Basho Talk - Aki Basho 2016 +++ Spoiler Alert! +++

[rzombie1988 159]

Some thoughts on various wrestlers:

- Harumafuji. He didn't win, but he's been injury free lately, looking solid and definitely been in the hunt. I consider it a positive tournament for him overall. He's clearly looking like the #2 wrestler right now.

- Kakuryu - Looked awful all tournament with a bad start. Seemed slower and just didn't seem to be all there. Not Yokozuna like at all.

- Kisenosato - Like Kak and Harumafuji, he blew it with early losses. Another Yokozuna run down the drain. I though this was a bad tournament to blow with Kak sucking and Hakuho being out. This was tailor made for him, but as usual he came up short. I'd get mad, but he was out in the first few days when he lost. Not real sure what he needs at this point as he's been given every helping hand he could ask for and it's not enough. Maybe a lack of expectations would do him well.

- Terunofuji - Just take a few months off already before you really hurt yourself and are forced to take a break. You are not looking like an Ozeki anymore due to your injuries. Get them fixed now before its too late.

- Kotoshogiku - If he gets 8 wins and doesn't get henka'd multiple times, it's a decent tournament for him, which was the case here.

- Goeido - Props to him. He took advantage of a tournament without Hakuho. I actually wouldn't promote him for anything less than a title next time around, or else we'll end up with another Kakuryu. I thought he looked better actually a few tournaments ago when Hakuho took the win, but he was good here. Can't really say anything bad about a 15-0.

- Takayasu - He's gonna regret falling off in the last few days. A 12 or 13 win tournament would have helped him a lot. He looked good early on but lost his touch later. I don't know if he's going to be able to get another 11 next around for the promotion with a Fresh Hak, Harumafuji looking good and an inspired Goeido. Would love to see another Ozeki though and hope he can pull through.

- Kaisei - Fell off a bit compared to previous tournaments and now he's going down in rank. He didn't use his weight to his advantage and looked too much like Kaisei B.

- Tochinoshin - Same old issues as usual. He always grabs the belt from the side and the back, trying to brute force lift people instead of grabbing in the front and pushing them. You can see where this is getting him. If his belt work was even average he could challenge the Ozeki's.

- Shodai - He went on full tilt mode the first week but looked better the second week. He looks really good when he's not tilting.

- Ura - Concerned about him as he just experienced what undersized people like Takanoyama and Satoyama have experience where size > skill. Looks like he may join the Juryo-yo club where you alternate between Makuuchi and Juryo.. He's going to have to do more than the submarine technique.

Overall thoughts: Fun basho that gave us a new winner. But the Dai Yokozuna is coming back folks. I'm also hoping Ichinojo gets kicked down to Juryo so he can wake up a bit and realize he needs to step up.

Edited September 25, 2016 by rzombie1988

[Dapeng 236]

4 hours ago, Morty said:

Great, great basho. Very happy for Godo. The absence of Hak made it really interesting. For the first time in a long time it opened things right up and made it seem like anything could happen. Looking forward to seeing how Mitakeumi and Endo do in November. 

I remember there was a year before Akebono and Takanohana dominating the dohyo,  each basho there was a new winner......6 different winners in a calendar year!   However, that year's sumo was of low-quality and boring. 

If no dominating rikishi, or a rikishi too dominating for too long, people will lose interest in sumo.

 

Edited September 25, 2016 by Dapeng
Typos

[Benevolance 2,511]

I'm confused by these results. Is Goeidou on an ozeki run now?

[gijo 27]

4 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

If no dominating rikishi, or a rikishi too dominating for too long, people will lose interest in sumo.

 

I'd rather prefer a group of dominating rikishi with youngsters attacking them from the backlines.

[Asashosakari 19,648]

41-year-old Isenohana with a show of power:

And a highlight bout from makushita-joi:

 

[WAKATAKE 2,671]

Mitakeumi is poised to become the first shin-sanyaku from Nagano prefecture since 1932.

