Homarenishiki's prospects (split from Videos thread)

[torquato 1,075]

He (still) looks so stiff in his movements... I doubt he will make it into the top ranks, even though winning curently... Dunno... A guy like Osuna looked much more agile and promising at this stage... Mmhhh...

Edited November 19, 2015 by torquato

[Ryoshishokunin 323]

Two responses to that: 1. Homarenishiki hasn't had any training in the last four months due to surgery.
2. He's way bigger than Osuna: about 9cm (3-1/2 inches). Brodik is a big lad.

[Katooshu 3,333]

Brodi still has a lot of work to do, but I think he's performing well so far, especially if it's true that he's hardly had any keiko due to an injury. One thing I notice however is that he often stands too straight at times (this may be part of the stiffness torquato mentioned), which he's largely getting away with now but will be a greater problem as he moves up and faces opponents who are better able to close the distance, physically stronger, and better on the belt than his opposition now; I can see more losses along the lines of his defeat to Kurosawa last basho. I also notice that sometimes he charges forward too far on the tachiai when he goes to start thrusting, resulting in him smothering himself and allowing shorter opponents to get closer than optimal.

Now he may not have the potential of someone like Oosunaarashi, but I think Oosu is going to eventually be a regular sanyaku rikisihi and he's a tough standard to match. I've enjoyed following Brodi (an article about him in my local paper is what got me into sumo) and am curious to see where he ends up. I suspect that he at least makes it to makushita and I'm hoping that as he gains more experience he acquires the skills to progress even further.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Kotooshu's Revenge

[Jakusotsu 6,049]

Of course I don't challenge your expertise, but judging by the video clips from afar, all I see in Homarenishiki is just a clumsy Masutoo. He doesn't seem comfortable on the dohyo at all, and if that's not part of your natural ability, it's hard to come by later. However, he's very welcome to prove me wrong.

[Asashosakari 19,655]

Of course I don't challenge your expertise, but judging by the video clips from afar, all I see in Homarenishiki is just a clumsy Masutoo. He doesn't seem comfortable on the dohyo at all, and if that's not part of your natural ability, it's hard to come by later. However, he's very welcome to prove me wrong.

I must admit I'm more or less in the same camp. Size and athletic ability for sure, but I just don't see the aptitude part, at least not in the sense of an innate understanding of "what to do as a rikishi", if that makes any sense. I'm a bit reminded of baseball prospects who are described as "toolsy". To excel at sports always means putting together something that's greater than the sum of its parts, and all too many of those guys who have the raw tools at their disposal never manage to refine them into a complete package.

In sumo terms, Kagayaki keeps coming up in my head as a comparison. Much hyped with claims that he has everything it takes and that he could be up in juryo within two years, but his sumo turned out to be clumsy and unintuitive when faced with opponents who know what they're doing, and he ended up taking almost five years instead. Now, five years to juryo for a diamond in the rough is still very good, but of course the difference is that Kagayaki turned pro at 15 and Homarenishiki at 20...

[Asashosakari 19,655]

Well considering he's actually probably had less than 20 full keiko sessions in his life I think reaching sandanme in four basho with a 16-5 record ain't too shabby.

Well, Asayamabana hadn't done any sumo at all before joining this year and went 17-4. (For that matter, Kagayaki started 18-3.) It really doesn't take much more than a decent physique and some type of athletic background to slice through jonokuchi and jonidan these days. I'm happy to defer to you on the amount of improvements he has made since joining, but the win-loss results to this point are fairly irrelevant IMHO.

[Katooshu 3,333]

Now he may not have the potential of someone like Oosunaarashi

Funny the way you say that like it's actually true.

It's not.

Brodi's "potential" is as high as you get. Best combination of size / athletic ability / aptitude I've seen enter the sport in a long time.

Osunaarashi was far more advanced when he joined in both body development / sumo ability. Boody is a special case. An absolute diamond. I'd never ever doubt him and the way he overcomes obstacle after obstacle means he might indeed go all the way. But he is close to maxing out everything and has been for a while. He has serious long term injuries that won't heal to deal with and he'll be facing Hakuho / Terunofuji et al in his quest to go higher over the next year or two.

Brodi isn't even close to maxing out. With all the natural tools he has, if he puts it together the way Boody has his oyakata's request that he become yokozuna and win at least five yusho will look very conservative.

I didn't say it like it was true---which is why I used 'may'. If I were sure of its truth I'd just say "He doesn't have the potential of someone like Oosunaarashi".

