Takanohana resigns

[Yatagarasu 352]

14 hours ago, Yatagarasu said:

Apparently the forms are not the correct ones - the form transferring his deshi apparently was not countersigned by Chiganoura and therefore cannot officially be considered. 

My [very basic] understanding of this article is that Chiganoura has now countersigned the transfer form and accepted the deshi:  https://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20180926-00000064-dal-spo  Will gladly defer to more skilled Japanese speakers on the details.

[maorencze 144]

12 hours ago, Benevolance said:

I'd change the post, but getting the Czechs involved means this is an international conspiracy which is better gossip. 

Leave us out of this! Though, seriously, I'd love to see Takanoyama get ANY SORT of decent career, last I heard about him he was broke and struggling.

[Senkoho 552]

4 minutes ago, maorencze said:

Leave us out of this! Though, seriously, I'd love to see Takanoyama get ANY SORT of decent career, last I heard about him he was broke and struggling.

Source? 

[maorencze 144]

3 minutes ago, Senkoho said:

Source? 

I shall try make time to translate the article, got this issue of For Men magazine just because of this article

http://www.formenonline.cz/tag/sumo/

EDIT: Title of the article translates to "A tale of Noble Mountain"

Edited September 26, 2018 by maorencze
Avoiding double post

[Akinomaki 40,158]

Taka's side refuses to hand in the resignation in proper form - his lawyer: "The document we submitted conveys the intention to resign." video https://www3.nhk.or.jp/shutoken-news/20180926/0018938.html

Chiganoura prepares to take in the deshi - video http://www3.nhk.or.jp/shutoken-news/20180926/0018931.html

some glimpses from the wide shows - half of them today have each 1hour or more about Taka

Taka had told Chiganoura-oyakata around noon for the first time that he has to take his deshi - the only earlier warning of this was some bar talk like "I count on you, in the event there is some need."

All agree that the whole thing is for once a misunderstanding of Taka about what was demanded from him - the main reason for this sudden turnout is that he never communicates.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Akinomaki

[Rocks 1,807]

8 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Officially not resigned Takanohana did not appear for work today at the banzuke compilation conference, though Shibatayama thinks it was his duty. Chief Onomatsu: ""Absent, there was no communication from him"  https://this.kiji.is/417537396272825441?c=39546741839462401

Is he? I thought he got busted down to almost nothing or is basically all the Oyakata on the banzuke conference? As far as the paperwork if they really wanted him out any errors in the form would not be an issue. I'm sure they do want him out, but not like this where he throws a bunch of shade on the way out.

[Asashosakari 19,038]

7 minutes ago, Rocks said:

Is he? I thought he got busted down to almost nothing or is basically all the Oyakata on the banzuke conference?

Shimpan committee = banzuke committee.

[serge_gva 52]

1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

All agree that the whole thing is for once a misunderstanding of Taka about what was demanded from him - the main reason for this sudden turnout is that he never communicates.

All agree? Who exactly?

[Akinomaki 40,158]

1 hour ago, serge_gva said:

All agree? Who exactly?

the wide show bunch

Edited September 26, 2018 by Akinomaki

[Akinomaki 40,158]

The NSK announced that the decision about the transfer of the Takanohana-beya rikishi to Chiganoura-beya will not take place tomorrow, but at a special riji-kai  on Oct. 1st. The riji-kai tomorrow will have to agree on holding that special riji-kai.

In this case the decision can't place yet because "The 2 shisho have not properly discussed the situation and the request to change the affiliation is not in order"

http://www.daily.co.jp/general/2018/09/26/0011676500.shtml

Edited September 26, 2018 by Akinomaki

[Sakura 1,482]

2 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

The riji-kai tomorrow will have to agree on holding that special riji-kai.

It's almost like Robert's Rules of Order.

[Andreas21 183]

This really comes as a surprise to me. I remember this quote from Moti (Kintamayama)

Quote

Because they (the Japanese public), like myself, are convinced that there is something far more sinister going on in the background , a conspiracy singling out Takanohana as its target.

which dates back to March 16th. Now it is clear that it precisely describes what it now turns out to be.