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1715466.html

[robnplunder 976]

4 hours ago, WAKATAKE said:

Mitakeumi is poised to become the first shin-sanyaku from Nagano prefecture since 1932.

http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/1715466.html

Can he stay there is the big question.    In the last few bashos, Shodai & Mita have been taking turns going up and down the Makuuchi division.   However, they are reaching higher highs in those elevator rides.   Shodai's fall from M1 this time is going to be smaller than before.  Mitak's climb is going to at his highest.  Throw in Endo in the mix and there we have 3 rikishi who may be the future after the 30 somethings retire.   

As for Ura, his hope to be a regular Makuuchi rikishi hangs on how much weight he gain while maintaining his speed.  Otherwise, he will be another Satoyama, a younger version at that.  Ditto for Ishihura although he does not seem the type to gain weight.  

Edited September 26, 2016 by robnplunder

[Bumpkin 438]

What about Daiki, Onosho and Sato?  I believe they each have a future in Sanyaku.  Of course, only time will tell.

[Katooshu 3,332]

Daiki strikes me as having similar potential to Mitakeumi and Shodai, although we'll see how he does in the top division.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Katooshu

[Washuyama 641]

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but the last time an Ozeki went zensho and it wasn't part of a successful Yokozuna run was over 30 years ago with Wakashimazu in 1984.

[Hakuyobaku 33]

35 minutes ago, Washuyama said:

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but the last time an Ozeki went zensho and it wasn't part of a successful Yokozuna run was over 30 years ago with Wakashimazu in 1984.

Not entirely accurate, Musashimaru went 15-0 as Ozeki but wasn't promoted until 5 years after. Onokuni's 15-0 was also (arguably) not part of his Yokozuna run. at least not technically as those are usually 2 basho Onokuni's 15-0 was right before that.

Maybe what you meant to say was that Wakashimazu was the last Ozeki to go 15-0 and never to get promoted, that would stand true.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Hakuyobaku

[robnplunder 976]

11 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

What about Daiki, Onosho and Sato?  I believe they each have a future in Sanyaku.  Of course, only time will tell.

Of the 3, I like Daiki's chance the best.  Onosho & Sato may end up being Makuuchi regulars someday but I don't seem them rising to Ozeki rank.

[Benihana 1,937]

Finally had the time to watch the second half.

Well, i failed miserably forecasting the juryo leaders. I feel a little baka.

But nevertheless Ura had some amazing bouts, got his first kensho and he WILL make it to makuuchi permanently no later than 2017. Fight on little bugger!

Without injuring himself again, Osu would have been in the yusho race. Success-blocked by injury after injury...high maegashira/sanyaku if he can stay fit.

Aminishiki my hero. Although he lost to Chiyomaru slapstick-style, this fight was hilarious. Entertainment at it's best. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. I hope he can recover to make a final makuuchi-run. He still is just too good for juryo at age 37. I really admire him.

Almost the same for Amuru, he is good enough for maegashira, but his knees are not.

Best day was day 14 with all my 4 juryo favourites in just 2 bouts, both monoiied, one of them wrong. 

 

Like everybody else i didn't see Goeido coming. Never believed he could win a basho in this way. He must have borrowed Hakuho's MOJO for this basho. I still can not see him repeating this kind of black magic the next basho, because well...after all he's still Goeido. I won't be unhappy if he proves me wrong, but i still would feel betrayed, because i think Kise deserves it more. And maybe none of them wins the tsuna an the next tsuna-run is started by Takayasu. I am entirely distraught.

I can't remember having seen such a fantastic stare-down the last years, anyway not in @Kintamayamas videos.

Mitakeumi did pretty fine, sanyaku here we come. Kotoyuki and Takekaze climbing the ladder, too. Very nice.

Would somebody finally kill Kaisei B, please? Pretty, pretty please? Any ninja assassins for hire?

Tochinoshin is another example for success hampered by a failing body. Speaking of Tochinoshin, is it legal to powerbomb an opponent?

 

[Washuyama 641]

23 hours ago, Hakuyobaku said:

Not entirely accurate, Musashimaru went 15-0 as Ozeki but wasn't promoted until 5 years after. Onokuni's 15-0 was also (arguably) not part of his Yokozuna run. at least not technically as those are usually 2 basho Onokuni's 15-0 was right before that.

