Nagoya Basho 2018 Discussion [SPOILERS]

[Morty 1,496]

2 hours ago, Bugman said:

As someone who's been away a long time i'm impressed with Tochinoshin, and interested to find he is Ozeki rank now.  I could well be wrong as i'm very inexperienced, but from what i remember a few years ago, he was a good rikishi with occasional flashes of brilliance and had the odd good tournament, but he lacked consistency and confidence sometimes, he looks highly improved in those areas.

Welcome back Bugman, good to see you! And yes, Tochinoshin has gone from a joi whipping boy to a potential Yokozuna in what seems like a very short period of time. He managed to get both physically healthy, and over any mental doubts he previously had, at the same time, and is reaping the results. 

[ALAKTORN 346]

2 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

What’s your cutoff for “current” so that it becomes “the past”? The previous three tournaments this year are also technically in the past, yet you seem to be treating them as relevant to right now. You only need to go back one tournament further than Hatsu which you reference there to find him winning a yusho. He won three last year, including a zensho. He’s won three of the last seven completed tournaments. Are they not recent enough to be relevant?

Years are a big thing in sumō. In 2018 he can’t catch a break.

[Amamaniac 2,079]

8 hours ago, Benevolance said:

Hakuho could easily stretch his remaining career over the time required to reach the olympics. It's 11 tournaments away. The top division is so depleted, the Y/O ranks are going to be filled with guys that Hak can reasonably compete with for the foreseeable future. He just does what he's doing - stick it out to win a tournament or two a year, withdraw from the others early on, he'll be seen as generally competing without actually doing so all year long...

I fully agree with your assessment.  But I think we can all agree that Hakuho's days of dominance are over.  He won't be winning the most annual wins title ever again IMHO.

[Amamaniac 2,079]

Chiyonokuni has been fighting relatively well this year.  Does he have what it takes to hand Kakuryu his third straight loss (i.e., gold star loss)?  What odds are the cyber bookies placing on that potential eventuality?  There won't be any purple zabuton left in Dolphins Arena!   And what will Kakuryu do if he does surrender three straight kinboshi?  

 

[Amamaniac 2,079]

Chiyoshoma landed a stiff harite on Yutakayama in their bout on Day 5.  Yutakayama showed remarkable sportsmanship not resorting to dameoshi at the end, and even offered his hand to help his defeated opponent back up on the ring.  #respect

Edited July 13, 2018 by Amamaniac

[Rocks 1,809]

8 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Chiyonokuni has been fighting relatively well this year.  Does he have what it takes to hand Kakuryu his third straight loss (i.e., gold star loss)?  What odds are the cyber bookies placing on that potential eventuality?  There won't be any purple zabuton left in Dolphins Arena!   And what will Kakuryu do if he does surrender three straight kinboshi?  

 

Chiyonokuni is a lock tonight. Kakuryu went kyujo.

[Amamaniac 2,079]

13 hours ago, Rocks said:

Chiyonokuni is a lock tonight. Kakuryu went kyujo.

I guess Chiyoshoma (I mean Chiyonokuni)  misses out on that sweet kinboshi, though...

Edited July 13, 2018 by Amamaniac

[Rocks 1,809]

3 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

I guess Chiyoshoma misses out on that sweet kinboshi, though...

True, no kinbohsi for fusen. Still a win. And there's a couple Kadoban Ozeki who have 2 much easier matches to win to get their KK this basho. So they get their benefit. 

[Amamaniac 2,079]

21 minutes ago, Rocks said:

And there's a couple Kadoban Ozeki who have 2 much easier matches to win to get their KK this basho. So they get their benefit. 

Another potential benefit is that much of the spill over kensho will probably go Tochinoshin's way, especially if he keeps winning!  But with no Yokozunas left, all three active Ozekis will each benefit from several juicy final bout kensho purses!!

Edited July 13, 2018 by Amamaniac

[Gurowake 4,088]

2 hours ago, Morty said:

Welcome back Bugman, good to see you! And yes, Tochinoshin has gone from a joi whipping boy to a potential Yokozuna in what seems like a very short period of time. He managed to get both physically healthy, and over any mental doubts he previously had, at the same time, and is reaping the results. 