[Akinomaki 40,158]

Chiganoura went to Takanohana-beya today to do that required proper discussion - he had put his missing seal on the transfer request and wants to hand in the orderly document tomorrow. Taka wants to have his representative negotiate with the NSK and have the resignation paper corrected to make it proper (a simple change of words on the document). http://mainichi.jp/articles/20180927/k00/00m/050/099000c

The lawyer of Takanohana (who also went to Chiganoura-beya earlier today) denies the reports that the heya premises are already put on the market for lease. http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2018/09/26/kiji/20180926s00005000329000c.html

Edited September 26, 2018 by Akinomaki

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,261]

52 minutes ago, Andreas21 said:

This really comes as a surprise to me. I remember this quote from Moti (Kintamayama)

which dates back to March 16th. Now it is clear that it precisely describes what it now turns out to be.

I seriously disagree that the general public views some conspiracy against takanohana. There might be some voices on Facebook or Twitter that are old school yokozuna takanohana fans but talking to typical Japanese about this I get a completely different impression. They don't even see it as some schism, just that the sumo association is some strange people and takanohana is one of them. My coworker put it succinctly - he's the weirdest one of a weird bunch. 

Honestly if takanohana and his lawyer don't even agree on recent events it's really less of a conspiracy and just he's a lot less intelligent than his outward fashion supposed. It's really too bad since he's clearly a capable technical coach / recruiter.

[Jabbamaru 166]

10 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Reading this thread reminds me of why I retired early from a big corporate job where characters like Taka and "Kyokai guys" were abound.   

Good for you; bigcorps kill baby dolphins.

Any chance of Taka being ill? I mean...With something more serious? Ex-rikishis arent the healthest people on the world...and he had some kind of colapse this year...

[Akinomaki 40,158]

36 minutes ago, Jabbamaru said:

Any chance of Taka being ill? I mean...With something more serious? Ex-rikishis arent the healthest people on the world...and he had some kind of colapse this year...

He keeps denying it

[Dapeng 233]

2 hours ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

I seriously disagree that the general public views some conspiracy against takanohana. There might be some voices on Facebook or Twitter that are old school yokozuna takanohana fans but talking to typical Japanese about this I get a completely different impression. They don't even see it as some schism, just that the sumo association is some strange people and takanohana is one of them. My coworker put it succinctly - he's the weirdest one of a weird bunch. 

Honestly if takanohana and his lawyer don't even agree on recent events it's really less of a conspiracy and just he's a lot less intelligent than his outward fashion supposed. It's really too bad since he's clearly a capable technical coach / recruiter.

This time I'd rather believe what Takanohana said about the reason of his retirement: that he was asked (by the kyokai) to acknowledge that the complain letter he filed to the government was not based on truth.  Whether his complain letter is based on truth or not, he no longer has a standing place in the kyokai. If his complain letter is based on truth, the kyokai will be in great trouble. If not based on truth, then he is a liar and there's no place for him in the kyokai . Whatever, he has to retire.

[Kintamayama 44,741]

3 hours ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

I seriously disagree that the general public views some conspiracy against takanohana.

I beg to differ. I've spoken to quite a few Japanese sumo fans who are also friends who have been telling me that there is a "movement" to do anything possible to stop him from being riji- this is from a few years back already. One of them even said they will find a way and that he bets  Takanohana will be out by 2019, to which I answered that he's paranoid.  Takanohana is very much loved by the public. Much more than, say, on our forum. And people who say that the  "sumo association is some strange people and Takanohana is one of them" are not people that I would take what they say about sumo seriously, and are not fans of sumo. Maybe baseball.

