Hatsu Basho 2019 Discussion [SPOILERS]

[Michishige 66]

It’s good to see Chiyonokuni back in good form. I always saw him as the little engine that could, looking solid even with a 3-12 record in the joi. Injuries had a big impact for a bit, but he’s looking better this basho. 

[Old Shatterhand is dead 29]

7 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

Kise always did well in the prebasho keiko. Now we know how fake those keiko bouts could be. As Kitanofuji said: "how different the honbasho is ! "

 

 Kisenosato didn't leave his stable instead he fought with Sandanme ranked childs and Takayasu. Being a heya mate Takayasu's determination during these home keikos is pretty much questionable. it was a big mistake to avoid any keiko with really motivated opponents from sanyaku. if Hakuko and Kakuryu were able to participate why did Kisenostao just simply ignored these keikos?

[specialweek 2 136]

1 minute ago, Old Shatterhand is dead said:

 Kisenosato didn't leave his stable instead he fought with Sandanme ranked childs and Takayasu. Being a heya mate Takayasu's determination during these home keikos is pretty much questionable. it was a big mistake to avoid any keiko with really motivated opponents from sanyaku. if Hakuko and Kakuryu were able to participate why did Kisenostao just simply ignored these keikos?

Not true

[Old Shatterhand is dead 29]

6 hours ago, specialweek 2 said:

Not true

could you respect me with more details? I have a feeling you mixed up keiko and soken...

Edited January 15, 2019 by Old Shatterhand is dead

[Benihana 1,929]

6 minutes ago, Old Shatterhand is dead said:

could you respect me with more details? I have a feeling you mixed up keiko and senko...

 

[Michishige 66]

I’m curious about something I saw in Kintamayama’s highlights just now. The head shimpan apparently chastised Daieisho about his bowing? Is this common, shimpan giving instructions like this to the rikishi? What are the “power dynamics” (for lack of a better term) in such interactions? It surprised me to read...as an American, I look at shimpan as relatively minor functionaries and scoff at them chastising the rikishi, but I recognize that I probably don’t understand the reality of their situation and authority.

Oshiete kudasai!

 

[Old Shatterhand is dead 29]

12 minutes ago, Benihana said:

 

thanks for the clarification!

[Akōgyokuseki 228]

Ura loses today...

courtesy of Japan Sumo channel

[Dapeng 235]

32 minutes ago, Old Shatterhand is dead said:

 Kisenosato didn't leave his stable instead he fought with Sandanme ranked childs and Takayasu. Being a heya mate Takayasu's determination during these home keikos is pretty much questionable. it was a big mistake to avoid any keiko with really motivated opponents from sanyaku. if Hakuko and Kakuryu were able to participate why did Kisenostao just simply ignored these keikos?

Kise practiced a lot with Takayasu and won mostly, giving the impression that he only practiced at home. He did practice with others such as Takakeisho and still won mostly ! Apparently,  those rikishi deliberately let Kise win. Maybe they want to encourage him.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Dapeng

[Eikokurai 3,437]

Just now, Dapeng said:

Kise practiced a lot with Takayasu and won mostly, giving the impression that he only practiced at home. He did practiced with others such as Takakeisho and still won mostly ! Apparently,  those rikishi deliberately let Kise win. Maybe they want to encourage him.

They’re giving him false hope if they’re letting him win. It’s doing him no good at all.

Maybe the hiramaku guys want him to stick around for the kinboshi?

[Karasukurai 166]

Kaisei looks like he's back in form. Shouldn't be surprised really as he was Komusubi and M1 in the Autumn and got injured so his rank probably doesn't reflect his ability. I think he'll continue to cut a swathe through the Maegashira ranks this tournament.Good battle with Endo today too. Hoping for a Kaisei Vs Aoiyama match this basho.

 

[Dwale 419]

And Hakuho reminds us once again just how good he is. Hell of a match, though. Kaisei v. Endo was also quite good, my favorite of the basho thus far. A good day of sumo despite the poor showing from the ozeki.

And I don't know what they started putting in Nishikigi's wheaties, but I want some.