Maybe what you meant to say was that Wakashimazu was the last Ozeki to go 15-0 and never to get promoted, that would stand true.

OK, I'll admit, I missed Musashimaru's zensho (probably cause it happened so early in his long tenure as Ozeki.).  But there's no way in hell you can convince me that Onokuni's wasn't part of a 15Y-12J-13J tsunatori.  I know most are a two basho run of yusho or equivalent, but there is no such thing as a "hard and fast rule" when it comes to the NSK and his three basho run was probably an abbreviated example of what we now know as "the Kisenosato never ending Yokozuna run.".  

[hamcornheinz 839]

On 26/09/2016 at 01:08, Bumpkin said:

What about Daiki, Onosho and Sato?  I believe they each have a future in Sanyaku.  Of course, only time will tell.

Sato? Really?

[Randomitsuki 2,843]

26 minutes ago, hamcornheinz said:

Sato? Really?

I concur. Onosho (20) has a good sumo body, and I've come to like his spirit (heavy and frantic, like a little fat brother of Yoshikaze) over the last few months. Apparently he has worked on his skills not to fall for pulling sumo too easily, and it paid off this basho. Sato (20), on the other hand, looked quite hapless in many bouts this basho and benefited from a much softer schedule (though he was higher ranked than Onosho).

Daiki was more solid than both Onosho and Sato, but he doesn't necessarilty have age on his side (he's 24 already).

[robnplunder 976]

47 minutes ago, Randomitsuki said:

Daiki was more solid than both Onosho and Sato, but he doesn't necessarilty have age on his side (he's 24 already).

I think his age is fine whether you are suggesting he is too young or old.  

[Bumpkin 438]

4 hours ago, hamcornheinz said:

Sato? Really?

Yes.  Really.  Juryo at age 19 and a half.  Seems like a very bright future to me.  I will, however, defer to Kintamayama.  Kinta?

Edited September 27, 2016 by Bumpkin

[robnplunder 976]

IMHO, Sato does not have the size to reach the top.   He may survive in Makuuchi and may even get to Sekiwake one day.   Beyond that, I don't see it.   Ditto for Ura, Onosho. 

[Morty 1,505]

10 hours ago, robnplunder said:

IMHO, Sato does not have the size to reach the top.   He may survive in Makuuchi and may even get to Sekiwake one day.   Beyond that, I don't see it.   Ditto for Ura, Onosho. 

The only problem with this thesis is that Harumafuji is consistently the lightest rikishi in Makuuchi, and is nowhere near the tallest. There have been many small (and successful) rikishi in the past (Toyonoshima, Terao etc). Even Chiyonofuji wasn't that big...

[hamcornheinz 839]

1 hour ago, Morty said:

The only problem with this thesis is that Harumafuji is consistently the lightest rikishi in Makuuchi, and is nowhere near the tallest. There have been many small (and successful) rikishi in the past (Toyonoshima, Terao etc). Even Chiyonofuji wasn't that big...

Harumafuji is huge compared to Sato. Size does matter. Toyonoshima isn't small either, and Terao wasn't small during his era. 

[robnplunder 976]

16 minutes ago, hamcornheinz said:

Harumafuji is huge compared to Sato. Size does matter. Toyonoshima isn't small either, and Terao wasn't small during his era. 

I don't think anyone shorter than 180cm has won a basho recently.   Sato checks in at 173 cm IIRC.

[Jakusotsu 6,049]

2 hours ago, hamcornheinz said:

Toyonoshima isn't small either

Which Toyonoshima are you talking about? The current J8 who is 4cm shorter than Sato?

[Dapeng 236]

On Sunday, September 25, 2016 at 11:07, Morty said:

19 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Which Toyonoshima are you talking about? The current J8 who is 4cm shorter than Sato?

Maybe he is the shortest but at 158 kg he is by no means the smallest. 

[robnplunder 976]

Short and heavy do not seem to be the physical formula to make a riskishi into an Ozeki.   I think they can reach Sekiwake for sure.   But tall (at least 180 cm) and fit seem to be the right physical formula.  My uneducated 2 cents.