Regarding the fact they are now not recognizing the deshi moves to Chiganoura on some technicality too, when they know that is Takanohana's Achilles heel and soft spot, I would say: The Kyokai killed Takanohana, and now they are abusing the corpse.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Kintamayama

[Bumpkin 438]

In "Off-topic"; 

"Akebono gravely ill"; On March 9th, Akebono said, "I hope Takanohana succeeds in achieving what he set out to achieve."

Make of that statement what you will.

[Fukurou 534]

On 25/09/2018 at 11:03, Akinomaki said:

With Taka quitting, most of the retired yokozuna of this century have been "forced" to leave the NSK, only Musashimaru remains.

Wakanohana, Akebono, Asashoryu, Harumafuji - Takanohana

Maybe I misunderstood this. How was Akebono "forced" to leave? IIRC he retired because of all his injuries, and ultimately left an oyakata position to join K-1 because he was having financial problems (less income as oyakata, failed restaurant, etc)

[Akinomaki 40,158]

7 hours ago, Fukurou said:

Maybe I misunderstood this. How was Akebono "forced" to leave? IIRC he retired because of all his injuries, and ultimately left an oyakata position to join K-1 because he was having financial problems (less income as oyakata, failed restaurant, etc)

Neither Wakanohana, nor Akebono nor Takanohana were (about to get) thrown out - they felt (being) forced to leave

Edited September 27, 2018 by Akinomaki

[maorencze 144]

10 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

 And people who say that the  "sumo association is some strange people and Takanohana is one of them" are not people that I would take what they say about sumo seriously, and are not fans of sumo. Maybe baseball.

 

Which means that with an ongoing trend of sumo losing popularity with younger Japanese (got several Japanese friends as well, all from recent generation), these people ARE the general public.

OTOH, it seems from available info that most sumo fans in Japan definitely support Takanohana (two of my friends even mentioned that their grampas would rather see NSK dissolved than Taka leaving).

So I'd say both of you are right.

[maorencze 144]

1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

Neither Wakanohana, nor Akebono nor Takanohana were (about to get) thrown out - they felt (being) forced to leave

And what exactly were they supposed to do? When your bosses hate and bully you, your co-workers don't help, your views on things and company direction are clearly dismissed in favor of the exact opposite and your job itself sucks, you quit, plain and simple. And that's the case ANYWHERE, not just in sumo.

[Akinomaki 40,158]

1 hour ago, maorencze said:

And what exactly were they supposed to do? When your bosses hate and bully you, your co-workers don't help, your views on things and company direction are clearly dismissed in favor of the exact opposite and your job itself sucks, you quit, plain and simple. And that's the case ANYWHERE, not just in sumo.

Simply cooperate, obey the rules - especially Taka wanted to live by his own rules, live as a lone wolf in his own world when he couldn't force the others to change like he wanted. He only knows tachi-ai, not hanashi-ai, only confrontation not cooperation, he never talks things over with others - in Japanese society that is a type of character that gets bullied (if he can't dominate the others). It doesn't help that he is loved outside of HIS closed society more than all others combined.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Akinomaki

[maorencze 144]

1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

Simply cooperate, obey the rules - especially Taka wanted to live by his own rules, live as a lone wolf in his own world when he couldn't force the others to change like he wanted. He only knows tachi-ai, not hanashi-ai, only confrontation not cooperation, he never talks things over with others - in Japanese society that is a type of character that gets bullied (if he can't dominate the others). It doesn't help that he is loved outside of HIS closed society more than all others combined.

Which doesn't make it ok for NSK to essentially force out the aforementioned with their approach to people that beg to differ, does it?

And also - "cooperate, obey the rules" is not always an option, not with people whose only known method of management is forcing you to cooperate and obey regardless of what is right and what is helpful, beneficial or in any way logical for the company/corporation/society. I'd say that clearly "confrontation not cooperation" may be applied to just about any member of NSK leadership, Hakkaku especially, which is to be expected, rarely would anyone presume any sort of reason and common sense when dealing with people that spent 15-20 years literally butting heads with other people (does not help much with brain health and mental/cognitive capacities, I heard).