Regarding Non-Japanese Sumo

[Uinseann 2]

Hello all !

First of all, I want to say I tried doing a search in the forum but obviously, typing "Sumo", all around the "World", and non-"japanese" yield way to many answers. Doing a google search is also hazardous since, many sources, many differents opinions.
At first glance, it is not what I'm looking for ! So sorry if there's a topic for that, feel free to direct me there and close this one.

I've heard of "professionnals" Sumo club around the world (like that one in France that opened recently). I discovered through my mother that in Germany, Sumo seems not only popular but do also yield champions. Now I can only take her words for it as I do not speak that much German but here are some links and my question will come next.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Köppen

This is Sandra Köppen wikipedia page, as you can see, it says she won a Gold medal in "Sumo wrestling" at the 2005 World Games. Now I do not know anything about that World Games but Japan participate.

https://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/sport/Diese-17-jaehrige-Deutsche-will-Sumo-Weltmeisterin-werden-id35079432.html

This article is about Jasmin Thienemann a young Sumo wrestler in Germany and I saw on differents articles that she also won medals. There was another female wrestler but I can't find the information anymore.

And lastly,

https://www.bz-berlin.de/berlin/berlins-einziger-sumo-ringer-findet-keinen-gegner

This is about Florian Ebert, a german baker who also won medals in differents tournament. Now the tricky part is the point of the article, he can not find any partner (sponsors I guess) to practice and go further.

As I understood it, they all want to one day participate in Japanese Sumo. My question is : What is the stance of the Japan Sumo Association regarding the practice of Sumo outside what I assume is the only recognized and "professionnal" sport ? I once asked about Western European wrestlers and people told me there weren't any, which contradicts all those medals given.

We all know how difficult it is to even watch Japanese Sumo online and it leads people into thinking that Japan don't want to export it.

That's obviously untrue as the International Olympic Committee recognize the sport, Japan do participate in Sumo at the World Games and Sumo happens to be covered (or was at least) on differents TV network around the world. Not to mention the professionnals wrestlers from various nationalities.

Also, Hakuho training Mongolians really looks as "cheap" as the French and German training regarding the infrastructure and absence of the traditionnal surrounding.

Now, take note that I am absolutely not familiar with the ins and out, I watch the bashos but I've yet to learn almost everything. Take also note that I'm not trying to be contemptuous when putting quotation marks around professionnal, nor am I trying to offend peoples or countries when saying training look cheap (for a lack of correct word); I'm simply wondering what is officially regarded as, you could say, "True professionnal Sumo".

I thank you for your time into reading and I if you do, answering and hope I'm not causing too much trouble :)

[Uinseann 2]

I see the thread was moved, I'm sorry for the inconvenience. It seems I'm unable to do a simple search (or edit) :p

I'll then investigate further as I now know where to look, thanks.

[Gurowake 4,100]

The Japan Sumo Association (NIhon Sumo Kyokai, NSK) organizes the only tournaments that can be reasonably considered professional.  If there are prizes at any other Sumo events, they are nominal and most participants are not making their living doing Sumo.  Rikishi in the NSK live their entire life doing Sumo, and are absolutely 100% professional rikishi.  OK, maybe some of them are really professional cooks and janitors, but that's not relevant - those guys still train and compete just like the ones who are actually good at it.

That said, the NSK exists more to keep the tradition of doing Sumo alive, and runs spectator tournaments to generate revenue so that rikishi can continue to train, and offer enough money in compensation along with the ability to become elders at a reasonable salary such that the quality of the tournaments is high enough that people remain interested.  But other than the top few rikishi, none of them make anything close to what the average baseball player makes in Japan, and only the top 70 (sekitori) make anything that could be considered a salary.  Nevertheless, rikishi in all divisions are considered professionals.

Edited July 22, 2018 by Gurowake

[Gurowake 4,100]

As to the NSK's stance on it, they don't have one.  They run their organization and ignore everyone else.  The only connection with amateur sumo they have is giving dispensation to some high-performing rikishi in the major Japanese amateur tournaments.  But they don't care one bit about sumo anywhere else in the world, and quite frankly, sumo outside of Japan is of very low quality.

Edited July 22, 2018 by Gurowake

[Uinseann 2]

Ah ! Well, that's exactly what I wanted to know.

People kept telling me the Western European Sumo was really good (since, you know, they are said to be professionnals here) and showed me a video of a rikishi grabbing another one in a sort of supplex move. I really wondered how that could be considered Sumo since it's really just wrestling with mawashi-like around the waist.

Thank you for the answer, that clarifies everything =)

[Gurowake 4,100]

If there are "professional wrestlers" who claim to do Sumo that are outside of Japan, they are doing the same type of theater that Vince McMahon does.

[Asashosakari 19,651]

38 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

As to the NSK's stance on it, they don't have one.  They run their organization and ignore everyone else.  The only connection with amateur sumo they have is giving dispensation to some high-performing rikishi in the major Japanese amateur tournaments.

This is really, really nitpicky, but the NSK also sponsors small awards (medals, trophies) for some local sumo competitions...I think up to high school age only. There's a page somewhere on the Kyokai site that details the requirements for tournament organizers to apply for those financial assistance packages.

And use of the Kokugikan is probably free for some events - almost certainly for the national wampaku. Not sure if/how much the Nihon Sumo Renmei has to pay for using it for the university championships etc., but I wouldn't be surprised if that's on a friendly deal, too, compared to what e.g. concert or pro-wrestling promoters have to pay.

[Uinseann 2]

1 minute ago, Asashosakari said:

This is really, really nitpicky, but the NSK also sponsors small awards (medals, trophies) for some local sumo competitions...

But they wouldn't get involved with awarding medals/sponsoring to tournament held around the world ? So, basically it's like Gurowake said, what is outside of Japan should not be regarded as professionnal ?

[Asashosakari 19,651]

7 hours ago, Uinseann said:

But they wouldn't get involved with awarding medals/sponsoring to tournament held around the world ? So, basically it's like Gurowake said, what is outside of Japan should not be regarded as professionnal ?

Yes, as far as I'm aware the NSK doesn't make any sort of contribution to sumo outside of Japan, at least not at the organizational level. (I have no idea what individual members might be doing.)

That doesn't have anything to do with why sumo outside of Japan isn't professional, though. There's nothing stopping anybody from trying to start a professional sumo organization in Europe, or America, or anywhere else. In fact, it's been tried before. It just doesn't work because there's too little interest by the public in competitive non-Japanese sumo. It doesn't bring in the money needed to pay the wrestlers.

As Gurowake insinuated, if there's somebody making a living as a sumo wrestler abroad (and Byamba most likely does, or did), it's not by competing as a sumo wrestler, it's by portraying a sumo wrestler (to the media, in public appearances, etc).

Edited July 22, 2018 by Asashosakari