Multiplication of Sekiwake

[Gurowake 4,088]

So right now there's a very real possibility that we end up with 5 (or 6!) Sekiwake for Haru 2015. I find it within the realm of reason that both kadoban Ozeki are demoted, and that part of the reason it might happen is a set of strong performances by the junior sanyaku; one or both of Tochiozan and Takaysu could pull off 11 wins (as Tochiozan did earlier this year), and maybe even a member of the joi could get 13 wins and warrant consideration although that's certainly way too optimistic. I doubt there will actually be more than 2 as I've done a few manual simulations based on my prediction model and Ozeki demotions and Sekiwake KKs are not overwhelmingly common enough to see the total be more than 2, but it at least is a possibility.

There actually has been a banzuke with 5 Sekiwake before. Back then they may have more liberally given away extra sanyaku slots, but I find only one promotion in the series that caused it to happen to be much of a stretch by current standards and I suspect would even happen now given the situation:

Kyushu 1971: Wajima goes 11-4 at M1. He obviously makes Komusubi, but the fact that he went 11-4 becomes important.

Hatsu 1972: Wajima goes 10-5 as Komusubi while two Sekiwake get KK. There's no spot, but even in today's world where a 10-5 standing alone at Komusubi might not get an extra Sekiwake slot, having done it after a 11-4 at M1 is another story since he's a very real candidate for Ozeki after the upcoming tournament. So there's 3 Sekiwake for Haru.

Haru: Wajima manages only a 9-6. An Ozeki is demoted, all Sekiwake get KK, so they go to 4 for Natsu.

Natsu: 3 of the 4 Sekiwake get KK, while two different Komusubi go 11-4 and are promoted, thus creating 5 Sekiwake for Nagoya.

So where did all those wins come from? Well, they didn't have Hakuho taking 14 and two other Yokozuna taking 10 each; the lone Yokozuna had only 3 wins against 6 losses before withdrawing. There were 3 Ozeki, but one withdrew for Day 3; the 3 combined for 20 wins. So that's 23 wins from the Yokozuna and Ozeki where we're used to seeing just as many from only the Yokozuna when there were only two of them. Distribute all those extra wins down to the rest of the joi, and it's not too hard.

There also were a few tournaments in 1961-2 where there were 8 junior sanyaku (4 each in each case), but that was caused by far more generous promotion standards, like 9-6 K -> S2 and 11-4 M5 -> K2.

[bettega 431]

I really like these inter-basho-times. There are fewer posts and people online, but very curious, interesting and/or insightful topics and discussions where (I think) we really learn sumo and his story.

Thanks!

[Tsubame 361]

Beside that "going back to the roots" with only two of each san'yaku rank, are there any other reasons why they more often promoted someone to an additional rank in the past than nowadays? Saving a little bit of money?

[Gurowake 4,088]

This thread says hi.

[Yamanashi 3,866]

1) Stuff like this keeps me humble (and nobody needs to be humble more than me).  When I start to think "I've been around this forum for almost six years", a real vet pulls this out.

2) I had a revelation that probably everyone else had this basho: they're loading up the Sekiwake rank to have an excuse for hustling someone up to Ozeki

[Seiyashi 4,098]

If only Takakeishō were kadoban, eh?

[Gurowake 4,088]

54 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

a real vet

What do you mean, I just started following Sumo.  Yeah, it was 9 years ago almost (Natsu 2014), but it feels like yesterday!

[Sakura 1,489]

1 hour ago, Gurowake said:

What do you mean, I just started following Sumo.  Yeah, it was 9 years ago almost (Natsu 2014), but it feels like yesterday!

@Yangnomazuma mentioned me in the KCC that I was a veteran sumo gamer and leader of the Sakura ichimon. I wouldn't consider myself a veteran and certainly not the leader.

[Chartorenji 237]

2 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

2) I had a revelation that probably everyone else had this basho: they're loading up the Sekiwake rank to have an excuse for hustling someone up to Ozeki

Kiribayama is the closest, right now needing 13 wins by the time May is over with any he can get now easing pressure for May. If he wins out it wouldn't be enough anyway at just 8-7 first basho. 

