YDC convenes-Nagoya 2017

[Kintamayama 45,524]

Remember when that title sounded ominous and scary? Nowadays no one seems to give a hoot. I'm pretty sure most of us don't even know who the current chairman is. Where is Ms. Uchidate.. Anyhow, they convened today. They praised Hakuhou. "This record  will likely never ever be surpassed. It will still grow and I think it is an enormous enterprise. Just when everyone said he was past his peak he got this kind of power back and this is incredible!! " said Chairman Kitamura (that's his name). But you can't have a YDC meeting without a "but". Some members did not like Hakuhou's henkas and harite face slaps. "The guy at the very top of the banzuke hitting the cheeks of lower ranked rikishi is legal, but leaves a bad impression, I've heard people say. I know he's getting older and using all kinds of techniques is a result of his not wanting to lose, so it's complicated. It certainly left a bad taste in my mouth, " added Kitamura. Regarding Yokozuna Kisenosato- "I would like him to take the time and heal his body thoroughly and enter the basho at his best. If he can't heal in time, he should go kyujo.Most of us agree on that It's OK. . " said the chairman. Before last basho, he said the same thing. "We are stressing this now even more than two months ago. He was a bit optimistic when he thought he could come out and do well as a Yokozuna should. I feel he was pushed by the wish to please the fans and show them his responsibility as a Yokozuna, and that clouded his judgement, " added Kitamura. Kakuryuu, who showed up all the way only in March? "Being away for so many days is not good," said the good Chairman. "Showing up injured and performing poorly is a slight on the fans. The next time he appears will be critical. If he goes kyujo again we will have to voice our opinion, " said YDC member Mr. Tokura, composer. Maybe sing it?

 

[Stelios 30]

So I will sound stupid and shallow just to point out that a Japanese Yokozuna should have the right to take all the time in the world to heal properly but a Mongolian Yokozuna should not be missing too many fights! 

[Kintamayama 45,524]

4 minutes ago, Stelios said:

So I will sound stupid and shallow just to point out that a Japanese Yokozuna should have the right to take all the time in the world to heal properly but a Mongolian Yokozuna should not be missing too many fights! 

You can't compare Kakuryuu to Kisenosato at this juncture. Kisenosato got back to back yushos January (as an Ozeki) and March (with all the heroics of a dead man walking)  and left May and July. Kakuryuu was out this year for three basho and in March, when he was in all the way, was 10-5. No comparison and no doubt that from the beginning of this year Kakuryuu is not Yokozuna -like by any means.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Kintamayama

[dada78641 884]

10 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Some members did not like Hakuhou's henkas and harite face slaps. "The guy at the very top of the banzuke hitting the cheeks of lower ranked rikishi is legal, but leaves a bad impression, I've heard people say. I know he's getting older and using all kinds of techniques is a result of his not wanting to lose, so it's complicated. It certainly left a bad taste in my mouth, "

It's kind of a ridiculous thing to say, in my opinion. First of all, Hakuho doesn't do this because he's "old." Yotsu-zumo is still his specialty and his safest and fastest way of winning a bout. And second... this is a professional sport. Not a dress rehearsal. The council should be above complaining about wrestlers doing things that are perfectly legal.

[Kintamayama 45,524]

5 minutes ago, dada78641 said:

It's kind of a ridiculous thing to say, in my opinion. First of all, Hakuho doesn't do this because he's "old." Yotsu-zumo is still his specialty and his safest and fastest way of winning a bout. And second... this is a professional sport. Not a dress rehearsal. The council should be above complaining about wrestlers doing things that are perfectly legal.

"Getting older" does not equal "old". And he is getting older and his sumo is not the same as it was 3-4 years ago. They are not complaining about "wrestlers"- they are complaining about the Yokozunae. That's their job and their reason for existence.. Henkas done by Yokozunae are and always were frowned upon, regardless of origin, legality aside.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Kintamayama

[Stelios 30]

13 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

You can't compare Kakuryuu to Kisenosato at this juncture. Kisenosato got back to back yushos January (as an Ozeki) and March (with all the heroics of a dead man walking)  and left May and July. Kakuryuu was out this year for three basho and in March, when he was in all the way, was 10-5. No comparison and no doubt that from the beginning of this year Kakuryuu is not Yokozuna -like by any means.

Very true. Nevertheless, you will have fun watching Karaev vs Musashi in K-1WORLD GP2005, readily available on Youtube! You will remember me  

[RabidJohn 1,855]

Getting whacked on the chin by the heel of Hakuho's hand is hardly what I'd call a slap! While I understand where he's coming from, I find myself respectfully disagreeing with Kitamura-san, in that I really enjoyed the boss showing the oshi-boys how it's done. His "it's complicated" prevarication makes me wonder if he didn't actually enjoy it himself, but he's expected to say otherwise...

