Sumozumo 240 Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) This is: The Wall How many kachikochi can a rikishi string together after they enter the sport, before they hit The Wall? It takes two KK to get on the wall - how far can your guy go? Hatsu Basho Mid Term Test 2016 Shikona Age Country Heya Debut KK Current Rank Yushos Record Win% Last Basho This Basho Shodai24TokitsukazeNatsu 201410 Makuuchi 12 West372-220.766 13-2 Y 4-4 Mitakeumi22DewanoumiHaru 20155 Makuuchi 10 West146-210.697 8-7 3-5 Iwasaki23OitekazeHaru 20155 Makushita 24 East032-70.821 5-2 3-1 Omoto22IrumagawaHaru 20156 Makushita 56 West030-90.769 4-3 4-0 Ura23KiseNatsu 20154 Makushita 8 Westt129-30.906 7-0 D 3-1 Daiki23HakkakuNatsu 20155 Makushita 16 East229-30.906 5-2 4-0 Hirotsukasa22IrumagawaNatsu 20154 Sandanme 30 East024-7-10.774 6-1 3-1 Inoue16KiseNatsu 20154 Sandanme 67 West022-100.688 5-2 3-1 Toshinofuji18IsegahamaNatsu 20154 Jonidan 4 East017-150.531 4-3 1-3 Chiyonoumi22KokonoeNagoya 20154 Sadanme 9 East222-30.880 4-3 4-0 Kiribayama19MichinokuNagoya 20153 Makushita 59 West120-50.800 7-0 Y 2-2 Homarenishiki20NishikidoNagoya 20153 Sandanme 46 West018-70.720 6-1 2-2 Tsukimoto23IsenoumiNagoya 20153 Sandanme 63 East018-70.720 6-1 2-2 Mitsuuchi19OnomatsuAki 20152 Sandanme 75 East015-30.833 6-1 3-1 Shodai had an excellent start for his first basho in Makuuchi but it seems like his slow motion tachi ai is getting taken advantage of now. Mitakeumi now has the flu that's been going around and the outlook is dim for another KK. Omoto has his first 4-0 start since he was at the bottom of Sandanme Ura lost to Tochimaru where he tried to pull and with his low stance it was quickly taken advantage of, and sees the slim chance of Juryo promotion evaporate for now. Daiki has started 4-0 but hasn't faced anyone above Ms15, and that Ms15 was first timer Sakamoto. He will face Tochihiryu tomorrow when all the 4-0 Makushita square off. Inoue is still doing well. His style is kind of crazy but not like Ura. He comes out like a brawler and grapples his opponents neck while threatening leg throws. For instance: in 22 wins, he has yet to do so by yorikiri. Yet he flies under the radar. Toshinofuji has only one win by fusen and looks to be at the end. Chiyonoumi seems to be over whatever was bothering him last basho and is back in form. Edited January 30, 2016 by Sumozumo 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Irakusamaru 77 Posted January 18, 2016 Wow, Inoue's style really is interesting. He also looks pretty relaxed coming up to tachi-ai, especially for a 16 year old! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sumozumo 240 Posted January 18, 2016 Just to cut it off at the pass - I think it would be really difficult to bring that style to sekitori-hood since sekitori are so so so good at grabbing the belt right at the first contact at tachi-ai. But its still exciting especially since he is so young. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Irakusamaru 77 Posted January 18, 2016 Yeah, I realise that, but its still interesting to watch someone think about what they're doing. Like watching Shodai figuring out how to work out how to counter-throw against the tawara this basho, or someone like Ishiura figure out how to deal with being a bit smaller than everyone else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gurowake 4,107 Posted January 19, 2016 Does anyone know any background on Inoue? He's doing pretty well for someone who came in from middle school with no apparent press. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akinomaki 40,790 Posted January 19, 2016 Kise-beya's facebook tells Inoue only did judo before entering the heya. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Irakusamaru 77 Posted January 20, 2016 I could only find a brief blurb and a cheery photo from his school's website: http://kyugaku.ed.jp/dousou/2015/06/post-290.html I went back to the New Recruits for Haru 2015, but it was all Ura-Mania and Brodi... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sumozumo 240 Posted January 28, 2016 Hatsu Basho Final Table 2016 Shikona Age Country Heya Debut KK Current Rank Yushos Record Win% Last Basho This Basho Shodai24TokitsukazeNatsu 201411 Makuuchi 12 West378-230.772 13-2 Y 10-5 K Mitakeumi22DewanoumiHaru 20155 Makuuchi 10 West148-24-20.676 8-7 5-8-2 Iwasaki23OitekazeHaru 20156 Makushita 24 East033-90.767 5-2 4-3 Omoto22IrumagawaHaru 20156 Makushita 56 West031-30.738 4-3 5-2 Ura23KiseNatsu 20155 Makushita 8 Westt132-30.914 7-0 D 6-1 D Daiki23HakkakuNatsu 20155 Makushita 16 East230-50.857 5-2 5-2 Hirotsukasa22IrumagawaNatsu 20154 Sandanme 30 East026-8-10.765 6-1 5-2 Inoue16KiseNatsu 20155 Sandanme 67 West024-110.686 5-2 5-2 Toshinofuji18IsegahamaNatsu 20154 Jonidan 4 East019-160.543 4-3 3-4 Chiyonoumi22KokonoeNagoya 20154 Sadanme 9 East325-30.893 4-3 7-0 Y Kiribayama19MichinokuNagoya 20153 Makushita 59 West121-70.750 7-0 Y 3-4 Homarenishiki20NishikidoNagoya 20153 Sandanme 46 West019-90.679 6-1 3-4 Tsukimoto23IsenoumiNagoya 20153 Sandanme 63 East019-90.679 6-1 3-4 Mitsuuchi19OnomatsuAki 20153 Sandanme 75 East018-30.857 6-1 6-1 Shodai continues his impressive streak with a fantastic debut in Makuuchi with a 10-5 record. When Onosho recorded his 11th straight KK he was still in Makushita. Mitakeumi came down with the flu, and was probably affecting him before going kyujo. He'll still be a Maegashira though. Iwasaki got beaten by Daiki at some point but held on to the KK. It won't be good enough to see him into the 7-0 promotion area though. Omoto continues climbing... Ura's extended record this basho is 8-2, I guess, losing in the final playoff. After an uncomprehensive database search, I believe he is the fastest rikishi to attain 3 playoff losses. He beat rival Daiki this basho and will most likely face some Juryo opponents next time. Daiki lost to Ura in what ended up being the play in to the play offs. He'll be within a shout of makushita joi. Chiyonoumi returns to form and will also land in the automatic 7-0 promotion zone, so we'll have 3 rikishi there next time. The other Nagoya 2015 debutants weren't as lucky and all narrowly missed four wins. Kiribayama, Homarenishiki, and Tsukimoto are all eliminated and leave us without any foreign rikishi. Himekatsuyama will be added next time (but I doubt he'll stay long) and on watch is Kotokamatani, Yokoe, Nakashima, and Sakamoto (TD). 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sumozumo 240 Posted April 9, 2016 Haru 2016 Initial Table Shikona Age Country Heya Debut KK Current Rank Yushos Record Win% Last Basho This Basho Shodai24TokitsukazeNatsu 201411 Makuuchi 6 West378-230.772 10-5 K 0-0 Iwasaki23OitekazeHaru 20156 Makushita 19 West033-90.767 4-3 0-0 Omoto22IrumagawaHaru 20156 Makushita 41 West031-30.738 5-2 0-0 Ura23KiseNatsu 20155 Makushita 2 West132-30.914 6-1 D 0-0 Daiki23HakkakuNatsu 20155 Makushita 8 West230-50.857 5-2 0-0 Hirotsukasa22IrumagawaNatsu 20154 Sandanme 5 West026-8-10.765 5-2 0-0 Inoue16KiseNatsu 20155 Sandanme 37 West024-110.686 5-2 0-0 Chiyonoumi22KokonoeNagoya 20154 Makushita 13 East325-30.893 7-0 Y 0-0 Mitsuuchi19OnomatsuAki 20153 Sandanme 18 East018-30.857 6-1 0-0 Catching up... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sumozumo 240 Posted April 12, 2016 Haru 2016 Final Slams Shikona Age Country Heya Debut KK Current Rank Yushos Record Win% Last Basho This Basho Shodai24[/td]TokitsukazeNatsu 201412 Makuuchi 6 West387-290.750 10-5 K 9-6 Iwasaki23OitekazeHaru 20157 Makushita 19 West037-120.755 4-3 4-3 Omoto22IrumagawaHaru 20156 Makushita 41 West034-150.694 5-2 3-4 Ura23KiseNatsu 20156 Makushita 2 West138-40.905 6-1 D 6-1 Daiki23HakkakuNatsu 20156 Makushita 8 West235-70.833 5-2 5-2 Hirotsukasa22IrumagawaNatsu 20155Sandanme 5 West030-11-10.732 5-2 4-3 Inoue16KiseNatsu 20155 Sandanme 37 West025-170.595 5-2 1-6 Chiyonoumi22KokonoeNagoya 20154 Makushita 13 East325-3-70.893 7-0 Y kyujo Mitsuuchi19OnomatsuAki 20153 Sandanme 18 East021-70.750 6-1 3-4 Sakamoto23OitekazeHatsu 20162 Makushita 11 West08-60.857 4-3 4-3 Kotokamatani18SadogatakeHatsu 20162 Jonidan 10 East113-10.857 7-0 Y 6-1 Yokoe19MusashigawaHatsu 20162 Jonidan 37 West011-30.857 6-1 5-2 Nakashima17[td]MusashigawaHatsu 20162 Jonidan 66 East010-40.857 5-2 5-2 Four come off the wall and four go on the wall. Shodai got a comfortable 9 wins and will be up in joi next basho, M1 something probably. He'll be right up next to our last Wall-joi rikishi, Ichinojo. Iwasaki is still troopin' in Makushita but he's finding the competition about level with him now. Omoto hit the wall, getting his makekochi from the enormous Akinoyama. Ura of course continued his own sumo to a 6-1 and will be in Juryo next basho. So we'll be back to two sekitori. He lost only to eventual makushita yusho winner Sato who will join him. It'll be fun to see him fight established sekitori, like all of the rikishi from kokonoe beya for example. Daiki missed out on the sekitori boat, losing to both Ura and Sato. He's 1-3 with Ura now as they've climbed the banzuke basically together. Hopefully we can see all 3 in makuuchi! Inoue really kind of showed the platonic ideal of hitting the wall, his 'age' finally catching up to him. Chiyonoumi took the basho off after elbow surgery, he'll surely be back. Mitsuuchi seemed to have trouble after losing to Sakae, but didn't seem to be hurt. Up on deck next time are the two TD Sandanme rikishi Ishibashi and Oyanagi, and then Ichiki, Kaizen, Uchida, Asatamaki, Izumigawa, and Wayama. PS: I removed all of the flags because I seemed to hit an image per page limit inherent to the bb software, even though most of them link to the same (tiny) image. Whoops. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sumozumo 240 Posted May 11, 2016 Natsu 2016 Start Shikona Age Country Heya Debut KK Current Rank Yushos Record Win% Last Basho This Basho Shodai24[/td]TokitsukazeNatsu 201412 Makuuchi 2 East387-290.750 9-6 0-0 Iwasaki23OitekazeHaru 20157 Makushita 13 West037-120.755 4-3 0-0 Ura23KiseNatsu 20156 Juryo 13 West138-40.905 6-1 0-0 Daiki23HakkakuNatsu 20156 Makushita 1 West235-70.833 5-2 0-0 Hirotsukasa22IrumagawaNatsu 20155Makushita 58 East030-11-10.732 4-3 0-0 Sakamoto23OitekazeHatsu 20162 Makushita 9 East08-60.857 4-3 0-0 Kotokamatani18SadogatakeHatsu 20162 Sandanme 49 East113-10.857 6-1 0-0 Yokoe19MusashigawaHatsu 20162 Sandanme 100 East011-30.857 5-2 0-0 Nakashima17[td]MusashigawaHatsu 20162 Jonidan 23 West010-40.857 5-2 0-0 Follow along real time from this basho (thanks DB!): Concise Records Bout by Bout with video links when available 