UDH Aki Basho 2018

[Tamanaogijima 756]

Hello gamers,

the UDH entry form is ready now and waiting for your selections. Rules in a (very small) nutshell: Guess the thirteen makuuchi rikishi you expect to have the fewest wins this basho.

You may submit your entry at http://udh.seisa.de/udh_index.html.

Once you have selected your team, please root for them as much as you can. The game was not intended to honor any failure, but to stimulate interest in the less successful rikishi.

The deadline for your entries will be the first day of the basho (Sunday, September 09th) at 12pm Japanese Time.

Good luck!

 

Link to the latest available standings >>> http://udh.seisa.de/udh_stand.html

[Tamanaogijima 756]

Selection Stats

Day 1 Standings

Day 2 Standings

Day 3 Standings

Day 4 Standings

Day 5 Standings

Day 6 Standings

Day 7 Standings

Day 8 Standings

Day 9 Standings

Day 10 Standings

Day 11 Standings

Day 12 Standings

Day 13 Standings

Day 14 Standings

Final Standings

Edited September 23, 2018 by Tamanaogijima

[Tamanaogijima 756]

It is up until now that I didn't realize that a) one of our yokozuna has retired and that b) he even was the senior incumbent one.

Flohru has held the rank since 2005.09 and with 12 years and 10 months of service he has also been the second longest serving one altogether. There are also two yusho and four jun-yusho to his name, the first one right at the beginning of the millennium (2002) and just one year after entering, the last one only one year ago.

I look forward to see the rise of Flohru (II).

[Fukurou 534]

19 hours ago, Tamanaogijima said:

Link to the latest available standings >>> http://udh.seisa.de/udh_stand.html

I'm seeing the ranks only, not player-shikona. The text-only table shows me column headings only, again no shikona.  I have dumped my cache.

[Tamanaogijima 756]

On 30.8.2018 at 15:03, Fukurou said:

I'm seeing the ranks only, not player-shikona. The text-only table shows me column headings only, again no shikona.  I have dumped my cache.

And I have dumped my brain, it seems. Forgotten (again) to upload banzuke. Will add them this weekend.

[Tamanaogijima 756]

And now I have dumped the banzuke files where they belong to :-)

[Tamanaogijima 756]

Selection Stats

Day 1 Standings

[Tamanaogijima 756]

Day 2 Standings

Day 3 Standings

[Tamanaogijima 756]

Day 4 Standings

Day 5 Standings

[Ganzohnesushi 515]

I'm really surprised to find both Mariohana and Gonzaburow still at Yokozuna rank on the UDH Banzuke. How much worse do they have to score to lose their rank?

The record of Yokozuna Mariohana in the last 6 Basho: 6-9 (09/17), 12-3 (11/17), 0-15 (01/18), 10-5 (03/18), 0-15 (05/18), 3-12 (07/18). That is 31-59 in total over 6 Basho. What a shame. Yokozuna Gonzaburow achieved 43-47 in the same period.

And after 5 Days both are struggling again in Aki basho...

Ganzohnesushi

[Tamanaogijima 756]

Day 6 Standings

Day 7 Standings

Day 8 Standings

[Tamanaogijima 756]

On 13/09/2018 at 22:01, Ganzohnesushi said:

I'm really surprised to find both Mariohana and Gonzaburow still at Yokozuna rank on the UDH Banzuke. How much worse do they have to score to lose their rank?

Simply put: They are not as bad as you think they are. Your numbers are indeed correct -- but only as far as you decided to look back.

Mariohana had an absence in the seventh basho ago, and before that 15-0, 14-2, 13-2. #9 overall in 2017 with 4 kk out of 5 starts.

Gonzaburow also did rather well in the bashos before. 5 kk in 2017, 3rd overall. (2016 would have cost his scalp, though.)

UDH had no automatic demotion so far. Planned for a longer time, yes, but never uploaded. Done now. But even with the demotion rules, only Nagoya would have been the first basho to force an automatic demotion.

[Ganzohnesushi 515]

1 hour ago, Tamanaogijima said:

Simply put: They are not as bad as you think they are. Your numbers are indeed correct -- but only as far as you decided to look back.

Well, I did not look back any further as I don't think results from more than a year ago should be considered. A period over a full year (= 6 basho) should be sufficient to see whether a Yokozuna is performing good or not. The 45-45 rule which was implemented in Hoshitori is really fair (it is just average, not more, not less).