[Kintamayama 45,524]

Just now, RabidJohn said:

His "it's complicated" prevarication makes me wonder if he didn't actually enjoy it himself, but he's expected to say otherwise...

Indeed.

[Gaijingai 1,597]

Hmmm..Gaijin  Akebono is forced to hurry back from injury and retired soon thereafter. Golden boy Takanohana is given all the time in the world, including seeing a quack in France. Hmmmm.   

[ryafuji 815]

1 hour ago, Gaijingai said:

Hmmm..Gaijin  Akebono is forced to hurry back from injury and retired soon thereafter. Golden boy Takanohana is given all the time in the world, including seeing a quack in France. Hmmmm.   

That's not accurate at all. During Akebono's three basho layoff from November 1998 to March 1999 from a herniated disc he was given a vote of confidence by riji-cho Tokitukaze Oyakata who told him in person that he could take as much time as he needed to fully recover. He had a full year of no kyujo in 2000 winning three tournaments and then retired after the January 2001 tournament so I have no idea what time period you are referring to. And I believe Takanohana was told after his seven basho absence that he had to compete in September 2002 or they would call for him to retire.

Edited July 24, 2017 by ryafuji
date fix

[dingo 1,294]

I get the feeling that the YDC is criticising Hakuho just because they can't let him get away with only praise. It's kinda part of being the YDC,they feel the need to be critical about something, even when there's not much to criticise. 

Edited July 24, 2017 by dingo

[dada78641 884]

4 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

"Getting older" does not equal "old". And he is getting older and his sumo is not the same as it was 3-4 years ago. They are not complaining about "wrestlers"- they are complaining about the Yokozunae. That's their job and their reason for existence.. Henkas done by Yokozunae are and always were frowned upon, regardless of origin, legality aside.

As much as I dislike henkas, I don't see the point in people putting pressure on the top brass of the sport by demanding that they modify their sumo to some specific style because it's more aesthetically pleasing. It's a sport after all. Then again I do see that they are trying to look out for the popularity of sumo. And I suppose they do need to have something critical to say to justify their existence.

Well, it's not like anything will change as a result of their statement anyway.

[Kintamayama 45,524]

Just now, dada78641 said:

Well, it's not like anything will change as a result of their statement anyway.

That pretty much sums it all..

[Fukurou 534]

6 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Where is Ms. Uchidate..

Writing TV series scripts: the TV Asahi series Age Harassment  in 2015, and 2016's Heartloss for CBC/TBS.  I wonder what happened to the fortune teller.

[sekitori 492]

3 hours ago, dada78641 said:

As much as I dislike henkas, I don't see the point in people putting pressure on the top brass of the sport by demanding that they modify their sumo to some specific style because it's more aesthetically pleasing. It's a sport after all. 

 

These people should be reminded that the only sport where points for actual results and "style points" are combined is ski jumping. As long as a rikishi wins and does it legally, nothing else matters. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by sekitori

[Sakura 1,495]

2 hours ago, sekitori said:

These people should be reminded that the only sport where both results and "style points" count is ski jumping. As long as a rikishi wins and does it legally, nothing else matters. 

Except that sumo is not just a sport. 

[sekitori 492]

3 hours ago, sekitori said:

These people should be reminded that the only sport where points for actual results and "style points" are combined is ski jumping. As long as a rikishi wins and does it legally, nothing else matters. 

 

1 hour ago, Sakura said:

Except that sumo is not just a sport. 

I never used the phrase "just a sport" to describe sumo. Although it has roots putting it beyond the realm of sport, sumo still basically consists of competition between two individuals. Although certain aspects of winning such as harite slaps to the face and henkas may be frowned upon by purists, the fact remains that they're completely legal. If people object to their use, they can try to have the rules changed. If that doesn't work, their other option is to stay silent. The problem is that purists always have something to say. They don't stay quiet very long. 

[Asashosakari 19,653]

24 minutes ago, sekitori said:

I never used the phrase "just a sport" to describe sumo. Although it has roots putting it beyond the realm of sport, sumo still basically consists of competition between two individuals. Although certain aspects of winning such as harite slaps to the face and henkas may be frowned upon by purists, the fact remains that they're completely legal. If people object to their use, they can try to have the rules changed. If that doesn't work, their other option is to stay silent. The problem is that purists always have something to say. They don't stay quiet very long. 

False dilemma. Quite obviously there's a third viable option since that's exactly what's being done here: Say something and hope the competitors take it to heart and refrain voluntarily. In any case, while you didn't write "just a sport", you did write that if it's legal then "nothing else matters", which is very much a just-a-sport-ish thing to say, so I don't quite know why you were objecting to Sakura's characterization of your comment.

[dada78641 884]

As far as the rikishi are concerned, it is (or should be) "just a sport", in that they shouldn't let considerations of aesthetics invade their concentration during a match. Let others worry about that stuff, and just let the rikishi do their thing.