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sumozumo 240 Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) Natsu 2016 Final Shikona Age Country Heya Debut KK Current Rank Yushos Record Win% Last Basho This Basho Shodai24[/td]TokitsukazeNatsu 201412 Makuuchi 2 East393-380.710 9-6 6-9 Iwasaki23OitekazeHaru 20158 Makushita 13 West041-150.732 4-3 4-3 Ura23KiseNatsu 20157 Juryo 13 West148-90.842 6-1 10-5 Daiki23HakkakuNatsu 20157 Makushita 1 West239-100.796 5-2 4-3 Hirotsukasa22IrumagawaNatsu 20155Makushita 58 East030-12-70.714 4-3 0-1-6 Sakamoto23OitekazeHatsu 20163 Makushita 9 East012-90.571 4-3 4-3 Kotokamatani18SadogatakeHatsu 20163 Sandanme 49 East118-30.857 6-1 5-2 Yokoe19MusashigawaHatsu 20162 Sandanme 100 East014-70.666 5-2 3-4 Nakashima17MusashigawaHatsu 20163 Jonidan 23 West015-60.714 5-2 5-2 Oyanagi22TokitsukazeHaru 20162 Makushita 58 West214-01.000 7-0 Y 7-0 Y Ishibashi22TakasagoHaru 20162 Sandanme 66 East011-30.786 5-2 6-1 Tamaki22TakasagoHaru 20162 Jonidan 10 West214-01.000 7-0 Y 7-0 Y Ichiki22TamanoiHaru 20162 Jonidan 33 East012-20.857 6-1 6-1 Kaizen22AsakayamaHaru 20162 Jonidan 33 West011-30.786 6-1 5-2 Uchida19SakaigawaHaru 20162 Jonidan 71 East08-60.571 4-3 4-3 Izumigawa19MinezakiHaru 20162 Jonidan 72 East09-50.643 4-3 5-2 Wayama19[td]MusashigawaHaru 20162 Jonidan 72 West010-40.714 4-3 6-1 What a basho! Shodai picked up his first makekochi ever but still did well in the joi. He took down Ikioi, Okinoumi, and an ailing Terunofuji, but looked completely lost against the Yokozuna. I never get to write about these guys! Ura easily dispatched the weaker guys in Juryo but had a lot of trouble against Makuuchi veterans and so on. Next basho will tell a lot. Daiki juuuust follows Ura into Juryo which is getting pretty packed with young talent. Hirotsukasa was injured in his first bout with Oyanagi (who was added) and was limping off the dohyou All of the guys who could have been added got added because they all scored KK. We also have, for the first time, two undefeated rikishi on the list thanks to a tsukedashi start for Oyanagi. By the way Oyanagi looks really scary, he is tall and weighs a lot but does not look so fat. He will absolutely become a sekitori sooner rather than later. Edited May 26, 2016 by Sumozumo 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gurowake 4,107 Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) All of the guys who could have been added got added because they all scored KK. We also have, for the first time, two undefeated rikishi on the list thanks to a tsuridashi start for Oyanagi. By the way Oyanagi looks really scary, he is tall and weighs a lot but does not look so fat. He will absolutely become a sekitori sooner rather than later. Emphasis added. Tsuridashi is a kimarite - "lift out". Tsukedashi means, using the same meaning for "dashi", "out of the list" or simply "not listed". Tsuke is the second component of "banzuke" (="rank list"), which is why in some transliterations you'll see "banduke" because while in pronunciation a voiced "tsu" sounds basically like a voiced "su", it's derived from 't' + 'u' and thus voiced is 'd' + 'u'. Apologies for over-correction if it's just a silly typo. I should add that I have no actual idea whether "yokozuna" or "banzuke" are actually pronounced closer to "yokodzuna" or "bandzuke" as would be suspected from their etymology. That is, it would make sense if a voiced "tsu" sounded like "dzu" and not just "zu", but I suspect that the choice of transliteration is done because there is no real different