I never understood why we had up to nine Yokozuna in Hoshitori and up to seven Yokozuna in UDH. Ridiculous. This rank should be given only to the very best players and unlike in real Ozumo not a title for the rest of your life. It is easy to play the games even as an ex-Yokozuna.

Ganzohnesushi

[Tamanaogijima 756]

Day 9 Standings

Day 10 Standings

[Tamanaogijima 756]

On 16/09/2018 at 23:03, Ganzohnesushi said:

Well, I did not look back any further as I don't think results from more than a year ago should be considered. A period over a full year (= 6 basho) should be sufficient to see whether a Yokozuna is performing good or not.

I was rather referring to the "how much worse" part. Six basho are sufficient, I fully agree.

 

On 16/09/2018 at 23:03, Ganzohnesushi said:

I never understood why we had up to nine Yokozuna in Hoshitori and up to seven Yokozuna in UDH. Ridiculous. This rank should be given only to the very best players and unlike in real Ozumo not a title for the rest of your life. It is easy to play the games even as an ex-Yokozuna.

You have to put it into relation. UDH and also Hoshitori only have makuuchi (and a rudimental juryo for very bad records). 2 yokozuna in 42 real makuuchi rikishi makes 7 in 140-150 UDH players. So UDH is actually short of yokozunae at the moment :-) For superbanzuke purposes it is totally irrelevant how you call the top-42 of the games. Just count.

The founders of the games probably also had not in mind that those games would run for such a really long time. How could you probably foresee twenty years ago in the early ages of the internet that there would occur such a "yokozuna problem" at any point? As we know now, even without injury and age being an issue, game yokozuna do (re)act a bit differently.

[Ganzohnesushi 515]

1 hour ago, Tamanaogijima said:

You have to put it into relation. UDH and also Hoshitori only have makuuchi (and a rudimental juryo for very bad records). 2 yokozuna in 42 real makuuchi rikishi makes 7 in 140-150 UDH players. So UDH is actually short of yokozunae at the moment For superbanzuke purposes it is totally irrelevant how you call the top-42 of the games. Just count.

When was the last time UDH had 140-150 active players ...sigh...? I remember the days when I joined most of the games in Kyushu 2005. Number of players in SB games was on its peak. But even then we had only 4 or 5 Yokozuna in UDH while Banzuke Haru 2012 e.g., contained 92 Rikishi in total with 7 Yokozuna on top.

And of course the Superbanzuke was affected. Because eternal Yokozunae had their place reserved, regardless how bad they performed. A few of these guys were simply blocking some of the Top 42 ranks.

Ganzohnesushi

[Jakusotsu 5,969]

Sometimes I wonder if Profomisakari's unique approach to Banzuke making in Maegashira Game would benefit games like Hoshitori and UDH the most...

[Flohru 176]

12 hours ago, Tamanaogijima said:

The founders of the games probably also had not in mind that those games would run for such a really long time. How could you probably foresee twenty years ago in the early ages of the internet that there would occur such a "yokozuna problem" at any point? As we know now, even without injury and age being an issue, game yokozuna do (re)act a bit differently. 

Let me interrupt this discussion for a second to highlight what IMO is the most important thing mentioned: Thanks for still running UDH, Tamanaogijima (and everyone else involved in long-standing games such as TH, BS, SG, DSTS, ISP and so on). Personally, I feel there is way too much complaining and fussing in Sumo gaming lately.

As for the yokozuna question, I still fail to see any problem: Right now we are having a mere 2 yokozuna, so everything seems to be in order? Even the relation 7 yokozuna-92 players in 2012 mentioned by Ganzohnesushi seems okay to me, especially if it is only for a short time of transition. And as for their performance: In real sumo during the last six basho (Aki 2017-Nagoya 2018) our three current yokozuna had a combined 76 wins. Why would anyone be so keen to demand stricter guidelines for a fantasy game?

[Asashosakari 19,320]

12 hours ago, Flohru said:

Why would anyone be so keen to demand stricter guidelines for a fantasy game?

For one thing, career restarts are possible. I have absolutely no bad conscience about forcefully retiring yokozuna in "my" games. One can argue about the standards that should be used, but - I seem to recall from when Ganzohnesushi brought up the topic previously, that he had examples of TH/UDH yokozuna getting 4+ truly abysmal results in a row (on the order of 4-11 and worse every time), and that just shouldn't be on without repercussions.

