Trivia bits

[Octofuji 356]

On 20/09/2024 at 19:57, Reonito said:

He will also extend his own record of 4 consecutive sansho since debut, and tie the overall record of 5 in a row.

I missed that he'd got a special prize last time. Presumably for beating the Yokozuna since he only got a 9-6. Although I had thought that was just for kinboshi, not for sanyaku.

Edited September 24, 2024 by Octofuji

[Asashosakari 19,282]

6-1 records in jonidan in Aki basho:

Rikishi	1    >
	Date	Rank	Record
Senshoho	2024.09	Jd16w	6-1
Hokuyozan	2024.09	Jd30e	6-1
Enho	2024.09	Jd31w	6-1
Imamura	2024.09	Jd40w	6-1
Anryukai	2024.09	Jd53e	6-1
Kyokutairyu	2024.09	Jd67w	6-1
Ginseizan	2024.09	Jd69e	6-1

 

As a promotion to sandanme is essentially guaranteed for any rikishi who scores 6 wins at Jd70 and higher, the next banzuke will only be the second one in the 7-bout era (since Nagoya 1960) that doesn't have any jonidan 6-1's being left in the division: Query

For completeness: It could have already happened after Haru 2022, but that was when they cut 10 ranks from the sandanme division and shifted everybody down accordingly, which resulted in Seigo going Jd58e 6-1 -> Jd1w instead of getting a promotion to sandanme.

Edited September 24, 2024 by Asashosakari

[lackmaker 437]

Which sport has more statistics obsessives Sumo or Cricket? Any answers should be backed up by data analysis.

[I am the Yokozuna 193]

Baseball

[Jakusotsu 5,953]

If I didn't miss someone by manually browsing the DB, Aonishiki is the first foreigner going the long way to Juryo with less than five career losses.

[Faustonowaka 123]

7 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

If I didn't miss someone by manually browsing the DB, Aonishiki is the first foreigner going the long way to Juryo with less than five career losses.

Hokusheiho was born in Mongolia and reached Juryo with 3 losses

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,267]

1 hour ago, Faustonowaka said:

Hokusheiho was born in Mongolia and reached Juryo with 3 losses

His shusshin was Japanese though.

[Gurowake 4,046]

Myogiryu and Aoiyama were born the same year, had the same hatsu dohyo basho (though Myogiryu was a MsTD and Aoiyama in Mz) and notably it was NOT Haru basho, made Makuuchi the same basho, both had at least ten wins their first Makuuchi basho (though Myogiryu and Shohozan that basho were the last ones to get ten wins on their debut and not get a sansho), and retired the same basho ending their career with their highest rank having been Sekiwake.  They ended up with the same number of Makuuchi basho as well as the same number of Juryo basho, though they weren't entirely the same ones.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=11786

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=11784

The rikishi in between them in rikishi IDs is Chiyoshoma.

Edited October 11, 2024 by Gurowake

[Asashosakari 19,282]

Natsu 2021 is the only tournament in the 15-bout era in which zero juryo-ranked rikishi were on a new career-high rank. Kyushu 1980 follows as the only basho with just one career-high rikishi, all others had at least two. (Full list)

[Reonito 1,445]

The last wrestler to win three top-division yusho in a row was Hakuho in 2014-2015, as part of his run of six from May 2014 through March 2015.

[Asashosakari 19,282]

Juryo rikishi who handed three different makushita opponents their makekoshi in a single basho (lower divisions 7-bout era since 1960.07):
 

Basho	Day	Rikishi 1				Kimarite		Rikishi 2
		Rank	Shikona	Result				Rank	Shikona	Result
1979.05	12	J11e	Kokuni#	5-7 (7-8)		yoritaoshi		Ms6e	Chikubayama	3-4
1979.05	13	J11e	Kokuni#	6-7 (7-8)		shitatenage		Ms2w	Takabayama	3-4
1979.05	15	J11e	Kokuni#	7-8		yorikiri		Ms3w	Sadanoumi	3-4

 

Basho	Day	Rikishi 1				Kimarite		Rikishi 2
		Rank	Shikona	Result				Rank	Shikona	Result
1984.05	9	J13e	Fujinosato	1-8 (4-11)		sukuinage		Ms6e	Suiseizan	1-4 (2-5)
1984.05	10	J13e	Fujinosato	2-8 (4-11)		isamiashi		Ms3e	Hakuryu	2-4 (3-4)
1984.05	11	J13e	Fujinosato	3-8 (4-11)		yoritaoshi		Ms7e	Futasekaze	2-4 (3-4)