between a voiced "tsu" and voiced "su". Edited May 24, 2016 by Gurowake 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sumozumo 240 Posted May 26, 2016 Yes, I mean tsukedashi! My bad. Yokozuna is definitely pronounced with a zu. In some regions it might be a tzu in some regions in Japan, but maybe rare. I do not think it is ever pronounced dzu in the way english speaking people would pronounce it. Like in the other thread -oo- and -ou- is basically the same every where except in some regions. The guy who made that thread, I hope he never goes to kansai otherwise he will have a heart attack. Despite being so small Japan has a few very distinct dialects. It was more of a mess before the 1900s and pronounce was standardized by the government. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sumozumo 240 Posted July 10, 2016 Nagoya Pre-Basho Ritual 2016 Shikona Age Country Heya Debut KK Current Rank Yushos Record Win% Last Basho This Basho Iwasaki23[/td]OitekazeHaru 20158 Makushita 10 West041-150.732 4-3 0-0 Ura23KiseNatsu 20157 Juryo 8 West148-90.842 10-5 0-0 Daiki23HakkakuNatsu 20157 Juryo 13 West239-100.796 4-3 0-0 Sakamoto23OitekazeHatsu 20163 Makushita 6 East012-90.571 4-3 0-0 Kotokamatani18SadogatakeHatsu 20163 Sandanme 24 West118-30.857 5-2 0-0 Nakashima17MusashigawaHatsu 20163 Sandanme 88 West015-60.714 5-2 0-0 Oyanagi22TokitsukazeHaru 20162 Makushita 7 West214-01.000 7-0 Y 0-0 Ishibashi22TakasagoHaru 20162 Sandanme 11 West011-30.786 6-1 0-0 Tamaki22TakasagoHaru 20162 Sandanme 19 East214-01.000 7-0 Y 0-0 Ichiki22TamanoiHaru 20162 Sandanme 69 East012-20.857 6-1 0-0 Kaizen22AsakayamaHaru 20162 Sandanme 96 West011-30.786 5-2 0-0 Wayama19MusashigawaHaru 20162 Jonidan 2 East010-40.714 6-1 0-0 Izumigawa19MinezakiHaru 20162 Jonidan 26 West09-50.643 5-2 0-0 Uchida19[td]SakaigawaHaru 20162 Jonidan 41 West08-60.571 4-3 0-0 Link for DB overview (definitely spoilers) Link to bout by bout detail, videos when available (absolutely spoilers) Ura ended up with a fairly weak promotion, not unheard of but the last time someone only climbed 5 ranks from J13 on a ten win basho was 12 occurrences ago in 2005. He is joined by Daiki in sekitorihood. It has been pretty fun to follow both of them up the banzuke, hopefully they both make it to makuuchi even if it isn't on a KK streak. The makushita-joi-basement (totally made up term) contains three of our rikishi. Sakamoto, Oyanagi, and Iwasaki. Realistically only Oyanagi has a shot of getting 7-0 and the automatic promotion. Oyanagi seems to have an easier first day bout anyway. In a complete reversal from the last few basho, makushita-joi is uninteresting for watchers of youngster trying to break into sekitorihood. Ms1-Ms3 is the domain of veterans, completely, and a large amount of sekitori experience between them. Above Sakamoto only one rikishi is at their career high, Meisei Ms5. (MeiSei5?) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sumozumo 240 Posted July 17, 2016 Nagoya 2016 Mid Term Update Shikona Age Country Heya Debut KK Current Rank Yushos Record Win% Last Basho This Basho Iwasaki23[/td]OitekazeHaru 20158 Makushita 10 West044-160.733 4-3 3-1 Ura23KiseNatsu 20157 Juryo 8 West154-110.831 10-5 6-2 Daiki23HakkakuNatsu 20157 Juryo 13 West244-130.772 4-3 5-3 Sakamoto23OitekazeHatsu 20163 Makushita 6 East014-110.560 4-3 2-2 Kotokamatani18SadogatakeHatsu 20163 Sandanme 24 West121-40.840 5-2 3-1 Nakashima17MusashigawaHatsu 20163 Sandanme 88 West016-90.64- 5-2 1-3 Oyanagi22TokitsukazeHaru 20162 Makushita 7 West217-10.944 