Tochinoshin generally was able to beat those worse than him consistently as long as he wasn't injured.  Now that most of the rikishi that were better than him are gone, injured, or just plain past their prime (or some combination of those), he's sitting at the top of the pack.  Good Yotsu-zumo has much better consistency than oshi-zumo, but doesn't work very well when you're outmatched as Tochinoshin was against Hakuho and the others before the last few last basho.  

Edited July 13, 2018 by Gurowake

[specialweek 2 136]

54 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

I guess Chiyoshoma misses out on that sweet kinboshi, though...

What does this mean?

[Tiger Tanaka 225]

With Hakuho and Kakuryu out now, it would be extremely disappointing if Mitakeumi didn't end with 11+ wins and the start of an ozeki run. Let's go Mita!!!!

[Gurowake 4,088]

18 minutes ago, specialweek 2 said:

What does this mean?

It means that someone confused Chiyonokuni and Chiyoshoma.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

2 hours ago, ALAKTORN said:

Years are a big thing in sumō. In 2018 he can’t catch a break.

It all seems a bit arbitrary. 2018 = bad. The last three months of 2017 when he won two tournaments = doesn’t matter.

[Jabbamaru 167]

Hak and Kak in the first week? Bummer, man...What a bummer.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

2 hours ago, ALAKTORN said:

Years are a big thing in sumō. In 2018 he can’t catch a break.

It all seems a bit arbitrary. 2018 = bad. The last three months of 2017 when he won two tournaments = doesn’t matter.

[Chinonofuji 35]

1 hour ago, Gurowake said:

Tochinoshin generally was able to beat those worse than him consistently as long as he wasn't injured.  Now that most of the rikishi that were better than him are gone, injured, or just plain past their prime (or some combination of those), he's sitting at the top of the pack.  Good Yotsu-zumo has much better consistency than oshi-zumo, but doesn't work very well when you're outmatched as Tochinoshin was against Hakuho and the others before the last few last basho.  

Forgive me if I'm misremembering, as I don't come by this site as often as I would like, but didn't someone (Doitsuyama?) produce for some time an excellent matrix showing historic strength ratings of rikishi?  I'd love to see where Tochinoshin fits in there, now, particularly to help answer whether he's improved or whether the competition has gotten weaker (or a combo, as you note). 

[WAKATAKE 2,661]

What are the odds that you end up getting two fusen over two yokozuna in the same basho?

[Jakusotsu 5,987]

42 minutes ago, WAKATAKE said:

What are the odds that you end up getting two fusen over two yokozuna in the same basho?

Not as low as they used to be.

Edited July 13, 2018 by Jakusotsu

[ALAKTORN 346]

2 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

It all seems a bit arbitrary. 2018 = bad. The last three months of 2017 when he won two tournaments = doesn’t matter.

It’s not arbitrary. Kisenosato got promoted to yokozuna also thanks to his yearly W–L record.

[Yumenofude 11]

Watching Day Six of the Nagoya bashō - is this the right place for natter?

(I'm watching o-sumo with the loving spouse, so it's okay if no one's around to share observances with. However, I do want to say how sad I am Ishiura didn't win his bout today with Meisei.)

[Rocks 1,809]

I don't know what is going on with Yoshikaze but he should just withdraw already. He hasn't been in a single match.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

1 hour ago, ALAKTORN said:

It’s not arbitrary. Kisenosato got promoted to yokozuna also thanks to his yearly W–L record.

So now a year does count? I’m confused. Because if we’re counting a full year then that takes us back to July 2017 and Hakuhō winning two yusho.

[word20 21]

Another surprising day when Tochinoshin lost and now it is only Mitakeumi in the lead with 6-0

[Eikokurai 3,437]

1 hour ago, word20 said:

Another surprising day when Tochinoshin lost and now it is only Mitakeumi in the lead with 6-0

It’s strange to see, and I expect him to trip up eventually, but it’d be great to see Mitakeumi make a serious yusho challenge at last. Like the England football team in the World Cup, he probably won’t get a chance as good as this for a while. Three Yokozuna out before he had to face any of them, two of three Ozeki not looking particularly spectacular, a fellow Sekiwake who is already well off the pace and showing makekoshi form right now, and he’s already beaten both komusubi. It’s there for the taking if he can deal with Tochinoshin.