We will see where Hoshoryu is at. If all goes well he might be the emergency Ozeki that has to be hustled up. For a full Ozeki run though he probs needs to win out here and either go on a monster run in May or get double digits and go for it in July.

 

Wakatakakage is not in a good spot for a potential run. Dude always starts poorly before going on a run to get Kachi-Koshi. Unjtil he gets an early run (ala his Yusho tournament) he will probably not be close. 

 

Daieisho is at 20 wins now. I don't know how much they will consider as he started at M1, but he should be a Sekiwake right now. Kotonowaka and Wakamotoharu could be outsiders for a run, but we have to see. 

[Yamanashi 3,866]

2 hours ago, Sakura said:

@Yangnomazuma mentioned me in the KCC that I was a veteran sumo gamer and leader of the Sakura ichimon. I wouldn't consider myself a veteran and certainly not the leader.

I'm a little too old for this, but it's true what they say that "Everyone believes modern history began on their birthday.  Everything before that was ancient history."

[Reonito 1,470]

I brought this up in the promotion/demotion thread yesterday: 

 

 

[Akinomaki 40,622]

4 hours ago, Gurowake said:

What do you mean, I just started following Sumo.  Yeah, it was 9 years ago almost (Natsu 2014), but it feels like yesterday!

I joined only 2 years earlier (even some weeks less than that), our no.1 is a member almost twice as long - but he's one of the dai-veterans, those around 10 years are already veterans

[Koorifuu 1,003]

Like I said elsewhere, all those manual entries aren't going to be fun for GTB's admins.

[Yamanashi 3,866]

I like the title of this thread.

A murder of crows.

A coven of witches.

A mischief of mice.

A multiplication of Sekiwake.

A flock of seagulls.

[bettega 431]

An excessive of Sekiwake

[Yamanashi 3,866]

1 hour ago, bettega said:

An excessive of Sekiwake

Sorry, out of likes.  I will not disagree with you.

[Jomangor 29]

8 hours ago, bettega said:

An excessive of Sekiwake

A Splendour of Yokozuna
An Ambition of Ozeki
An Excessive of Sekiwaki
A Hopeful of Komusubi
A Number of Makunouchi

 

[Katooshu 3,251]

A dribble of jonidan ........

[Bunbukuchagama 732]

With Waka Prime out, full multiplication is averted, I guess. 

[Gurowake 4,088]

And with the results, there's only going to be at most 4 Sekiwake, so the GTB crisis is averted.

[Asashosakari 19,427]

Nevertheless, a quick side comment for people who are habitually inclined to call for tougher ozeki demotion and/or promotion rules: This would be happening a lot more often if you had your way.

[Benevolance 2,501]

No, if I had my way, Ozeki demoted due to injury would be placed into 6 meter tall exoskeletons and forced to fight on a dohyo made of frickin' lava. And the dohyo would be, like, 5 FEET ABOVE THE GROUND, so the "dohyo is too high" pundits would have heart attacks. 

[bettega 431]

59 minutes ago, Benevolance said:

No, if I had my way, Ozeki demoted due to injury would be placed into 6 meter tall exoskeletons and forced to fight on a dohyo made of frickin' lava. And the dohyo would be, like, 5 FEET ABOVE THE GROUND, so the "dohyo is too high" pundits would have heart attacks. 

I would watch that 

[Gurowake 4,088]

4 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Nevertheless, a quick side comment for people who are habitually inclined to call for tougher ozeki demotion and/or promotion rules: This would be happening a lot more often if you had your way.

But what's wrong with that?

[Yamanashi 3,866]

3 hours ago, Benevolance said:

No, if I had my way, Ozeki demoted due to injury would be placed into 6 meter tall exoskeletons and forced to fight on a dohyo made of frickin' lava. And the dohyo would be, like, 5 FEET ABOVE THE GROUND, so the "dohyo is too high" pundits would have heart attacks. 

So, I see the hay fever season has finally hit up in Vancouver ...