7-0 Y 3-1 Ishibashi22TakasagoHaru 20163 Sandanme 11 West015-30.833 6-1 4-0 Tamaki22TakasagoHaru 20163 Sandanme 19 East218-01.000 7-0 Y 4-0 Ichiki22TamanoiHaru 20163 Sandanme 69 East016-20.889 6-1 4-0 Kaizen22AsakayamaHaru 20162 Sandanme 96 West014-40.778 5-2 3-1 Wayama19MusashigawaHaru 20162 Jonidan 2 East013-50.722 6-1 3-1 Izumigawa19MinezakiHaru 20162 Jonidan 26 West011-70.611 5-2 2-2 Uchida19[td]SakaigawaHaru 20162 Jonidan 41 West011-70.611 4-3 3-1 All of our makushita rikishi have taken a loss and are basically out of the promotion running for Juryo, so we won't see that this month. Oyanagi ate his first loss against Wakanoshima, dampening hopes that he'd rocket straight up to makuuchi. Sakamoto is again at 2-2, I think he really needs to show a 5-2 at this level to really demonstrate Juryo staying power. Even Onosho's slow crawl up makushita was primarily made up of 5-2s. 3 sandanme rikishi are already through on their KKs, and I guess the yusho will be between ishibashi and tamaki. Ishibashi is getting sent up to makushita tomorrow to deal with a low ranked 4-0 wrestler there. Very few guys are having a disastrous basho though and its quite scary because after this basho we add a ton of guys so the list may get very long indeed... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikawa 1,794 Posted July 17, 2016 Sakamoto's being 4-3ing his way up Makushita since his tsukedashi, and looks likely to continue that trend. Wonder how long it would take him to reach Juryo this way? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,663 Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) Sakamoto's being 4-3ing his way up Makushita since his tsukedashi, and looks likely to continue that trend. Wonder how long it would take him to reach Juryo this way?On average, probably three more 4-3's from Ms6e. One that gets him into the top 5 ranks, one that moves him up to Ms1 or Ms2, and one more for promotion. But there's a lot of luck going both ways up there - could be a quick Ms6e -> Ms3e -> promotion run, could just as well be something like Ms6e -> Ms4w -> Ms3e -> Ms2e -> Ms1e -> promotion if things gets crowded for several basho. Edit: Though I may have to backtrack a little bit... 4-3's at Ms6 in recent years - average promotion size just about exactly 3 ranks. 4-3's at Ms3 - juryo promotion for 9 out of 14 In this post-yaocho scandal world where juryo rikishi actually get demoted again, I guess two 4-3's would give him a good chance after all. Three would be a pretty safe bet. Edited July 18, 2016 by Asashosakari 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sumozumo 240 Posted July 18, 2016 I checked out the guys who managed a 4 win kachikochi at Ms1 (east or west) and still didn't get a Juryo promotion. I found something a little strange. Up until 1978 this happened quite often, then suddenly it stopped and dropped to about 3 per decade. This doesn't coincide with a division expansion, so maybe just a change of thinking up top? (It actually seems up until then there is a spectacular amount of 8-7 scores in Juryo) There is even one amazing example of a poor guy getting KK 3 times in a row at Ms1 and still not moving up to Juryo, Homanzan in 1966 http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=4245 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,663 Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) (It actually seems up until then there is a spectacular amount of 8-7 scores in Juryo)Yeah. I haven't looked at the 1970s, but at least for the last