Takayoshitoshi scandal

[rhyen 1,834]

30 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

I must find a way to work 'boomerang of regret' into conversation from now on.

 

Still no confirmed indication of a police report having been filed.  If one has been, I would be curious to know who did the honours.  

No way would a police report have been filed. The victim is probably also in the Takanohana stable and the oyakata would have stopped such a move.
The absence of the police report is probably the only thing that will decide Takayoshitoshi's fate after the basho.

Even in today's news report, Takanohana was downplaying the severity of the injury when questioned by the media.
 

[Yatagarasu 352]

6 minutes ago, rhyen said:

No way would a police report have been filed. The victim is probably also in the Takanohana stable and the oyakata would have stopped such a move.
The absence of the police report is probably the only thing that will decide Takayoshitoshi's fate after the basho.

Even in today's news report, Takanohana was downplaying the severity of the injury when questioned by the media.

Presumably the police can unilaterally open an investigation without a report, especially as the matter has been reported at length in the national press?  If Takanohana has actually obstructed the tsukebito from making one (assuming he is from the same heya) then that is a disgrace, not to mention profoundly hypocritical.  What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, regardless of the level of injury.

[Kintamayama 45,082]

11 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

From the fact that it hasn't been specifically mentioned (that I've seen), can we assume that the tsukebito in question is also a Takanohana-beya rikishi? Given that the stable has 4 sekitori and 5 lower-rankers, it would otherwise be possible that he's from someplace else.

It's apparently somebody ranked in jonidan, in any case. I suppose it won't be too long until we find out anyway, given that the injuries sustained will either lead to kyujo or a very noticeably disarranged rikishi...

I read that he is NOT from Takanohana beya, but I forgot where.

[Kintamayama 45,082]

6 hours ago, yutarotanaka said:

Sad... just sad...

The NSK should be stepping up their measures to prevent violence within their members. At the very least place safeguards that will deter anybody from committing violent acts. Specially within the venues of the bashos. If they can't even prevent these types of incidents happening there, what more in the heyas themselves where, as we suspect, a lot of things are dealt with in house away from the public eye and hushed up. How can the sport of sumo grow and attract young ones to join in if their safety and security can't be guaranteed. Maybe sumo is a different world than other sports or the real world, but in the context of being a human, this is just a no-no.

I was also looking forward to seeing the twins reach the top division and do well there. That may very well be an impossible scenario now.

Oh, come now. We have on court violence in basketball and on-field violence in baseball . this time it was some idiot with an ego slapping someone around, just like it happens  on live TV everywhere, and those aren't even combat sports..

Edited March 19, 2018 by Kintamayama

[Flohru 176]

9 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Oh, come now. We have on court violence in basketball and on-field violence in baseball . this time it was some idiot with an ego slapping someone around, just like it happens  on live TV everywhere, and these aren't even combat sports..

True, there is violence in every sports and someone watching e.g. ice hockey may find the calls for a police investigation in this case rather absurd. But then I guess it makes a difference if two (or more) athletes are fighting each other on (theoretically) equal terms or if one guy is simply beaten up by his senior. I assume that NBA or MLB would have a serious problem, too, if, say, a junior player is beaten up by a veteran because he failed to hand over a water bottle or a towel in time, at least if this is perceived to be a structural issue.

[Kintamayama 45,082]

18 minutes ago, Flohru said:

True, there is violence in every sports and someone watching e.g. ice hockey may find the calls for a police investigation in this case rather absurd. But then I guess it makes a difference if two (or more) athletes are fighting each other on (theoretically) equal terms or if one guy is simply beaten up by his senior. I assume that NBA or MLB would have a serious problem, too, if, say, a junior player is beaten up by a veteran because he failed to hand over a water bottle or a towel in time, at least if this is perceived to be a structural issue.

I'm not sure western sports have a structural issue based on seniority. It's a sumo thing for sure,  but i'm not sure it makes a difference if a rookie in baseball or basketball hits a veteran or vice versa. It has happened in the past, i'm sure. And I'm positive that bullying in the clubhouse exists quite commonly in both sports, if we're on that subject.

[Flohru 176]

9 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

I'm not sure western sports have a structural issue based on seniority. It's a sumo thing for sure,  but i'm not sure it makes a difference if a rookie in baseball or basketball hits a veteran or vice versa. It has happened in the past, i'm sure. And I'm positive that bullying in the clubhouse exists quite commonly in both sports, if we're on that subject.

You're right, obviously, though I am unsure whether "bullying in the clubhouse" in western sports would (nowadays) include the kind of a blunt punishment beating that seems to have taken place here. In any case I just wanted to point out that it is problematic to compare cases of on-/ and off-court fights between athletes in any sports with what Takayoshitoshi did.

