Endou situation

[Gurowake 4,053]

Btw, if someone wanted to start a totally outlandish conspiracy theory, they could ask how come all the Mongolians manage to stay healthy?

Azumaryu isn't in on it then. Ichinojo probably significantly shortened his career in their bout in Nagoya. As I see Azumaryu doing worse, I wonder if he's getting any support from his fellow Mongolian.

[krindel 671]

My impression was of ligament injury and I am surprised not to hear/read a word about it.

Left knee ligament injury is the official word.

Specifically, the Kyokai reported anterior cruciate ligament and lateral meniscus damage.

If he doesn't get surgery for that, maybe he should inquire if Baruto has need of help in the farm, cause it will never really heal on its own :-(

[Naganoyama 5,911]

Better to enquire of Tochinoshin what he should do.

[ALAKTORN 346]

I really feel like the quality of sumō gets ampered by all the “gambarizing” rikishi do. When I went to the gym a year ago, I inflamed (I guess, never figured out) my left knee really badly, and it took 2 months of doing almost nothing for the pain to go away. Not to mention the time it took to train my legs back in top shape… something as serious-sounding as that ACL injury should require a rikishi to stay away from sumō for a whole year in my opinion. Taking a 2 months break and then doing sumō again is just ridiculous. And it’s not only that, but also all the little injuries that just get taped up, the training regiment, I feel it’s all wrong. The kyōkai should let rikishi take their needed time off, and the whole mentality about training and gambarizing should be toned down a notch.

The only reason Hakuhō is so dominant is because he never gets injured.

I wasn’t sure where to post this but I wanted to say it.

[Asashosakari 19,331]

The only reason Hakuhō is so dominant is because he never gets injured.

I'm not convinced that's right. His elbows were in the news quite regularly for a while, and I have that nagging suspicion that Hakuho simply subscribes to the old-school "don't use tape, then nobody will know your weak spots" theory. He may be lucky that he's never had serious knee troubles (where it's difficult to avoid using support, if the ligaments simply aren't stable enough for competition without it), but I bet we'll hear some "interesting" injury stories about him once he's retired.

By the way, Sd95w Kirinoryu joins the basho after missing the first four bouts (the first one with a fusenpai).

Edited March 15, 2015 by Asashosakari

[Asameshimae 220]

I really feel like the quality of sumō gets ampered by all the “gambarizing” rikishi do. When I went to the gym a year ago, I inflamed (I guess, never figured out) my left knee really badly, and it took 2 months of doing almost nothing for the pain to go away. Not to mention the time it took to train my legs back in top shape… something as serious-sounding as that ACL injury should require a rikishi to stay away from sumō for a whole year in my opinion. Taking a 2 months break and then doing sumō again is just ridiculous. And it’s not only that, but also all the little injuries that just get taped up, the training regiment, I feel it’s all wrong. The kyōkai should let rikishi take their needed time off, and the whole mentality about training and gambarizing should be toned down a notch.The only reason Hakuhō is so dominant is because he never gets injured.I wasn’t sure where to post this but I wanted to say it.

I don't know how much keiko you have seen but the impression about the gambarizing over injury gets only stronger when you've seen your share. Of course a rikishi who can't even walk is different but rikishi with smaller injuries that are considered tolerable are often bullied if they show any reluctance to protect an injured area or hold back on their attack. "What? Are you going kyujo?!" they are loudly asked. And they are sometimes kept front and center even longer taking keiko punishment as penance for acting like wusses. I'm not saying it is pervasive but I've seen it enough. It course varies by heya as do most things.

[ALAKTORN 346]

@Asashosakari: All I know is that the one time I heard of Hakuhō being slightly injured, he went 10–5.

Of course that’s just an example, I wouldn’t expect him to be that bad even if he had recurring slight injuries. But I do 100% believe that being injury-free is what led to his absolute dominance and his 30+ yūshō count. We’ve also seen what a healthy Harumafuji can do, and if it weren’t for the injuries, I think he would yūshō and beat Hakuhō far more often than he currently is.

@Asameshimae: The only keiko I’ve seen was in videos, and while I’ve never seen the events you’re speaking of, I have no suspicion that what you’re saying isn’t true. Edit: I suck at English, what I was trying to say is that I believe you.