few years before juryo was cut from 18 to 13 ranks in 1967, the lower ranks in the division were KK'ing at an absurdly high rate. KK in juryo, 1962-1966 (fully absent rikishi excluded): J18 40/60 J17 33/58 J16 43/59 J15 39/60 J14 44/60 J13 39/59 --------- J13-18 combined: 238/356 (67%) J12 27/59 J11 25/59 J10 21/60 J9 22/60 J8 19/60 J7 22/60 J6 23/60 --------- J6-J12 combined: 159/418 (38%) J5 29/59 J4 30/58 J3 35/59 J2 33/58 J1 33/57 --------- J1-J5 combined: 160/291 (55%) The obvious guess is similar yaocho win-trading as that which was busted five years ago, but with the large size of the division back then, I suspect all it needed was a pronounced don't-give-a-damn attitude by those in the safe middle zone. After all, if you go 5-10 at J6 nowadays, you're suddenly in pretty big demotion danger in the very next basho, so it's not actually advisible to tank a basho.* If you did that back then, you still had a load of ranks beneath you, so coasting through a middle-ranked tournament had almost no consequences. * Unless you already know you're going to get those wins back next time, of course, as the pre-2011 yaocho conspirators did. At any rate, yeah, I think that mostly explains the high likelihood of bad banzuke luck at the top of makushita back then. And looking at the cutoff date you've identified - it looks like they became a lot more aggressive about overdemoting juryo MK's to make room for makushita promotees in mid-1977. And not just for Ms1 4-3's - lesser records such as Ms2 4-3 or Ms3 5-2 also benefited from it in many cases, as far as I can see. Edited July 18, 2016 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sumozumo 240 Posted September 1, 2016 Nagoya 2016 Final Wall Rikishi Heya Age Debut KK Rank Yusho W L ％ Last Current Iwasaki Oitekaze 24 2015.01 9 Makushita 10w 0 45 18 0.714 4-3 4-3 Daiki Hakkaku 24 2015.03 8 Juryo 13w 2 49 15 0.766 4-3 10-5 Ura Kise 24 2015.03 8 Juryo 8w 1 59 13 0.819 10-5 11-4 Sakamoto Oitekaze 23 2016.01 4 Makushita 6e 0 16 12 0.571 4-3 4-3 Kotokamatani Sadogatake 18 2015.11 4 Sandanme 24w 1 23 5 0.821 5-2 5-2 Oyanagi Tokitsukaze 22 2016.03 3 Makushita 7w 2 20 1 0.952 7-0 Y 6-1 Ishibashi Takasago 22 2016.03 3 Sandanme 11w 0 17 4 0.810 6-1 6-1 Tamaki Takasago 23 2016.01 3 Sandanme 19e 2 20 1 0.952 7-0 Y 6-1 Ichiki Tamanoi 22 2016.01 3 Sandanme 69e 0 18 3 0.857 6-1 6-1 Nakashima Musashigawa 17 2015.11 3 Sandanme 88w 0 18 10 0.643 5-2 3-4 Kaizen Asakayama 23 2016.01 3 Sandanme 96w 0 17 4 0.810 5-2 6-1 Wayama Musashigawa 18 2016.01 3 Jonidan 2e 0 15 6 0.714 6-1 5-2 Izumigawa Minezaki 19 2016.01 3 Jonidan 26w 0 13 8 0.619 5-2 4-3 Uchida Sakaigawa 18 2016.01 3 Jonidan 41w 0 14 7 0.667 4-3 6-1 Well the forum update sort of destroyed the formatting of the old posts which is ugly but gives a chance to try something new. If it had only kept the tables intact enough to be paste-able... If anyone knows a way to avoid the forum from adding some padding to the top and bottom of each cell that isn't there in my sheet, let me know. The big surprise for the Nagoya wall is that nearly everyone passed by. Actually, all wall KK and MK except for Daiki was decided by day 12, so it really wasn't exciting for clinching matches. I'll have the Aki wall up shortly, with a ton of guys to add - its going to be the biggest list in a while or ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sumozumo 240 Posted September 1, 2016 (edited) Aki 2016 Fresh Feeling Rikishi Heya Age Debut KK Rank Yusho W L ï¼… Last Current Iwasaki Oitekaze 24 2015.01 9 Makushita 