 

[Kintamayama 45,082]

Just now, Flohru said:

You're right, obviously, though I am unsure whether "bullying in the clubhouse" in western sports would (nowadays) include the kind of a blunt punishment beating that seems to have taken place here. In any case I just wanted to point out that it is problematic to compare cases of on-/ and off-court fights between athletes in any sports with what Takayoshitoshi did.

 

How is it different from a clubhouse brawl in the dugout, where a veteran player attacks a rookie, for instance.? I understand the difference in every aspect between sumo and baseball  but in this specific case, it was an outburst of one guy against his subordinate, where other people could see, not the "behind heya doors classic bottle to the head/baseball bat to the back" variety. I'm pretty sure there will be no retirement or banishment. I just feel we've lost proportions lately. He should be punished for being an asshole and we should all get on with it.

[Yukiarashi 195]

1 hour ago, Kintamayama said:

I read that he is NOT from Takanohana beya, but I forgot where.

Jd27 Amamisho was kyujo yesterday from Sakaigawa any chance it was him? He won on day 8, though I didn't see his match.

[Flohru 176]

33 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

How is it different from a clubhouse brawl in the dugout, where a veteran player attacks a rookie, for instance.? I understand the difference in every aspect between sumo and baseball  but in this specific case, it was an outburst of one guy against his subordinate, where other people could see, not the "behind heya doors classic bottle to the head/baseball bat to the back" variety. I'm pretty sure there will be no retirement or banishment. I just feel we've lost proportions lately. He should be punished for being an asshole and we should all get on with it.

Not different at all (at least if the rookie does not strike back which, I believe, many would do nowadays). I understood your original comment differently and thought that you are comparing on- and off-court violence (= fights between athletes) in western sports with the case of this beating and I disagreed on that. I do agree that we have lost proportions, mainly due to all the recent scandals - but also due to the fact that there was (and, unfortunately still seems to be) a structural issue with and a culture of "hierachy-based" violence in sumo.

[Kintamayama 45,082]

51 minutes ago, Yukiarashi said:

Jd27 Amamisho was kyujo yesterday from Sakaigawa any chance it was him? He won on day 8, though I didn't see his match.

Has to be from Takanohana Ichimon. As he is probably Makushita or lower he could have not been scheduled for a bout today, or go kyujo tomorrow, or just go on. Why should he go kyujo and lose rank for being the victim?

[Atenzan 1,076]

If I may add my 2 yen, I do think that these stories reaching us are overall a good thing. What with the Harumafuji debacle and the stories that ran in the papers, it's extremely unlikely that violence in sumo is on the rise. What's going on is that violent incidents are being reported much more. I would think that there were just as many incidents like this - if not more - when I started following sumo two and a half years ago. We were just unaware of what, who, how. The ongoing paradigm shift is the reporting, not the violence. And thanks to that, sooner or later rikishi will learn that beating the crap out of people is not acceptable anymore. 

[Yukiarashi 195]

32 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Has to be from Takanohana Ichimon. As he is probably Makushita or lower he could have not been scheduled for a bout today, or go kyujo tomorrow, or just go on. Why should he go kyujo and lose rank for being the victim?

Because his face has been deformed, wouldn't be an investigative kyujo more than an injury. Not too familiar with ichimon connections but Sakaigawa was who admonished him so thought maybe there was connection. Plus I heard it was a Jonidan rikishi somewhere too, I guess we'll be on the hunt for purple-faced beaten rikishi the next couple of days. 

[maorencze 144]

3 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

3 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Oh, come now. We have on court violence in basketball and on-field violence in baseball . this time it was some idiot with an ego slapping someone around, just like it happens  on live TV everywhere, and those aren't even combat sports..

We got on court violence in sumo, even (or at least sometimes, some guys are too gentle when wrestling)

Edited March 19, 2018 by maorencze

[Rocks 1,809]

1 hour ago, Yukiarashi said:

Because his face has been deformed, wouldn't be an investigative kyujo more than an injury. Not too familiar with ichimon connections but Sakaigawa was who admonished him so thought maybe there was connection. Plus I heard it was a Jonidan rikishi somewhere too, I guess we'll be on the hunt for purple-faced beaten rikishi the next couple of days. 

The descriptions aren't too exact but from what there is it seems liked he got a split lip. The cut would be inside for that and icing would take most, if not all, the swelling away quickly. I don't think you'll see much more than a puffy lip.

[dada78641 884]

It's four in the morning, the end of Decem... I mean, time for the Takanohana scandal road show.

