Kakuryu as Yokozuna

[bettega]

I'm wondering... is it good or not for sumo to have a third Yokozuna, Kakuryu (another mongolian!!)?

Would be better to have him as a good Ozeki?

Another question is: if Kakuryu gets his tsuna, what could happens to Ama Harumafuji? Forced retirement from injury? He never seemed to get much sympathy from Kyokai, and he's not a bad Yok from numbers, maybe a bad-luck-Yok (to have Hakuko as dai-Yokozuna).

Edited March 8, 2014 by bettega

[Senkoho]

why would they force HF to retire?

[bettega]

Reading the forum, seems that if HF is kyujo again, he will be in trouble.- just that,

[Tsubame]

Two consecutive kyujos are no reason to demand a "retirement wish" from Harumafuji. Yes, they will keep talking, and "complaining" about his performance. But two yokozunas are much better than only on (dai)yokozuna.

[shumitto]

With that kind of dodgy sumo showed today I'd rather he stayed at Ozeki.

[The_Arrow87]

I doubt Kakuryu will make it to Yokozuna.

[CT3*]

I actually think Kakuryu possesses the tools to get it done! But it certainly won't be easy.

I also think the last thing the Kyokai wants to see is 3 Mongolian yokozuna...

[Tsubame]

I think, that if Kakuryu manage get the Cup for Haru, he will be promoted. The two-consecutive-yusho-rule is such a strict rule (see the ludicrously tsuna-runs for the ozeki a cuple of years ago), that they will be glad, that they now have the chance to overcome that rule. That rule was more an obstacle than a guidance.

[CT3*]

Well the YDC has already stated that Kak needs 13 wins and the yusho. So I agree with you that if he does get the Cup, he'll become Yokozuna. Will he get the yusho? We'll see soon enough!

But I don't think the YDC will be glad to see Kakuryu succeed in his very first tsuna run; particularly after Kise has failed to do so in two runs over the course of the last year or so.

[Asashosakari]

On the upside, if it's a non-Japanese ozeki who first gets promoted without back-to-back yusho, that provides a lot of cover for future Japanese tsuna runs. And my impression is that Kakuryu is pretty well-regarded for having made a serious effort to fit in with his environment from the very start and never exhibiting any "foreign diva" traits throughout his time in Ozumo.

[CT3*]

On the upside, if it's a non-Japanese ozeki who first gets promoted without back-to-back yusho, that provides a lot of cover for future Japanese tsuna runs.

I completely agree!

[yorikiried by fate]

The thing about Kakuryu is, he already showed his true potential in his Ozeki run (which went a bit below the radar as it came directly after the somewhat farcical promotions of the Geek and the Kid). Before and after that, you could still always see his ever improving skill, sometimes even hints of brilliance. But all the time he seemed to lose a lot of bouts unnecessarily. Most often, when it was extremely convenient for his opponent. Also lots of politically adequate losses.

Either his wallet has grown considerably over the last few years, or he has collected enough "for the higher good" credentials to be now considered a legitimate Yokozuna by the establishment.

Oh, and skillwise he's up in the sky together with the two current grandmasters. The top Mongols are holding back as a habit.

Edited March 11, 2014 by yorikiried by fate

[Masumasumasu]

The thing about Kakuryu is, he already showed his true potential in his Ozeki run (which went a bit under the radar as it came directly after the somewhat farcical promotions of the Geek and the Kid). Before and after that, you could still always see his ever improving skill, sometimes even hints of brilliance. But all the time he seemed to lose a lot of bouts unnecessarily. Most often, when it was extremely convenient for his opponent. Also lots of politically adequate losses.

Either his wallet has grown considerably over the last few years, or he has collected enough "for the higher good" credentials to be now considered a legitimate Yokozuna by the establishment.

Oh, and skillwise he's up in the sky together with the two current grandmasters. The top Mongols are holding back as a habit.

Bull excrement. The lot of it.

[dingo]

The thing about Kakuryu is, he already showed his true potential in his Ozeki run (which went a bit under the radar as it came directly after the somewhat farcical promotions of the Geek and the Kid). Before and after that, you could still always see his ever improving skill, sometimes even hints of brilliance. But all the time he seemed to lose a lot of bouts unnecessarily. Most often, when it was extremely convenient for his opponent. Also lots of politically adequate losses.

Either his wallet has grown considerably over the last few years, or he has collected enough "for the higher good" credentials to be now considered a legitimate Yokozuna by the establishment.

Oh, and skillwise he's up in the sky together with the two current grandmasters. The top Mongols are holding back as a habit.

Bull excrement. The lot of it.

I have to concur with that. I mean really, you think that Hakuho is holding back? Or HF, that he's faking his injuries and could actually already have 10 or something yusho? Or Azumaryu who so far this basho has been decidedly unspectacular? Please.

[Vikanohara]

I already wrote it years ago, but here I do it again. Okinoumi is Ozeki material !

[Asashosakari]

I already wrote it years ago, but here I do it again. Okinoumi is Ozeki material !

I do believe I was the first to raise that possibility, back when he was about to make his makuuchi debut. :-) (Some further reasoning in another thread two months later.)

He's pretty much run out of time by now though. Would probably need untimely departures by at least Harumafuji and Kotoshogiku to move up enough in the pecking order to make it viable again.

(Speaking of which, one wonders what such exits would do for Kakuryu and Kisenosato's prospects, too.)

Edited March 12, 2014 by Asashosakari

[Vikanohara]

All credits to you, as my call came about a year later. (I am not worthy...) (Sign of approval...)