 

Basho	Day	Rikishi 1				Kimarite		Rikishi 2
		Rank	Shikona	Result				Rank	Shikona	Result
1986.11	11	J13e	Kaneshiro	6-5 (8-7)		yorikiri		Ms1w	Hananowaka	2-4 (3-4)
1986.11	13	J13e	Kaneshiro	7-6 (8-7)		sotogake		Ms3w	Takanohama	3-4
1986.11	14	J13e	Kaneshiro	8-6 (8-7)		tsukiotoshi		Ms5e	Yamazaki	3-4

 

Basho	Day	Rikishi 1				Kimarite		Rikishi 2
		Rank	Shikona	Result				Rank	Shikona	Result
1993.07	11	J12e	Rikio	4-7 (6-9)		oshidashi		Ms1w	Asahiyutaka	2-4 (3-4)
1993.07	12	J12e	Rikio	5-7 (6-9)		shitatenage		Ms3e	Wakatosho	3-4
1993.07	14	J12e	Rikio	6-8 (6-9)		yorikiri		Ms5w	Genkai	3-4

2 MK provided by the same juryo rikishi has been rare but not especially so, with 42 instances, although the most recent one was back in Kyushu 2018 - likely caused in part by the generally lower amount of matches between juryo and makushita rikishi in recent years. 25 of them involved each makushita rikishi's final bout, i.e. both of them were 3-4 after losing to their common juryo opponent. (In the above four instances only Kokuni produced all 3-4's, so he's clearly the most trivia-ish case.)

Recent cases:

Basho	Day	Rikishi 1				Kimarite		Rikishi 2
		Rank	Shikona	Result				Rank	Shikona	Result
2012.11	12	J13e	Akiseyama	5-7 (8-7)		yoritaoshi		Ms4e	Chiyoo	3-4
2012.11	13	J13e	Akiseyama	6-7 (8-7)		oshitaoshi		Ms1e	Masuraumi	3-4

 

Basho	Day	Rikishi 1				Kimarite		Rikishi 2
		Rank	Shikona	Result				Rank	Shikona	Result
2013.03	10	J14e	Hochiyama	3-7 (5-10)		hikiotoshi		Ms2w	Chiyomaru	2-4 (3-4)
2013.03	11	J14e	Hochiyama	4-7 (5-10)		yorikiri		Ms2e	Arawashi	2-4 (3-4)

 

Basho	Day	Rikishi 1				Kimarite		Rikishi 2
		Rank	Shikona	Result				Rank	Shikona	Result
2013.09	12	J14w	Kitaharima	5-7 (7-8)		oshidashi		Ms1w	Sakigake	3-4
2013.09	13	J14w	Kitaharima	6-7 (7-8)		oshidashi		Ms3w	Kairyu	3-4

 

Basho	Day	Rikishi 1				Kimarite		Rikishi 2
		Rank	Shikona	Result				Rank	Shikona	Result
2016.07	13	J12w	Kitataiki	5-8 (6-9)		yoritaoshi		Ms1w	Sakigake	3-4
2016.07	15	J12w	Kitataiki	6-9		yorikiri		Ms2w	Akiseyama	3-4

 

Basho	Day	Rikishi 1				Kimarite		Rikishi 2
		Rank	Shikona	Result				Rank	Shikona	Result
2017.01	14	J13e	Terutsuyoshi	6-8 (7-8)		hikiotoshi		Ms3w	Tochimaru	3-4
2017.01	15	J13e	Terutsuyoshi	7-8		yorikiri		Ms5e	Shiba	3-4

 

Basho	Day	Rikishi 1				Kimarite		Rikishi 2
		Rank	Shikona	Result				Rank	Shikona	Result
2018.07	10	J12w	Chiyonoumi	6-4 (8-7)		tsukidashi		Ms3e	Ichiyamamoto	2-4 (3-4)
2018.07	14	J12w	Chiyonoumi	8-6 (8-7)		tsukiotoshi		Ms3w	Kiribayama	3-4

 

Basho	Day	Rikishi 1				Kimarite		Rikishi 2
		Rank	Shikona	Result				Rank	Shikona	Result
2018.11	8	J12w	Jokoryu	3-5 (7-8)		uwatenage		Ms3e	Tamaki	1-4 (2-6)
2018.11	12	J12w	Jokoryu	5-7 (7-8)		hikiotoshi		Ms2w	Irodori	3-4

Prior to Kyushu 2012 there was another big gap, with the next earlier two-bout case having occurred in Hatsu 2007.