 

[Yukiarashi 195]

On ‎3‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 03:44, Kaninoyama said:

Here's a quick translated summary of the juicy bits of the Asahi article:

According to witnesses, following his 8th day bout, Takayoshitoshi of Takanohana-beya punched his tsukebito in the face several (5-6) times in the rikishi prep room while cussing him out. 

The face of the beaten tsukebito was bloody, cut, and swollen, and he was observed spitting blood in the bathroom. There was also blood splattered near the entrance to the room.

The reason given for the beating was that the tsukebito was slow in informing Takayoshitoshi to head to the dohyo. Rikishi who were in the room at the time observed the violence, but none made an effort to stop it. 

 

1 hour ago, Rocks said:

The descriptions aren't too exact but from what there is it seems liked he got a split lip. The cut would be inside for that and icing would take most, if not all, the swelling away quickly. I don't think you'll see much more than a puffy lip.

This is what I was going from, I guess it sounds worse than it might actually be I suppose.

[Kintamayama 45,082]

3 hours ago, Yukiarashi said:

Because his face has been deformed, wouldn't be an investigative kyujo more than an injury. Not too familiar with ichimon connections but Sakaigawa was who admonished him so thought maybe there was connection. Plus I heard it was a Jonidan rikishi somewhere too, I guess we'll be on the hunt for purple-faced beaten rikishi the next couple of days. 

Deformed? A lip bleed. 

[Yukiarashi 195]

7 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Deformed? A lip bleed. 

Yeah I see now, the original reports seemed way worse.

Quote

The face of the beaten tsukebito was bloody, cut, and swollen, and he was observed spitting blood in the bathroom. There was also blood splattered near the entrance to the room.

 

[Kintamayama 45,082]

OK, more info. the tsukebito was from the heya. Now that there are 4 sekitori and only 5 non sekitori that are used as tsukebitos, the heya is short-handed, hence the tsukebito not being able to do his job. Takanohana has never asked any other heya from his Ichimon for help. "He has never asked me to help out with young rikishi as tsukebito. It's the first time I hear about this problem.." said an Oyakata that belongs to Takanohana Ichimon. Also, after all that happened during the election and Tatsunami Oyakata 's public distancing himself from the Ichimon and the general falling apart of the Ichimon, his pride wouldn't allow him to ask for help, said someone else.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Kintamayama

[Asashosakari 19,282]

4 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Has to be from Takanohana Ichimon. As he is probably Makushita or lower he could have not been scheduled for a bout today, or go kyujo tomorrow, or just go on. Why should he go kyujo and lose rank for being the victim?

As mentioned he's supposedly ranked in jonidan. Takanohana-beya has three guys down there, two were active on Day 9 and I didn't really spot anything untoward with them. Number 3 will be active in a few hours.

Sanspo had a brief interview transcript with Takanohana earlier today which included something like (from memory): "I asked him if he wants to continue to compete in the basho, and he expressed his desire to do so."

Edit: Here.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Asashosakari

[Yukiarashi 195]

Takaseiryu?

I suppose he'll look far less damaged than Yoshikaze most the time.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Yukiarashi

[Jakusotsu 5,953]

12 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

OK, more info. the tsukebito was from the heya. Now that there are 4 sekitori and only 5 non sekitori that are used as tsukebitos, the heya is short-handed, hence the tsukebito not being able to do his job. Takanohana has never asked any other heya from his Ichimon for help. "He has never asked me to help out with young rikishi as tsukebito. It's the first time I hear about this problem.." said an Oyakata that belongs to Takanohana Ichimon. Also, after all that happened during the election and Tatsunami Oyakata 's public distancing himself from the Ichimon and the general falling apart of the Ichimon, his pride wouldn't allow him to ask for help, said someone else.

So the prodigy who wants to change the universe can't even get his own heya running, let alone stop the violence.

Yeah, just because all the bad guys are out there to get him, I know...

[Kintamayama 45,082]

25 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

So the prodigy who wants to change the universe can't even get his own heya running, let alone stop the violence.

Yeah, just because all the bad guys are out there to get him, I know...

He can't get the heya running because, what can he do, nearly 50% of his rikishi are sekitori, probably due to bad coaching and generally being  bad at everything..

[Rocks 1,809]

37 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

He can't get the heya running because, what can he do, nearly 50% of his rikishi are sekitori, probably due to bad coaching and generally being  bad at everything..

He is good at instilling confidence in his rikishi. Teaching them about the attitude, in a good way,  needed to be a champ and intimidate on the dohyo. All his sekitori have it but it seems to come out  too strong in the brothers, especially Takagenji.  I'm still surprised it was Takayoshitoshi and not Takagenji who pulled this garbage.