Edited March 15, 2015 by ALAKTORN

[Gurowake 4,053]

For some minor aches and pains, sometimes it really is just a matter of willpower in dealing with the situation. There are some people (like me) who don't like doing some things if it causes their body punishment, even if it's good for them in the long term. You need to push yourself in your workouts further and further in order to tell your body that you need more and more muscle available, and some people just don't want to. It's unfortunate that people with actual injuries that need rest in order to recover get treated as though they're just under-training, but it's really hard to tell if someone is actually hurt or not. I know in my time of playing high school sports that there were a few cases where some of our better players would get injured and not participate much in practice, and then be giving it their all in the game the next day. Did they just not feel like practicing? Or were they resting their injuries? As someone who was working hard in practice, I felt like it was much more of the former. From that standpoint, I can see how rikishi would always be encouraging those that have minor injuries to work through it, as if they don't train hard they won't improve their overall muscle mass.

Obviously when someone has an actual serious injury, they need to take time to recover, but without expensive tests you really can't say what goes on, and even then everyone's anatomy is slightly different. I heard a story about a baseball pitcher (RA Dickey), who was checked out by a team's doctor before they finalized his contract, and from their x-rays or whatever they discovered that he literally didn't have a certain ligament that would theoretically make it impossible for him to even throw, and they withdrew the big contract and offered him only the league minimum. Clearly his body had adapted to the lack of ligament in his childhood through other means (causing his arm to be held slightly differently which is what initially drew suspicion). The point is that the human body is incredibly resilient and capable of overcoming demands on it, and sometimes the real damage is all in the head. Something may hurt like crazy, but that doesn't mean that it won't work at full capacity and all you have to do is bear with the pain. Of course, it doesn't mean it necessarily will work at full power either, and figuring out which is the case is the really difficult part.

[ALAKTORN 346]

Something may hurt like crazy, but that doesn't mean that it won't work at full capacity and all you have to do is bear with the pain.

That’s the best mentality to kill yourself and having to retire. If it hurts, your body is telling you to rest, because it can’t handle any more excessive exertion. Also, pain and fatigue (the thing you feel when you’re building muscle mass) are very different feelings.

Edit: let me just add another thing… you might’ve heard what people said about Maradona, that he never attended practice. Staying healthy is far more important than practicing.

Edited March 16, 2015 by ALAKTORN

[Gurowake 4,053]

I fully understand that pain and fatigue feel differently. But my main point is that it's impossible to tell if someone doesn't want to practice because they're lazy or because they're seriously injured. For people like Maradona, I'm sure practice makes no difference. Those people are so naturally talented that they need very little practice. I would compare it to Takanohana taking all those tournaments off and then putting up 12 wins afterwards; no one but the best would be able to do something like that. But to the average player who's feeling minor aches and pains of no consequence, the lack of practice will seriously harm them. I'm not saying that everyone should be fighting through whatever injuries they face, but this entire discussion is about the reality behind the elimination of the kosho rule. If you can just tell people you're in pain and not have to practice or fight, you've got an easy way out; since pain is subjective, there's no way to know if it really is a serious issue or if they just don't feel like training or fighting. They need the encouragement to be able to work through low level issues that might cause them temporary discomfort, and to come back to training as soon as possible if they sustain a truly serious injury.

[Asameshimae 220]

I fully understand that pain and fatigue feel differently. But my main point is that it's impossible to tell if someone doesn't want to practice because they're lazy or because they're seriously injured. For people like Maradona, I'm sure practice makes no difference. Those people are so naturally talented that they need very little practice. I would compare it to Takanohana taking all those tournaments off and then putting up 12 wins afterwards; no one but the best would be able to do something like that. But to the average player who's feeling minor aches and pains of no consequence, the lack of practice will seriously harm them. I'm not saying that everyone should be fighting through whatever injuries they face, but this entire discussion is about the reality behind the elimination of the kosho rule. If you can just tell people you're in pain and not have to practice or fight, you've got an easy way out; since pain is subjective, there's no way to know if it really is a serious issue or if they just don't feel like training or fighting. They need the encouragement to be able to work through low level issues that might cause them temporary discomfort, and to come back to training as soon as possible if they sustain a truly serious injury.

This could very well be a good deal of the logic behind what I have seen.

[Kintamayama 45,137]

It looks like Endou may have to undergo surgery on the torn ligament on his left knee after all. Rupture of the anterior cruciate ligament is the current diagnosis. He is in hospital at present in Osaka and plans to return to Tokyo where he will undergo an endoscopy. At present the hope is to avoid surgery but the results of the endoscopy may cause this to change. If that happens, he will be out for quite a while. "He says that you can't change what happened..At present, he cannot move his knee. There is no set date for his leaving the hospital at this time, " said Oitekaze Oyakata.