[sahaven111 176]

I'm not sure this is worthy of being posted here. But so far, both times a nephew of Asashoryu has joined, a relative of a different Yokozuna has as well.

Hoshoryu/Oho (Taiho's Grandson), and now the new nephew with Musashimaru's nephew.

[Faustonowaka 123]

All rikishi currently at Ozeki/Yokozuna had impressive kachi-koshi streaks to achieve their rank:
- Hoshoryu: Maegashira 6 -> Ozeki: 10 straight kachi-koshi (currently at 17)
- Kotozakura: Maegashira 14 -> Ozeki: 13 straight kachi-koshi (currently at 17)
- Onosato: Makushita 10 -> Ozeki: 9 straight kachi-koshi (and counting)
- Terunofuji: Jonidan 48 -> Yokozuna: 12 straight kachi-koshi (streak stopped at 15 in fourth tournament as Yokozuna)

Musashimaru had 20 straight kachi-koshi to achieve Ozeki and 52 (!!) to achieve Yokozuna

Edited November 5, 2024 by Faustonowaka

[Yamanashi 3,836]

12 hours ago, Faustonowaka said:

Musashimaru had 20 straight kachi-koshi to achieve Ozeki and 52 (!!) to achieve Yokozuna

The stats on Musashimaru always stun me.  Only one MK (2-5 at Ms11) before his next one in his fourth basho as Yokozuna (2-2-11 kyujo in January 2000).  Also, day 3 of that tournament was the first missed bout in his career.

[Kamitsuumi 398]

According to ja wiki, the top consecutive kachikoshi records are:
1. Musashimaru 55 (6 non-makuuchi)
2. Hakuho 51
3. Kitanoumi 50
4. Wakanohana II 28
4. Asahifuji 28

[Gurowake 4,046]

17 hours ago, Kamitsuumi said:

According to ja wiki, the top consecutive kachikoshi records are:
1. Musashimaru 55 (6 non-makuuchi)
2. Hakuho 51
3. Kitanoumi 50
4. Wakanohana II 28
4. Asahifuji 28

The rest are all Makuuchi then?

[Asashosakari 19,282]

By chance, I spotted something seemingly unusual in the Nagoya 2024 results:

That made me wonder how often that has happened - each sansho awarded exactly once, and for one of the rikishi it's his first prize of that type, for another his 2nd, and for the last his 3rd.

Turns out it was fairly common in the early days, mostly because the number of tournaments with each sansho getting awarded exactly once used to be very high. Overall that has happened 220 times in the 435 honbasho of the sansho era (since 1947.11), but the vast majority of those were in the distant past:

1947-1959: 47 times (in 48 tournaments)
1960s: 50 times (in 60 tournaments per decade from here unless noted)
1970s: 46 times
1980s: 33 times
1990s: 17 times
2000s: 12 times
2010s: 9 times (in 59)
2020s: 6 times (in 28)

Anyway, triple sansho going 1st/2nd/3rd to their recipients had its first occurrence in 1957.03 and then happened regularly until 1972.09, for a total of 24 times (including three cases where one rikishi took up two different sansho spots). Afterwards, it became very rare:

Basho    Shukun-sho         Kanto-sho         Gino-sho
1979.09  Tamanofuji (1st)   Asashio (2nd)     Masuiyama (3rd)
1983.05  Hokutenyu (2nd)    Dewanohana (3rd)  Hokutenyu (1st)     double winner
1983.09  Ozutsu (2nd)       Fujizakura (3rd)  Tochitsurugi (1st)
1986.09  Konishiki (2nd)    Terao (1st)       Sakahoko (3rd)
2003.05  Kyokushuzan (1st)  Kyokutenho (3rd)  Aminishiki (2nd)
2022.01  Abi (1st)          Kotonowaka (2nd)  Mitakeumi (3rd)
2024.07  Onosato (2nd)      Takanosho (3rd)   Hiradoumi (1st)