7w 0 45 18 0.714 4-3 0-0 Ura Kise 24 2015.03 8 Juryo 1e 1 59 13 0.819 11-4 0-0 Daiki Hakkaku 24 2015.03 8 Juryo 6w 2 49 15 0.766 10-5 0-0 Sakamoto Oitekaze 23 2016.01 4 Makushita 3w 0 16 12 0.571 4-3 0-0 Kotokamatani Sadogatake 18 2015.11 4 Makushita 59w 1 23 5 0.821 5-2 0-0 Oyanagi Tokitsukaze 22 2016.03 3 Makushita 1e 2 20 1 0.952 6-1 0-0 Ishibashi Takasago 22 2016.03 3 Makushita 36w 0 17 4 0.810 6-1 0-0 Tamaki Takasago 23 2016.01 3 Makushita 41e 2 20 1 0.952 6-1 0-0 Ichiki Tamanoi 22 2016.01 3 Sandanme 14e 0 18 3 0.857 6-1 0-0 Kaizen Asakayama 23 2016.01 3 Sandanme 36w 0 17 4 0.810 6-1 0-0 Wayama Musashigawa 18 2016.01 3 Sandanme 65e 0 15 6 0.714 5-2 0-0 Uchida Sakaigawa 18 2016.01 3 Sandanme 76w 0 14 7 0.667 6-1 0-0 Izumigawa Minezaki 19 2016.01 3 Jonidan 8w 0 13 8 0.619 4-3 0-0 Ikegawa Hakkaku 23 2016.03 2 Sandanme 19w 1 14 0 1.000 7-0 D 0-0 Kizaki Kise 23 2016.03 2 Sandanme 39w 1 13 1 0.929 7-0 Y 0-0 Hatooka Kise 22 2016.03 2 Sandanme 70w 0 12 2 0.857 6-1 0-0 Takemasa Onomatsu 22 2016.03 2 Sandanme 92e 0 11 3 0.786 6-1 0-0 Kotohayashi Sadogatake 19 2016.03 2 Jonidan 16w 0 10 4 0.714 5-2 0-0 Kotoinagaki Sadogatake 22 2016.03 2 Jonidan 23w 0 9 5 0.643 5-2 0-0 Satoyama Hakkaku 16 2016.03 2 Jonidan 24w 0 9 5 0.643 5-2 0-0 Yoshizaki Sakaigawa 18 2016.03 2 Jonidan 46w 0 8 6 0.571 4-3 0-0 Kodera Hakkaku 16 2016.03 2 Jonidan 50w 0 8 6 0.571 4-3 0-0 Link to DB for Mid-Basho Updates Bout by Bout for each Wall member Wow, that's a list! There will definitely be some casualties this basho... Ura is of course right on the Juryo pole position at 1 East, so promotion is pretty much guaranteed for any KK. Daiki is in a fairly promotable position as well, as long as he scores big. Oyanagi and Sakamoto could join them in sekitori-land, if they continue avoiding the wall. Oyanagi is a pretty safe bet, a 4-3 basho would be good enough and he beat enough quality opponents last basho that it is hard to doubt him. Sakamoto is still having trouble putting together a 5-2 or better basho, so unless he's put in the extra training this time around its hard to see him getting to Juryo without some luck. Iwasaki is still in the 7 win promotion zone but that outcome is basically a dream. Ishibashi, Tamaki, and Kotokamatani all rose up to Makushita. Kotokamatani is also the best fairing teenager so far. He hasn't really matched Sato's progress up the banzuke and it is hard to see him progressing much further than this for now. We added 9 new guys to the wall, and it really shows off the recruitment power of some of the heya. Hakkaku now has 4 on the list, Sadogatake has 3, as does Kise which is usually well represented anyway. Ikegawa and Kizaki are the cream of the new crop, but Hatooka shouldn't be discounted either. Both of his losses were to Ikegawa, so we should see another good result there. Kizaki suffered his loss to Kotoinagaki in Jonikuchi somehow, it was hikiotoshi so maybe he slipped. Â Edited September 14, 2016 by Sumozumo 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bumpkin 438 Posted September 1, 2016 Sumozumo. Great thread and the new table looks great! Bumpkin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,663 Posted September 2, 2016 On 1.9.2016 at 06:59, Sumozumo said: Bout by Bout for each Wall member (sorry for the errant Juryo Satoyama...) Fixed. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sumozumo 240 Posted September 14, 2016 Thanks, and to think I've done queries in the db in Japanese before... sheesh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
