The Scientific "real" strenght of a rikishi.

[Stein 30]

Hi everyone.

My question is, what is the standard true strenght of a sumo wrestler? in terms of how much could they, for example, lift on a bench press?

Some people find this subject useless, but i believe that is a good way to measure how much the sport has truly progressed.

I read some time ago that Asashoryu was able to bench 200kg (Impressive even for a powerlifter) and leg press 600+ Kilograms. Now that is an impressive amount of strenght that i think is responsible in a big way of the success that he had during his prime.

What do you guys think? Did the guys like Akebono and Takanohana lift weights in his prime? How much could they lift? how do they compare to the ones like Hakuho, harumafuji and Kakuryu strenght wise?

PS: i am really curious about kisenosato in this topic, he has a great "classic" physique for sumo, mainly fat with less Muscle-to-fat ratio than any other yokozuna of the last 20 years, does he lift weights?

[Stein 30]

Well, 260 kg in a bench press is something that no one in any drug tested powerlifting federation has ever achieved, sounds crazy, it takes an insane amount of steroids and training to do that....what a guy this Terunofuji...

[Umigame 82]

2 hours ago, Stein said:

Well, 260 kg in a bench press is something that no one in any drug tested powerlifting federation has ever achieved, sounds crazy, it takes an insane amount of steroids and training to do that....what a guy this Terunofuji...

Nonsense. The IPF is a drug tested federation. Their world record bench in the over-120kg weight class ("classic" i.e. non-equipped) is 283kg, lifted by Boughalem Ilyes at a bodyweight of 154.9kg.

http://www.powerlifting-ipf.com/championships/records.html

Terunofuji is 30kg heavier, so it's not surprising that he could lift almost as much. 

 

[Stein 30]

2 hours ago, Umigame said:

Nonsense. The IPF is a drug tested federation. Their world record bench in the over-120kg weight class ("classic" i.e. non-equipped) is 283kg, lifted by Boughalem Ilyes at a bodyweight of 154.9kg.

http://www.powerlifting-ipf.com/championships/records.html

Terunofuji is 30kg heavier, so it's not surprising that he could lift almost as much. 

 

Sir, i belive that you know little about powerlifting.

First: in the IPF they use BENCH SHIRTS, which allow you to increase your maximum weight by AT LEAST 100 pounds (around 40 kg) with ease.

Second: In the IPF the drug test are a joke, since many athletes who have admitted to be on drugs such as the legendary Ed Coan competed and won many titles within the IPF tournaments.

So Terunofuji is lifting Raw nearly the same amount of weight that steroid using pro powerlifters are doing with Bench shirts, do you get the point?

[torquato 1,075]

2 hours ago, Umigame said:

The IPF is a drug tested federation.

Drug free sports? Really?

Oh. Look there. A pink elephant is flying in front of my window!. Seriously.

[Stein 30]

1 minute ago, torquato said:

Drug free sports? Really?

Oh. Look there. A pink elephant is flying in front of my window!. Seriously.

Thats what i am saying, the guys in the IPF are breaking world records made by guys in the 90s who were using tons of Steroids and Growth Hormone, some people are just delusional, same with terunofuji, if he really can bench 260 raw while focusing on sumo training, he has to be on something or he is the strongest man ever to walk the earth.

[Stein 30]

7 hours ago, John Gunning said:

Last time I checked Terunofuji was benching 260 and rising

Awesome, could you give us some insight on how they approach weight training? how many times a week? how much time per session? how many reps?

[orandashoho 720]

Wow, that is some well-equipped exercise room.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

The relatively sudden change in his skin condition would seem to indicate he is using some sort of anabolic steroid. Hatsu this year his skin was more or less clear, but in March the change was quite noticeable. It is worse if anything this basho. For a 25-year-old man with no history (we've been able to see for ourselves for some years now) to develop it so rapidly and in the classic chest shoulders back pattern strongly suggests use. All the usual caveats apply - sumo does not forbid nor test for steroids and so on.

[Umigame 82]

9 hours ago, Stein said:

First: in the IPF they use BENCH SHIRTS, which allow you to increase your maximum weight by AT LEAST 100 pounds (around 40 kg) with ease.