It did also happen a few times in other varieties of three sansho getting awarded, i.e. one type with multiple recipients, another not given out at all. This list is complete back to 1947, not merely post-1972:

Basho    Shukun-sho         Kanto-sho         Gino-sho
1993.09  -                  Kushimaumi (2nd)  Mainoumi (3rd)
  ,,                                          Tomonohana (1st)
2002.05  -                  Asashoryu (3rd)   Kyokushuzan (2nd)
  ,,                        Hokutoriki (1st)
2012.07  -                  Kaisei (2nd)      Myogiryu (3rd)
  ,,                        Masunoyama (1st)
2021.11  -                  Abi (3rd)         Ura (1st)
  ,,                        Takanosho (2nd)

There has never been a basho with four sansho going 1st/2nd/3rd/4th, although twice it was only prevented by "excess" sansho getting awarded: 1990.03 had five winners 1st/1st/2nd/3rd/4th, 2005.11 again five who were 1st/2nd/2nd/3rd/4th for their respective prizes.

Edited November 8, 2024 by Asashosakari

[Oskanohana 260]

I just noticed a funny stat about Churanoumi. He has an all-time juryo losing record (and reasonably substantial, I might add, more than one extra loss per basho) but a makuuchi winning one (and reasonably substantial as well, more than one extra win per basho).

In Makuuchi	53-43/96 (7 basho)
As Maegashira	53-43/96 (7 basho)
In Juryo	159-185-1/343 (23 basho)

I suppose this might correct itself given enough time and enough clashes in the jo'i for him, but it'd be funny if his career score ended up this way. Is there any way to make a query in the database to see if this has happened in the past?

[Gurowake 4,046]

26 minutes ago, Oskanohana said:

I just noticed a funny stat about Churanoumi. He has an all-time juryo losing record (and reasonably substantial, I might add, more than one extra loss per basho) but a makuuchi winning one (and reasonably substantial as well, more than one extra win per basho).

In Makuuchi	53-43/96 (7 basho)
As Maegashira	53-43/96 (7 basho)
In Juryo	159-185-1/343 (23 basho)

I suppose this might correct itself given enough time and enough clashes in the jo'i for him, but it'd be funny if his career score ended up this way. Is there any way to make a query in the database to see if this has happened in the past?

 

It's not that hard to have a losing record in Juryo when you've been demoted multiple times from that division but only promoted to Makuuchi once.  The real stars are those with losing records during a single stint in Juryo and yet manage to get promoted.  If you look through this thread you should find more info on that.

Edited November 15, 2024 by Gurowake

[Oskanohana 260]

3 hours ago, Gurowake said:

 

It's not that hard to have a losing record in Juryo when you've been demoted multiple times from that division but only promoted to Makuuchi once.  The real stars are those with losing records during a single stint in Juryo and yet manage to get promoted.  If you look through this thread you should find more info on that.

Yeah, I know about those ones, the infamous 30-45 stints in juryo that end in promotions and the sort. The difficult thing that is being achieved by Churanoumi is not only having been a punching bag in lower juryo for some time but to convert that into a positive maegashira career. By the way, Churanoumi's record in juryo is 11 KK, 11 MK and a 7-7-1 record (that would be a makekoshi), yet his W-L records is absolutely dreadful for those numbers. Freaking Tamawashi, with his 2 yushos has a makuuchi losing record (obviously because he's been a regular jo'i punching bag for most of his career). This is why I feel Churanoumi is kinda entering uncharted territory.

I have had sort of an epiphany. Maybe I can do some work with these lists of rikishi, as they give you the makuuchi W-L records and the career ones. Maybe I can scan for potential candidates in there, but it'll require some excel tinkering and some double checks.

Quick edit for not doubleposting:

The list of career-high maegashira with a winning record in makuuchi is unbelievably small (I'm not gonna consider records from before WWII). I have to still account for komusubis, sekiwakes, ozekis and yokozunas, but let me give you a small sample size.