I'm hoping for Brodi to do well and will be glad if he ends up realizing the great potential you're describing.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Kotooshu's Revenge

[Jyuunomori 226]

Brody is basically everything that I kind of wished to be, tall and great innate potential for Sumo. His lack of training due to injury was only reason why he was asleep on the first day of this basho.

Man it would've been fun to become a professional rikishi. If I had acted few years earlier...though I am too short to be accepted as a foreigner I am afraid.

In year or two I can see him being in upper makuuchi banzuke, if he keeps injury free that is.

[hamcornheinz 839]

Injury is very real if he doesn't get some solid shiko and keiko in.... against real competition, just look at how even in Makuuchi people's legs often buckle from the force of their opponents.

[hamcornheinz 839]

Or do you mean potential for both of them starting now? That would be even stranger as Brodi has already been a sekitori for a couple of years and I think most people here would be of the opinion ozekihood may be beyond him given his injury history, sumo style and slate of current and likely future opponents over the next five years. I don't but I'm obviously biased / better informed (take your pick).

pretty sure you mean Boodi.

[Katooshu 3,333]

I didn't say it like it was true---which is why I used 'may'.

That's just a conceit.

"may not be....but" is commonly used for emphasis, in cases where there is no doubt about the fact itself.

For example: Harumafuji may not be the biggest rikishi but he is the feistiest. You think anyone reading that believes that there is a possibility Harumafuji is the biggest rikishi?

No, though cute that you think you know what I meant better than I do. If I was sure that Oosunaarashi had more potential I'd say it like I suggested in my previous post and I don't see why I'd try to be evasive about what I intended. I understand that 'may not be' can be used in the manner you described, but it can also be used simply to express that that something may not be the case without certitude being attached to it; this is the meaning I intended because at this stage I don't feel like I've seen enough to say that Oosu definitely had more potential.

I don't see why you're getting so nit-picky about this point anyway.

[Katooshu 3,333]

Regardless, you also say Brodi's entry in the sport (nine months ago) was what started your interest in sumo so I wonder where you even came up with the notion that Osunaarashi had more potential four years ago.

Or do you mean potential for both of them starting now? That would be even stranger as Brodi has already been a sekitori for a couple of years and I think most people here would be of the opinion ozekihood may be beyond him given his injury history, sumo style and slate of current and likely future opponents over the next five years. I don't but I'm obviously biased / better informed (take your pick).

Touchy touchy!

I didn't come up with the notion that Oosunaarashi had more potential four years ago; I wasn't the person who brought the comparison up in the first place and as I've repeated I didn't state that it was a fact that Oosu had more potential; you're attaching the wrong meaning to my comment. I think that Brodi probably has more room for improvement at this point, though I still think that Oosu can get better.

[Landmine950 44]

For what it's worth. Potential wise... Brodi is a BIG dude. At 15 he was 367 lbs while playing hockey and football and lacrosse full time and hockey academy and weight lifting. At 16 years old he bench pressed 505 lbs and ran a 5.35 40 yard dash!. He trained for Sumo in his back yard and managed to win the US Open so he must have some natural ability to learn. He wears size 17 or 18 EEEEE shoes. He is way lighter now than in the past and looks so skinny in his shoulders and face. He was about 350 when he came to Japan and had planned to be at about 400 by now. He has the potential to gain a lot of his muscle and mass back and even get to the 500+ pound bodyweight mark like Akebono or Mush but with more arm and chest power. Most men simply can't carry that weight and be mobile. That with more training and luck would make him hard to beat even at the top level IMHO. I certainly hope that a career in Juryo and above are legitimate and realistic goals for him in the future.

[hamcornheinz 839]

The cool thing about the sumo system is that it mines every last bit of potential out of you, I just hope he doesn't get injured.... especially if they are gonna get him doing Akebono-style sumo, and being so tall, hes gonna have to strengthen his legs and shoulders a great deal to avoid injury.

[Kuroyama 715]

For what it's worth. Potential wise... Brodi is a BIG dude. At 15 he was 367 lbs while playing hockey and football and lacrosse full time and hockey academy and weight lifting. At 16 years old he bench pressed 505 lbs and ran a 5.35 40 yard dash!. He trained for Sumo in his back yard and managed to win the US Open so he must have some natural ability to learn. He wears size 17 or 18 EEEEE shoes. He is way lighter now than in the past and looks so skinny in his shoulders and face. He was about 350 when he came to Japan and had planned to be at about 400 by now. He has the potential to gain a lot of his muscle and mass back and even get to the 500+ pound bodyweight mark like Akebono or Mush but with more arm and chest power. Most men simply can't carry that weight and be mobile. That with more training and luck would make him hard to beat even at the top level IMHO. I certainly hope that a career in Juryo and above are legitimate and realistic goals for him in the future.