[dingo 1,263]

I'm no medical expert, but from what I've usually read about these injuries it sounds like having surgery would definitely be a better option. Endo should learn from Tochinoshin, rising back to Makuuchi would be no problem at all, provided he heals completely.

[Naganoyama 5,911]

Endo-scopy eh?

[kuroimori 1,634]

Endo-scopy eh?

I had the same thought and rememberd the word play when he entered the scene.

Maybe a shikona change would have prevented that?

At least this joke wouldn't have any punchline any longer.

[kuroimori 1,634]

I guess they wanted to maintain the already well known "Endo" brand with all the merchandise and all the -sorry!- endorsements...

[Gurowake 4,053]

I don't know how much this is a reflection of the relative following of association football and sumo among English speakers, but the footballer is prominently the top result in a Google search for "Endo japan", and Endo Shota is nowhere to be found on the front page of results. There must also be a company that makes kitchen products as well, and maybe a golfer too, that go by the name judging from the suggested search items. Now, he's clearly the top result if you search for "Endo sumo", but at least from Google's perspective he is far from the most searched-for person in Japan (by Americans at least) with his fairly common name. I'm surprised that Google doesn't remember all the rikishi I've searched for in the past and connect any search of Japan with sumo first; it perhaps just goes to show how little the general sumo following is compared to size of the country.

But maybe the point of keeping the common name is so that people will be reminded of the rikishi when they hear the name for other products/people?

[kuroimori 1,634]

I don't know how much this is a reflection of the relative following of association football and sumo among English speakers, but the footballer is prominently the top result in a Google search for "Endo japan", and Endo Shota is nowhere to be found on the front page of results. There must also be a company that makes kitchen products as well, and maybe a golfer too, that go by the name judging from the suggested search items. Now, he's clearly the top result if you search for "Endo sumo", but at least from Google's perspective he is far from the most searched-for person in Japan (by Americans at least) with his fairly common name. I'm surprised that Google doesn't remember all the rikishi I've searched for in the past and connect any search of Japan with sumo first; it perhaps just goes to show how little the general sumo following is compared to size of the country.

But maybe the point of keeping the common name is so that people will be reminded of the rikishi when they hear the name for other products/people?

Well, if you just search 遠藤 the top results all are related to Sumo (mostly news headlines about him going kyujo)

[Asameshimae 220]

I think the point for keeping the common name is the commonality itself. People just love that Endo, such a common sounding named guy is up there with the likes of guys with these prestigious, magnificent sounding ring names. I doubt a lot of Japanese people even realize most rikishi keep their family names as their shikona for some time if not their entire career if they never rise higher. There was Hasegawa quite a while back, who had a very common surname as his shikona and refused to change it. Not sure what the average Japanese thought of him though.

[alaninjapan 18]

If it is a bad ACL injury, that puts footballers (soccer) out for 6-9 months at best. For a top level sumo guy with the stresses and the weight, give it a year or cripple yourself for life.

[Kintamayama 45,137]

Now it looks like Endou may not undergo that Endou-scopy after all. "If the pain subsides, we may not go for it (surgery, examination)," said Oitekaze Oyakata.

[Kishinoyama 595]

"If the pain subsides, we may not go for it (surgery, examination)," said Oitekaze Oyakata.

Easy for him to say since it is not his knee.....

Well, it looks like he may be headed down Baruto's path. :-(

[botev1921 33]

These people are ridiculous! If the pain subsides??? ACL tear, even partial is always repaired surgically for people who want to deal with any sport. I had a partial tear and without surgery it took me 6 months to fully recover and jog without pain, never mind do anything else. Surgery = 6-12 months rest; No surgery = lingering pain for 6 months and at some point, complete tear unless you stay away from sports!

[I am the Yokozuna 193]

Welcome to the Japanese working environment. You have a pneumonia and 39 temperature, no biggie! Put on a face (surgical) mask and you should be soldering on your desk. Never mind a potential spread of the disease in the tightly seated Japanese office and lack of manners (people coughing/yawning without putting hand in fornt of their mouths). Otherwise, your absence would inconvenience your colleagues putting unforgivable burden on their workload. Instead of an opening the Word file for 30 minutes, they would have to do that in 20. Instead of doing that basic Excel table for 7 hours, they would have to do it in 6.

Imagine, what pressure there might be in the world of where all should demonstrate power/stamina and etc like Demi-gods.

[luispereira 383]

im trying to look at fusens of rikishis that got injured after fighting with shohozan (is there a filter for that in the db?) because if i remember correctly, he got some of them injured in recent bashos... fierce shohozan:s , be aware!:)