List of career-high maegashira with makuuchi career winning records:

Shikona	Hatsu dohyo	Maegashira debut	Intai basho	Makuuchi
Onokatsu	2023.09 (Ms)	2024.09		2 (13-8/21)
Oshoma	2021.09 (Ms)	2024.05		4 (28-23/51), 1K
Takerufuji	2022.09	2024.03		3 (17-4-15/21), 1Y-1G-1S-1K
Churanoumi	2016.03	2023.11		7 (53-43/96)
Hakuoho	2023.01 (Ms)	2023.07		2 (11-4-15/15), 1G-1K
Gonoyama	2021.03 (Sd)	2023.07		9 (64-62/126), 1K
Hokuseiho	2020.03	2023.03	2024.03	6 (41-40-9/80)
Atamifuji	2020.11	2022.11		9 (65-61/126), 2K
Osunaarashi	2012.01	2013.11	2018.03	17 (112-100-43/207), 3Kin
Tokusegawa	2003.07	2010.03	2011.05	6 (48-42/90)
Chiyohakuho	1999.03	2008.07	2011.05	6 (41-39-10/79)
Wakanoho	2005.03	2007.11	2008.07	5 (39-36/75)
Rikio	1988.03	1996.07	1997.09	8 (54-51-15/105)
Ryukozan	1983.03	1990.01	1990.03	2 (9-6-15/15)
Konuma	1971.07	1976.03	1978.11	2 (10-9-11/18)
Sakahoko	1958.07	1963.05	1963.11	4 (24-21-15/45), 1K
Hirakagawa	1941.01	1956.01	1959.09	7 (44-41-20/84)
Toyonobori	1947.06	1954.03	1954.09	3 (21-19-5/39)
Futagoiwa	1940.01	1945.11	1946.11	2 (7-3-13/10)
Toyonishiki	1938.01	1944.05	1945.11	2 (6-4/10)
Mutsunosato	1938.05 (Ms)	1941.01	1948.10	13 (72-70-26/142)
Matsunosato	1926.01	1939.05	1945.06	13 (85-81-11/163), 1Kin

Lots of sudden departures in there, unsurprisingly.

A big caveat is that some of those guys have losing records for banzuke purposes, as kyujo bouts counts as losses except for kosho times and the covid crap. Chiyohakuho has a juryo losing record but his makuuchi-winning record would be a losing one for banzuke purposes, as his kyujo "losses" add up to give him a MU losing record, so he's not quite achieving the Churanoumi condition. I'll try to find out more, but that's for another day.

Edited November 16, 2024 by Oskanohana

[Jakusotsu 5,953]

Rules question: Is the gyoji allowed to call a hairpull?

[Akinomaki 40,348]

1 hour ago, Jakusotsu said:

Rules question: Is the gyoji allowed to call a hairpull?

Not really, hansoku are a shimpan decision. The inevitable sashi-chigae for his gyoji record is likely one that doesn't count as error. Nobody can forbid him though to point to the one who has his hair pulled - counting on the shimpan to decide on hansoku later. He just can't stop the bout, by calling shobu ari.

Edited November 20, 2024 by Akinomaki

[Seiyashi 4,075]

1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

Not really, hansoku are a shimpan decision. The inevitable sashi-chigae for his gyoji record is likely one that doesn't count as error. Nobody can forbid him though to point to the one who has his hair pulled - counting on the shimpan to decide on hansoku later. He just can't stop the bout, by calling shobu ari.

Has there ever been a gyoji who called an apparent loser as a winner based on hansoku and was vindicated? 

Edited November 20, 2024 by Seiyashi

[TheGunbaiHolder 26]

I just found this rikishi (Wakaarata Koji) who has been in Maezumo twice: https://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=12478. Did he retired and came back?

I found other two cases:

• https://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=12741
• https://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=12761

These last two were, technically, in Maezumo only once, as they entered as Banzuke-gai in March 2022 due to Covid, I guess.

[Yamanashi 3,836]

1 hour ago, TheGunbaiHolder said:

I just found this rikishi (Wakaarata Koji) who has been in Maezumo twice: https://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=12478. Did he retired and came back?

I found other two cases:

• https://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=12741
• https://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=12761

These last two were, technically, in Maezumo only once, as they entered as Banzuke-gai in March 2022 due to Covid, I guess.

The real pros will perhaps see this and comment, but my understanding is that after going banzuke-gai (slipping completely off the banzuke), a rikishi must go back through Maezumo: not to check that they know how to bow, etc., but to see if they are really physically OK to return to action.