[krindel]

He's pretty much run out of time by now though. Would probably need untimely departures by at least Harumafuji and Kotoshogiku to move up enough in the pecking order to make it viable again.

And even then, I wouldn't bet on him any more. It seems to me that his problem for ever making ozeki is that he can't string together wins, no matter his position on the banzuke. Apart from a 9-win streak at M13 back when he was a fresh makuuchi. he has never stringed more than 6 wins together, and even that is a VERY rare occurrence (has happened only once). His usual pattern is win two or three, then lose one, and that's on his good bashos.

That is probably more about his mentality than about his actual sumo skills, and that takes a lot to change...

[LeGronk]

To be the top dog you not only have to win Yushos, but your sumo has to be top level as well. Kakuryu's sumo is not Yokozuna worthy, look at his statitics before the last basho. CRAP!
Already he has dropped a match, and he was even lucky to win his first match, come on - does anybody really think he could win the Yusho when we have two strong Yokozunas this basho?
(ps Yes Harumafuji is banged up, but i still think a banged up Harumafuji could wipe the floor with Kakuryu anyday, who is always back peddling and never going forward!)

Kakuryu is a "good" Ozeki, and that is being generous more like an OK ozeki, but Yokozuna - he is not in the same league as Hakuho and Harumafuji!

[Surabuyan]

Kakuryu can't do yokozuna. Even if he becomes one, he will be a dissappointment. He rarely gives his best, being afraid not to get injured. Unlike Harumafuji does. Ozeki is where he belongs. He will win a cup, sooner or later, but two back-to-back cups... very doubtful.

Both yokozuna have their own unique sumo that Kakuryu doesn't have. Back 7 years ago when Kotooshu won a cup, all started speaking about yokozuna, It was obvious that he couldn't do it. Even when Kyokutenho won, there was such speech. Kyokutenho is smart in sumo - if the opponent is too eager to win, just lets him win. That's why he will go on doing sumo till 50; he knows how to keep himself safe and healthy. This is far from yokozuna. Yokozuna requires domination more than one or two tournaments. Harumafuji had already won several tournaments. before becoming yokozuna. What dominance has Kakuryu shown? He won once against Hakuho. Yes, getting a win against Hakuho is really a big and rare thing, but occasionally can happen. Yokozuna can't happen occasionally.

Okinoumi - ozeki material... that was funny. The only ozeki thing he possesses, is his size. Compared to the current ozeki, even to the current sekiwake, he lacks a lot.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Surabuyan

[bettega]

Well, unless a disaster with a loss to Kotoshogiku with another loss in kettei-sen to Hak (well, if Hak wins Ama) we'll have our third Mongolian Yokozuna :)

[Tsubame]

Well, unless a disaster with a loss to Kotoshogiku with another loss in kettei-sen to Hak (well, if Hak wins Ama) we'll have our third fourth Mongolian Yokozuna :)

:-P

[bettega]

Third at the same time :-P

[Treblemaker]

I doubt Kakuryu will make it to Yokozuna.

To be the top dog you not only have to win Yushos, but your sumo has to be top level as well. Kakuryu's sumo is not Yokozuna worthy, look at his statitics before the last basho. CRAP!

Already he has dropped a match, and he was even lucky to win his first match, come on - does anybody really think he could win the Yusho when we have two strong Yokozunas this basho?

(ps Yes Harumafuji is banged up, but i still think a banged up Harumafuji could wipe the floor with Kakuryu anyday, who is always back peddling and never going forward!)

Kakuryu is a "good" Ozeki, and that is being generous more like an OK ozeki, but Yokozuna - he is not in the same league as Hakuho and Harumafuji!

Kakuryu can't do yokozuna. Even if he becomes one, he will be a dissappointment. He rarely gives his best, being afraid not to get injured. Unlike Harumafuji does. Ozeki is where he belongs. He will win a cup, sooner or later, but two back-to-back cups... very doubtful.

Both yokozuna have their own unique sumo that Kakuryu doesn't have. Back 7 years ago when Kotooshu won a cup, all started speaking about yokozuna, It was obvious that he couldn't do it. Even when Kyokutenho won, there was such speech. Kyokutenho is smart in sumo - if the opponent is too eager to win, just lets him win. That's why he will go on doing sumo till 50; he knows how to keep himself safe and healthy. This is far from yokozuna. Yokozuna requires domination more than one or two tournaments. Harumafuji had already won several tournaments. before becoming yokozuna. What dominance has Kakuryu shown? He won once against Hakuho. Yes, getting a win against Hakuho is really a big and rare thing, but occasionally can happen. Yokozuna can't happen occasionally.

Okinoumi - ozeki material... that was funny. The only ozeki thing he possesses, is his size. Compared to the current ozeki, even to the current sekiwake, he lacks a lot.

Yeah, well, here we are on the Eve of day 15, and I think Kakuryu has demonstrated his skills sufficiently to warrant enough attention for promotion. Even if he doesn't make to The Belt this basho, knocking off both Yokozunas and Kise, hey, I'd say that was a good few day's work.

Loved going back and reading the comments above. Yup, Kak is doing "crap" sumo. (Sarcasm is cool.)

[Fay]

I'm as happy as can be. Yusho for Kakuryu and next Yokozuna. I support him for 8 1/2 years now and never ever had any doubts that he would make it one day - and I think I was the only one in this forum and other ones.

And to all those who think he doesnt deserve it or he will be a mediocre Yokozuna, just wait and see.

And yippieh ... I'm in the Yusho picture :-).

Edited March 23, 2014 by Fay