I told you that IPF record 283kg bench was non-equipped. That means no bench shirt.

The equipped record is 410kg, which is an increase of over 100kg, not 100 pounds.

So your initial statement "260 kg in a bench press is something that no one in any drug tested powerlifting federation has ever achieved" still stands as a lie.

I don't know what compels a troll to come to this forum and spread disinformation, but I won't debate any more with a liar since there is no point. 

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

10 hours ago, John Gunning said:

I wonder how many other sports only test for performance decreasing drugs.

There is a case to be made for performance enhancement.

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-marijuana-affects-working-out-2015-1

That said, I think the way WADA does it where it's only banned in competition is probably a reasonable compromise that could be adopted in this case (notwithstanding the social stigma and draconian stance taken by police & prosecutors here).

[Katooshu 3,334]

Does it say in that video that each dumbbell Terunofuji's lifting is 45kg, or is that 45kg between the two?

[Stein 30]

On 2017-5-28 at 04:27, Umigame said:

I told you that IPF record 283kg bench was non-equipped. That means no bench shirt.

The equipped record is 410kg, which is an increase of over 100kg, not 100 pounds.

So your initial statement "260 kg in a bench press is something that no one in any drug tested powerlifting federation has ever achieved" still stands as a lie.

I don't know what compels a troll to come to this forum and spread disinformation, but I won't debate any more with a liar since there is no point. 

I am not a troll just because i disagree with you.

I ve been in powerlifting for a couple of years and i know what i am saying. Some of the best competitors of the IPF were guys from Westside Barbell, a gym ruled by legendary Louie Simmons, and he admitted himself being on steroids even at age 60, and he claimed that all of his lifters where taking stuff, like he said "i am not interested in ordinary results, i am interested in records".

Therefore if you can find one single natural lifter who can bench 260+ kilograms RAW no matter the bodyweight, you can make a point.

I will make you a spoiler: You shall never found one.

[Stein 30]

8 hours ago, Katooshu said:

Does it say in that video that each dumbbell Terunofuji's lifting is 45kg, or is that 45kg between the two?

I am pretty sure its 45 kg on each dumbell which is a pretty impressive lift for reps, no way they are 22,5 kilograms each, i can actually curl that much weight for 6 reps (not easy) and of course i am nowhere near Terunofuji s incredible level of strenght, so yeah, its 45 kg each dumbell.

[Katooshu 3,334]

Unreal if he's curling 45kg per arm that easily. I once managed about 28kg and felt like superman

Edited May 31, 2017 by Katooshu

[autotroph 43]

I have no desire to enter the pointless "are IPF lifters clean" quagmire, but for what it's worth a 260kg bench press at upwards of 160kg bodyweight is elite level for tested athletes (see the bench presses of the 120kg+ class at last year's IPF Classic unequipped world championships here, at the bottom of the page), and for untested athletes it is world class also (see the bench presses at the most recent CETC US Open here, again at the bottom). The raw (without a bench shirt) all time, any federation, world record for 140+kg is 301kg, set by James Henderson in 1997 (source).

Also, regarding this:

On 2017-5-29 at 15:33, Stein said:

Therefore if you can find one single natural lifter who can bench 260+ kilograms RAW no matter the bodyweight, you can make a point.

I will make you a spoiler: You shall never found one.

as you can see from the IPF classic scoresheet, Jezza Uepa of Nauru benched 260kg in a full meet. Here is Siamand Rhaman, an incredible athlete from Iran, benching 301kg (equalling James Henderson's record) in the Paralympics:

As I said, I think it's a waste of time to argue over whether these guys are natural or not, especially in the context here: as has been mentioned previously, I think Terunofuji is almost certainly on PEDS (not that I have a problem with that).

[autotroph 43]

Anyway, I am a powerlifter too, and it would be great to find out more about the strength levels of these guys. Terunofuji often shows incredible back and leg strength, almost playing about with his opponents! I would love to know some of his numbers on the squat and deadlift, along with the other big guys like Hak, Asa, and Kise. Putting the insanely complicated technique aside for one minute, just the sheer strength alone required to pull this off boggles my mind (bearing in mind that Okinoumi probably weighs around 160kg too lol).

