Basho Talk - Nagoya 2015 +++ Spoiler alert! +++

[Kotogouryuu 131]

Benevolance, on 23 Jul 2015 - 22:07, said:

As a rebuttal, I'd point out Ikioi, who is often downright polite at the tawara, to the point that his opponent manages to sneak back into the match and win. That finishing instinct, to not let up on your opponent even when victory seems certain, is part of what separates the sanyaku guys from the meat grinders.

Isn't that the reason the dohyo is raised off the ground? So that you'll have time to prepare for the landing? The match isn't over until you know the opponent is defeated. The only way to know he's defeated is to either see it yourself, or hear the gyoji announce it. After either one of those, there is still the reaction time. I'd like to see the people who criticize the "extra push" actually try a physical contact sport. You'd be surprised how much you can get done before you realize it's over.

That being said, Hakuho slapped Ichinojo on purpose. And I'd disagree with Kintamayama; Ichinojo's coma wasn't the result of the slap, it was the cause.

[Kintamayama 45,285]

That being said, Hakuho slapped Ichinojo on purpose. And I'd disagree with Kintamayama; Ichinojo's coma wasn't the result of the slap, it was the cause.

Perhaps a bit of both. Pre slap Ichinojou- 3-5. Apres slap Ichinojou: 0-3. Not counting the bout itself. I wouldn't be surprised if he finishes 4-11.

[Katooshu 3,260]

Predictions for Kakuryu-Kisenosato? Kak in good form but he really struggles in those head to heads.

And Ichinojo.......oh my. It looks like he's hardly trying at times and I don't imagine that things will get much better against Terunofuji.

[luispereira 383]

people...let's imagine this scenario...hakuho loses tomorow, the zabuton will be flying right? and if kakuryu also loses next?! there aren't going to be zabutons left to throw:s :P ...(I secretly want goeido and kise to win..)

Edited July 23, 2015 by luispereira7cv

[kuroimori 1,634]

A shikona change is needed:

New shikona: Tochokezan

Now guess the current shikona...

I'd prefer Chokiozan.

Okay, but that could be confused with Shohozan (or lately rather No-show-zan)

[Adil 232]

As a rebuttal, I'd point out Ikioi, who is often downright polite at the tawara, to the point that his opponent manages to sneak back into the match and win. That finishing instinct, to not let up on your opponent even when victory seems certain, is part of what separates the sanyaku guys from the meat grinders.

If Ikioi REALLY does that (I'm not sure; I certainly haven't had that feeling), that's idiotic; you can't let up when your opponent is still in the match. I was talking about extreme cases when it is unreasonable: Pushing like a crazy train even after you are 100% sure that you have won the match, something which I said Kotooshu may have been guilty of based on my hazy (and possibly warped) memories of only the last few years of his career. Let's talk about a crude example from today. Let's say Dewahayate kept pushing after Wakanosato stepped out and they both crash landed. That would have been extreme. On the other hand, the Osunaarashi/Chiyotairyu crash landing yesterday seemed OK to me because it went with the flow and it was impossible for Chiyotairyu to stop by the time his victory was 100% in the bag. Let's not polarize the 'restraint at the tawara' issue. The pendulum doesn't have to swing from one extreme to the other:

Extreme A: Keep pushing even after the victory is in the bag until you crash-land on top of your opponent off the dohyo.

Extreme B: Push your opponent to the tawara, then stop and only try to gently nudge him over the straw so that you don't hurt him.

That having been said, I'm fully cognizant that there will be times when guys will fly off the dohyo. It comes with the territory.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Adil

[Asashosakari 19,451]

If Ikioi REALLY does that (I'm not sure; I certainly haven't had that feeling), that's idiotic; you can't let up when your opponent is still in the match. I was talking about extreme cases when it is unreasonable: Pushing like a crazy train even after you are 100% sure that you have won the match, something which I said Kotooshu may have been guilty of based on my hazy (and possibly warped) memories of only the last few years of his career.

I'm just guessing, but I think Osh's comparatively low weight meant he always had to put a lot more "momentum" into his pushing/driving-forward attacks, and he was a close-contact fighter (unlike pure pushers who usually try to push from a distance), so the likelihood of him and his opponent flying off into the third row together was somewhat higher than for guys with a more compact build. Or in short, F = m * a, and he didn't have much m. :-)

[Shikona 161]

Still to come for Goeido: Hakuho, Kisenosato, and a megashira. I'm feeling the nine-win breakthrough. (But I realize he was 8-5 last basho, hurt, and had to miss the last two matches.)

Edit: Oops, forgot Kakuryu. Oh well, maybe in September...