[shumitto 418]

It is evident that Hakuho is cutting some corners. How many times did he avoid a head-on tachiai ? When he didn't, a sidestep was probably the second thing he did.

It is not some new behavior. He has been overusing the hatakikomi for quite some time and has been duly criticized for it before. It is not something random either. He employs such tactics whenever the chance of losing is higher than average. He did it on Tochiozan when the Japanese was genki, he has done it a few times after losing to Yoshikaze just once.

If it is true that Hakuho sidesteps or pulls to avoid exposing himself, then the fact that he has done it so many times this basho must be interpreted as a bad sign.

The Yokozuna must be a role model, like many public figures in Japanese society and societies in general. He must be strong, have technique, hinkaku among other things. When giving an interview, he sits up straight, rests the palms of his hands on his laps and open his legs while talking calmly, in a composed manner. He acts as his own master. Aware of his role, he plays it.

After pulling a kind of henka on some rank-and-file, he knows he is not living up to expectations, hence the wry smile/grimace. He is supposed to ooze self-confidence and not act like this.

Even if the critic won't change anything, I find it appropriate and necessary. Not saying anything was not an actual choice.

 

[Morty 1,505]

Regardless of what he is doing Hakuho keeps winning. He just had back to back yushos long after everybody was saying he was past it. We are not there yet, but in five years time when he is gone we will be marvelling at his adaptability and his capacity to change his style to compensate for a buggered elbow and other chronic injuries. He is in that rare echelon of athletes that is so far above their peers as to put them in another realm in terms of competition. Hakuho is to sumo as Eddie Merckx was to cycling, as Don Bradman to cricket, as Michael Jordan to basketball, as Serena Williams and Roger Federer to tennis, as Kelly Slater and Layne Beachly to surfing, as Babe Ruth to baseball, as Wayne Gretzky to hockey, etc. He isn't just a normal rikishi. He is in the pantheon of names of people who transcend their chosen sport by being so much better than everyone else as to be untouchable.Who cares what the YDC says - I just want to make the most of watching his superlative skill while he is still here. 

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,276]

The YDC, NSK, and rijichou all set up paradoxical requirements for the yokozuna. Fighting in a sub optimal way with many strategic avenues removed while the expectation of 12 wins Basho after Basho against the best sekitori looms. Going all out every match while remaining calm in the milliseconds afterwards while the brain is flooded with adrenaline and endorphins. Expectation to represent in every Basho and avoid injury but going all out every tachiai.

 

Nobody but a robot is going to fulfill all these and it's up to the yokozuna to balance it out. Harumafuji has developed his own specialized tachiai for example. And, for a daiyokozuna, hasn't he earned his right to give some input of what a yokozuna should be? Certainly insulting gyoji and shinpan is not ideal but it shows he cares about the result as a sport and makes it clear that his results are determined on the dohyo.

[Churaumi 745]

People aren't meant to be yokozuna for as long as possible. They are meant to be yokozuna for as long as they can uphold the expectations placed on them. It's an honorific title that can't be earned by fulfilling a checklist of accomplishments, it's bestowed for remarkable accomplishments on top of a career judged worthy. As such, expectations are different for each rikishi. The expectations are high because they are supposed to represent the best in sportsmanship, as well as Japanese culture. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it's sporting to do so. That's why I get disappointed when Hakuho does cheap sumo. He still routinely shows he doesn't need to. When he genuinely needs to, he should go.

[WAKATAKE 2,671]

1 hour ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

Nobody but a robot is going to fulfill all these and it's up to the yokozuna to balance it out. Harumafuji has developed his own specialized tachiai for example. And, for a daiyokozuna, hasn't he earned his right to give some input of what a yokozuna should be? Certainly insulting gyoji and shinpan is not ideal but it shows he cares about the result as a sport and makes it clear that his results are determined on the dohyo.

Might you be confusing Harumafuji for Hakuho? I can't remember the last time that Harumafuji did something to really offend the brass in the NSK.

[sekitori 492]

9 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

 In any case, while you didn't write "just a sport", you did write that if it's legal then "nothing else matters", which is very much a just-a-sport-ish thing to say, so I don't quite know why you were objecting to Sakura's characterization of your comment.

I didn't realize that "if something is legal, nothing else matters" is "very much a sport-ish thing to say". I didn't realize that if something is legal, it seems to apply basically to sports. In fact, I have absolutely no idea what the phrase, "just-a-sport-ish thing to say" means.  I never hear of the word "sport-ish" before. I looked it up on the Internet and I couldn't find it. It apparently didn't exist until it appeared in this thread. Coining a brand new word is a first for this group. I now realize one thing. The use of the word "sport-ish" shouldn't apply to sumo. It just isn't very "sumo-ish".

Someone else used the phrase, "It's a sport after all". I didn't. While I did use the word "sport", I did so in relation to something else, not sumo. What I do object to is someone quoting words I never said and attributing them to me.