 

[Stein 30]

On 2017-5-31 at 12:17, autotroph said:

Anyway, I am a powerlifter too, and it would be great to find out more about the strength levels of these guys. Terunofuji often shows incredible back and leg strength, almost playing about with his opponents! I would love to know some of his numbers on the squat and deadlift, along with the other big guys like Hak, Asa, and Kise. Putting the insanely complicated technique aside for one minute, just the sheer strength alone required to pull this off boggles my mind (bearing in mind that Okinoumi probably weighs around 160kg too lol).

 

Thats what i amsaying, i have no problem with PEDs, its just a bit ignorant to claim that there is no PEDs in sumo when you are constantly watching guys bench over 200kg and bulk 50 kg in less than 4 years.,

[Churaumi 745]

They also eat, drink, and train way more than us normies. And they are, at least the great ones, freaks. He is about twice my weight, is about six inches taller, is a pro athlete, and benches about twice what I ever have. Seems credible to me.

[Benihana 1,937]

On 5.6.2017 at 20:40, Stein said:

Thats what i amsaying, i have no problem with PEDs, its just a bit ignorant to claim that there is no PEDs in sumo when you are constantly watching guys bench over 200kg and bulk 50 kg in less than 4 years.,

Ahemmm...i won't bench 200kg then, but keep the Nutella deliveries coming and i'll bulk MORE than 50kg in 4 years...

[autotroph 43]

Regarding highest raw benches, here's a couple from last month's IPF Classic world championships in Belarus.

260KG at 118KG bodyweight.

and 270KG at 184KG bodyweight.

And here is a 283KG bench at 154KG bodyweight from the end of 2016:

 

[Stein 30]

On 13/7/2017 at 12:52, autotroph said:

Regarding highest raw benches, here's a couple from last month's IPF Classic world championships in Belarus.

260KG at 118KG bodyweight.

and 270KG at 184KG bodyweight.

And here is a 283KG bench at 154KG bodyweight from the end of 2016:

 

I get your point, but this are elite powerlifters, who train the Bench press several days a week, on gear and without any other training besides the squat and deadlift.

Terunofuji does much more training, cardio, wrestling, etc, therefore its still amazing to me that he can bench that much without even being a powerlifter.

[autotroph 43]

Yeah I totally agree. It's insane the strength levels these guys show, considering that they are not training specifically for it.

It shows that all the gadgets people are obsessed about - bands, chains, foam rollers lol - don't mean too much...

[Stein 30]

Hello everyone.

I just want to update this thread by adding a Youtube channel from no other than Kotoshogiku s fitness trainer.

I found this out of luck, to be honest, and i think that his videos are very interesting.

In the first place, his 280 kg squat is AMAZING, so are his shoulder endurance, by the way.

Check it out if you like:

 

 

 

[maorencze 144]

On 29. 5. 2017 at 16:33, Stein said:

I am not a troll just because i disagree with you.

I ve been in powerlifting for a couple of years and i know what i am saying. Some of the best competitors of the IPF were guys from Westside Barbell, a gym ruled by legendary Louie Simmons, and he admitted himself being on steroids even at age 60, and he claimed that all of his lifters where taking stuff, like he said "i am not interested in ordinary results, i am interested in records".

Therefore if you can find one single natural lifter who can bench 260+ kilograms RAW no matter the bodyweight, you can make a point.

I will make you a spoiler: You shall never found one.

Henry Tuilagi (rugby player) reportedly did 250kg 5reps when challenged by Andrew Sheridan's feats of strength. Both guys were tested a plenty of times during their career, both lifted raw, Tuilagi in addition ran under 11s 100m dash. And then there are/were even more http://www.bulkingbro.com/16-biggest-strongest-rugby-player-freaks/ which in a sport quite well known for being clean is huge. And only proves 260kg raw bench is attainable if you are a freak of nature.

That said, while I believe Teru is a true freak and strong as phuck naturally, I also think he is "helping himself" with some juice