Edited July 23, 2015 by Shikona

[Asojima 2,874]

I view some of this as a keiko mentality. In keiko, the rikishi fight aggressively until one achieves a clear advantage or "win". They both then relax to avoid injury or look forward to the next match. Some have a problem switching from a keiko mindset to a honbasho attitude. They have a habit of not "finishing off" the match. I had always viewed this as the reason for Asasekiryu's prolonged occupancy of mid-maegashira.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Asojima

[Seijakuzan 59]

Toyohibiki vs himself! Haha.

As for Kotooshu's crash landings...I've been meaning to bring this up for some time but just never got around to it. I joined the fray very late and only saw the last couple of years of his career, but even in those few years, I sometimes felt this about Kotooshu: He was very reckless when it came to pushing people off the dohyo. Like, when he's got all the momentum in pushing a guy out, he didn't put the brakes on at the tawara like guys usually do: He would just keep pushing like mad until both guys crashed out. Maybe it was just his fighting style, or because he had a grudge against some guys because he had to settle a score. Or it could simply be a case of my memories getting warped because of only one or two matches.

I honestly think it was just because he was so tall, and was a straight grappler. He had nowhere to go but right over the top of someone when trying to launch them out, and often ended up in those upside-down, both-rikishi-trying-to-uwatenage situations. When you're almost 7 feet tall, just about any landing is going to be awkward, especially when tangled up with someone else. Kotooshu was/is pretty universally loved, so I doubt there was any hostility behind any of it.

[808morgan 812]

I think that the heat (and humidity) in Nagoya is getting to Ichinojo.

I think so too, thats how I feel in Japan when it's like that!

[Asojima 2,874]

Sugishita may have a new rival. Takeuchi has an interesting tachiai technique. Turn and run out of the ring in an attempt to avoid all contact with your aite.

[Jakusotsu 5,987]

Turn and run out of the ring in an attempt to avoid all contact with your aite.

Asanowaka would be proud. (Laughing...)

[luispereira 383]

in part 2 of day 12 here , after the bouts they show the 53 consecutive wins of Chiyonofuji in 1988, very nice:>

[krindel 671]

I wonder if they will start charging Ikioi a ticket next time he is in the M1-4 region. After losing to already MK Toyohibiki, he looks pretty determined to repeat his 1-14 from the last time he was there.

Funny part is he actually looked better as a Komusubi. Its really frustrating, because he does look like a guy who should be making some more noise in the jo'i... No idea if it's injuries, a bad mentality or just me having a too optimistic appraisal of his skills, but I would hope to see him do better soon.

[luispereira 383]

took a sip of my coffee and missed the hakuho bout...

[sesom 55]

After all the embarrassing performances in the last 12 days Ichinojo at least tried his best against Terunofuji.

[CT3* 331]

Do the Japanese fans think they are somehow helping Goeido by chanting his name before he faces Hakuho? LOL! It only seemed to fire Hakuho up.

All it got for Goeido was a sharp slap across the face before being quickly ushered off the doyho.

[I am the Yokozuna 193]

Pretty compelling tournament so far. Great sumo by people I did not expect to perform - Oosuna, Kakuryu, Endo. Quite happy for Amuuru and his progress since the double operation. Terunofuji is looking like really destined for greatness. My memories for Nagoya were about so many slips in previous years, nothing memorable so far. Hopefully, Kisenosato would spice up the senshuraku by winning tomorrow.

[Jakusotsu 5,987]

Since it wasn't mentioned in Kintamayama's video: in the NHK feed it looked like Kotoyuki crash-landed on the camera of a photographer, leaving him with a severe nosebleed (if not broken nasal bone).

[Kintamayama 45,285]

Since it wasn't mentioned in Kintamayama's video: in the NHK feed it looked like Kotoyuki crash-landed on the camera of a photographer, leaving him with a severe nosebleed (if not broken nasal bone).

I thought he fell on the shinpan.

[808morgan 812]

Do the Japanese fans think they are somehow helping Goeido by chanting his name before he faces Hakuho? LOL! It only seemed to fire Hakuho up.

All it got for Goeido was a sharp slap across the face before being quickly ushered off the doyho.

Pretty much!

[808morgan 812]

Toyonoshima!!! I love him.

Hey Kotoyuki, whats that over there?

Huh?

Push

[Highway 46]

Hakuho sole leader again - but he'll do well to win both his final bouts. Should be interesting.

Important clash tomorrow as well in Aoiyama - Myogiryu.....san'yaku on the line. But Aoiyama doesn't do well vs smaller quicker opponents, so I don't know...

[Yubinhaad 11,723]

Sotenryu's often injury-interrupted career came to an end today with a fine 6-1 kachi-koshi, winning his last bout by isamiashi as the shimpan spotted that Tsukimoto stepped out first and overturned the gyoji's original decision. Recently Sotenryu had been suffering from detached retinas and cataracts, so he's taken the wise decision to retire in order to protect his eyesight. In the immediate future he'll be helping out on his family's farm while looking for a job of his own.

Received a bouquet of flowers in the hanamichi following his final bout.