deal.) Not very inexplicable at all, actually.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Asashosakari

[Benevolance 2,484]

Also that cost per day. How much would it be to pay for a seat at much the same position in the stadium as the camera is situated?

The camera is set up basically in front of the assigned stadium seating. The prices vary a lot by venue. In Fukuoka, the area is about $40. In Osaka, it's $96-110.

Edit: But in all venues, the general admission (IE, a seat in the corner) are about $20. And the view from the corner is not remarkably different from the view in the center.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Benevolance

[Mukonoso 273]

When I checked out the NSK Facebook page to see the people complaining or asking for more reasonableness, I saw at least one person begging on behalf of our friend in Hawaii and using his web name "Please let Araibira continue to post his sumo videos". Basically calling more attention to him and making it harder for him to slide under the radar.

[torquato 1,075]

Yes let him out of the complaints. That's not the issue. It's about an affordable decent live feed and not about the tolerance of a YT channel or maybe even pirated streams. We want access to a live broadcast under acceptable terms. Past streams and comparison with other sports worldwide show that that is possible.

[specialweek 2 136]

I presume NSK have allowed Ustream Japan a deal on the internet rights but surely not exclusive. So these high rates must be related to the fee they are paying NSK.

I wonder what is an acceptable price for PPV.

$5 a day. $70 a basho. $350 a year.

[Fukurou 534]

I presume NSK have allowed Ustream Japan a deal on the internet rights but surely not exclusive. So these high rates must be related to the fee they are paying NSK.

http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=32232&page=6#entry253261

[Asojima 2,873]

Araibira's Day 4 playlist.

[Ganzohnesushi 510]

Doesn't look good..... 19 videos (jd + sd) posted but after 7 Sandanme Bouts it is finished.

Hope Araibira is all well....

Ganzohnesushi

[Kuroyama 715]

Doesn't look good..... 19 videos (jd + sd) posted but after 7 Sandanme Bouts it is finished.

Hope Araibira is all well....

Patience, Grasshopper.