But by the same token, his size makes him very vulnerable to injuries. Human joints just aren't designed to handle this kind of weight and the kind of force he's capable of delivering. It will be all too easy for him to wreck his knees, unless he's very, very fortunate.

I agree that otherwise, his potential is spectacular.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Kuroyama

[808morgan 814]

This is right before I went to chat with him for a bit. He is big, he needs to fill out, if he could bulk up like Tochinoshin and Sand Storm it would help, he said he wanted to go to the gym but he was not allowed to at that point. He hasn't been training and he has a lot to learn but anything can happen. Did I think Shohozan or Yoshikaze would improve so much recently... I did not. He does seem stiff right now but I did notice he was a bit more relaxed than before, he could really improve a lot now that he can train again. He also had to get used to going to Japan for the first time, I talked to him about that. I know how stressful it was for me to go to work there, I showed up at the airport and a guy picked me up, took me a couple months to even relax a bit. So we shall see, ganbate!

Edited November 24, 2015 by 808morgan

[Dwale 419]

I'm no expert (as I'm sure is obvious), but as long as he's willing to work hard, listen to his instructors and learn from his mistakes (and why wouldn't he be?), I feel comfortable with the expectation he'll go far.

Maybe not yokozuna far; I wouldn't say that about anyone before they've proven their mettle in makuuchi. But, that's just me.

[hamcornheinz 839]

This is right before I went to chat with him for a bit. He is big, he needs to fill out, if he could bulk up like Tochinoshin and Sand Storm it would help, he said he wanted to go to the gym but he was not allowed to at that point. He hasn't been training and he has a lot to learn but anything can happen. Did I think Shohozan or Yoshikaze would improve so much recently... I did not. He does seem stiff right now but I did notice he was a bit more relaxed than before, he could really improve a lot now that he can train again. He also had to get used to going to Japan for the first time, I talked to him about that. I know how stressful it was for me to go to work there, I showed up at the airport and a guy picked me up, took me a couple months to even relax a bit. So we shall see, ganbate!

Since both me and Kuroyama have talked about injuries perhaps sandstorm and tochinoshin aren't the best examples.... lol. Power sumo just doesn't last, even Chiyonofuji had to learn to have a wider pallete to avoid injury.

[d_golem 213]

To guys experiencing sumo firsthand in Japan, what do you guys think of the hype/expectations surrounding Brodik right now? Are the general sumo public expecting big things from him? How well-known is he to the fans considering his rank (gonna be Sandanme next year, right?)?

[WAKATAKE 2,671]

From what broadcasts I have been able to watch on NHK while I've been here, and since he has been in sumo, they have said nada about him. If he gets into the yusho race for makushita next basho, he'll probably start getting noticed. In the meantime though, he is just going to have to work his way up.

[kuroimori 1,634]

From what broadcasts I have been able to watch on NHK while I've been here, and since he has been in sumo, they have said nada about him. If he gets into the yusho race for makushita next basho, he'll probably start getting noticed. In the meantime though, he is just going to have to work his way up.

First things first - he should focus on the Sandanme Yusho race next basho.

If he should win that, he'll have a short prime time appearance on Senshuraku when the yusho awards are handed over on the dohyo.

Maybe then he gets a brief mention by the NHK guys.

[hamcornheinz 839]

From what broadcasts I have been able to watch on NHK while I've been here, and since he has been in sumo, they have said nada about him. If he gets into the yusho race for makushita next basho, he'll probably start getting noticed. In the meantime though, he is just going to have to work his way up.

indeed-first sandanme wrestler to win the Makushita race

[WAKATAKE 2,671]

Whoops got my divisions mixed up, silly me :-P

[Gernobono 467]

homarenishiki is not on my radar yet, but i have watched some vids here..... from them his nick (at least for me) is "karloff".....his tachiai reminds me of boris karloff in the early frankenstein-movies.....getting up....hands shoulderhigh and wiggling towards the opponent....

Edited November 26, 2015 by Gernobono

[d_golem 213]

Hopefully he's add more Bela Lugosi and less Karloff :-D