FWIW, I do feel that the 45-45 standard is too tough for these two games where the scoring is done such that somebody will always get hit with absolutely terrible records. A 0-15 is awfully hard to compensate for, but still only constitutes one bad performance. I'd prefer a more qualitative accounting along the lines of the 4-MK-in-6-basho rule I'm using. (Replace 4 and 6 with other numbers as desired.)

Edited September 19, 2018 by Asashosakari

[Flohru 176]

Yes, I can very well live with other approaches in other games and would never dream to complain about them. Also, your reasoning seems absolutely sound to me. It is more the demanding of rule changes and/or yokozuna retirements that I cannot understand. UDH is running since 20 (?) years and, to me, that is worth much more than an "undeserving" yokozuna who could be retired.

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

4 hours ago, Flohru said:

Yes, I can very well live with other approaches in other games and would never dream to complain about them. Also, your reasoning seems absolutely sound to me. It is more the demanding of rule changes and/or yokozuna retirements that I cannot understand. UDH is running since 20 (?) years and, to me, that is worth much more than an "undeserving" yokozuna who could be retired.

Haha...perhaps it is Ganzo's brusque tone!? ;)

We all appreciate the games and the games masters, I think, for their long, selfless service. But how about if Ganzo had just 'suggested' rule changes? I think that asking for things to be re-considered is not an indication of disrespect for the games and those that run them, and I also think that 'fantasy games', while indeed just games, can be re-evaluated to make them fairer or more sensible, without the fear of the asker being chastised for taking them too seriously.

[Flohru 176]

7 hours ago, Pandaazuma said:

Haha...perhaps it is Ganzo's brusque tone!? ;)

We all appreciate the games and the games masters, I think, for their long, selfless service. But how about if Ganzo had just 'suggested' rule changes? I think that asking for things to be re-considered is not an indication of disrespect for the games and those that run them, and I also think that 'fantasy games', while indeed just games, can be re-evaluated to make them fairer or more sensible, without the fear of the asker being chastised for taking them too seriously.

You are right, maybe I am getting as old as the games and becoming rather grumpy myself! :)

Of course, re-evualating and discussing rules is legitimate and even important, especially in the case of "younger" games. It just seemed to me that while in theory we are all appreciating the work of the game masters, in practice there are lately more complaints (about "problems" that look very minor to me) than thanks in many game threads - and I am not singling out any individual player here.

[Ganzohnesushi 515]

Indeed, Pandaazuma is absolutely right when he  says I just had suggested rules changes. That was when Hoshitori was at its peak with 9 Yokozuna and nearly half of them were underperforming over a longer period. And as obviously none of them had the balls to retire voluntarily I had more or less carefully asked for a rule change. I made a few suggestions how the rules might be changed and after some modifications Doitsuyama finally implemented the current version for Hoshitori a couple of Basho ago.

Only when this was done I had asked our UDH gamemaster Tamanaogijima whether he could implement the same rule for UDH. As far as I can remember he mentioned in one of the UDH threads that he will check and adjust UDH rules accordingly. But this obviously has never happened. Perhaps I'm a bit impatient, that's why I asked very frankly "how much worse...?"

I really appreciate all the work that needs to be done and is done by several guys to keep the games running and I did not intend at all to complain. As you may know or not I'm contributing myself to the games as Banzuke maker for Odd Sumo, SalaryCap and ISP.

Ganzohnesushi

[Tamanaogijima 756]

First things first: The standings:

Day 11 Standings

Day 12 Standings

Day 13 Standings

Day 14 Standings

Final Standings

(Probably no one noticed that 11 an 12 were up since Thursday already... :-))

[Tamanaogijima 756]

With the new yokozuna ruke coming into effect mid-basho, I was looking forward how the yokozuna would end up (despite they could not do anything any more).

Mariohana ended up at 3-12 and would be toast anyway, regardless how long you would let a grandfather clause run.

Gonzaburow managed a narrow 8-7 and broke the looming 3-make-koshi streak. Although even a 15-0 in Kyushu will not secure 45 wins in 6 basho I decided to let him stay for now. The Kyushu performance will be the key -- 11 wins min.

(1 yokozuna on 60 active players is still two short, but I will live with that )

 

Almost all honours are a third-time affair. Only the Shin-sho (naturally 1st but especially today possible to be collected more than once by one person) and one jun-yusho (4th time) are out of the line.

Edited September 23, 2018 by Tamanaogijima