[Kintamayama 45,145]

Kisenosato had  a talk with his Oyakata at the heya after his bout today for an hour and a half, with 60 journalists camped outside.  That can only mean one thing. "We have nothing to add today," said a spokesman for the heya, politely asking the press to leave.

Has left the building?

[Rocks 1,809]

Getting very crazy. I feel sorry for the Ozeki. What a collective nightmare. Kisenosato has a lot of company to commiserate with. Speaking of Kise...he solves his inability to get his favorite inside left grip by giving up the morozashi? Interesting strategy. The guy is totally lost at this point. But I wouldn't put him down as a sure loss to Nishikigi on Day 4. Nishikigi did well today but nothing overpowering,  Kakuryu just had a terrible strategy. Takayasu is definitely off but he has been struggling early in the basho lately. If he can shake it off I think he still gets his KK. Tochinoshin and Goeido are kadoban bound though. I doubt either finishes the basho. Takakeisho is looking very impressive still but it was much closer today. A tactical retreat really served him well this match but Day 4 against Mitakeumi is going to be tough. Surviving a long match with Ichinojo was just what Hakuho needed.  I don't expect a zensho from him but I think he is still the prohibitive favorite for the yusho at this point. Ichinojo looked great so far, I just hope he doesn't have his usual let down after losing a close one in a big match like he usually does.

As far as Kise pulling out I don't expect anything like that before Day 6 even if he loses the first 5. He's already breaking records for ineptitude as a Yokozuna here, adding a few days to that doesn't change anything.

[Rocks 1,809]

3 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Kisenosato had  a talk with his Oyakata at the heya after his bout today for an hour and a half, with 60 journalists camped outside.  That can only mean one thing. "We have nothing to add today," said a spokesman for the heya, politely asking the press to leave.

Wow, last night they came right out and said he'd be back for Day 3. Still, I expect him to go Day 4. 

[Eikokurai 3,437]

7 minutes ago, Rocks said:

Wow, last night they came right out and said he'd be back for Day 3. Still, I expect him to go Day 4. 

What would be the point though? There’s zero evidence to suggest he’ll be able to get results against the remaining yaku ranks, even in the Ozekis’ current form, and (I believe) he needs to be perfect from here to day 15 to justify delaying retirement for another basho. I don’t think even 10 wins is enough anymore. If he stays in, he could easily end up makekoshi.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Eikokurai

[Rocks 1,809]

1 minute ago, Eikokurai said:

What would be the point though? There’s zero evidence to suggest he’ll be able to get results against the yaku ranks even in their current form and (I believe) he needs to be perfect from here to day 15 to justify delaying retirement for another basho. I don’t think even 10 wins is enough anymore. If he stays in, he could easily end up makekoshi.

The point would be, it ain't over. If he retires that's it. No matter how small a chance there is for him it's infinitely larger than if he walks away.  Kisenosato has had a great career. He is an outstanding ozeki who reached the pinnacle of his sport, winning 2 yusho and attaining Yokozuna status. He has more than done himself and his nation proud. That is what people in Japan will remember, not how his career ended. Everyone will, rightly, blame that on a very unfortunate injury to what was one of the most consistent and healthy rikishi ever. Why anyone thinks he should be concerned about his legacy or the Yokozuna status at this point I have no clue. 

[Eikokurai 3,437]

4 minutes ago, Rocks said:

The point would be, it ain't over. If he retires that's it. No matter how small a chance there is for him it's infinitely larger than if he walks away.  Kisenosato has had a great career. He is an outstanding ozeki who reached the pinnacle of his sport, winning 2 yusho and attaining Yokozuna status. He has more than done himself and his nation proud. That is what people in Japan will remember, not how his career ended. Everyone will, rightly, blame that on a very unfortunate injury to what was one of the most consistent and healthy rikishi ever. Why anyone thinks he should be concerned about his legacy or the Yokozuna status at this point I have no clue. 

He’s quite clearly concerned about his Yokozuna status.

[Amamaniac 2,079]

1 hour ago, Michishige said:

I’m curious about something I saw in Kintamayama’s highlights just now. The head shimpan apparently chastised Daieisho about his bowing? Is this common, shimpan giving instructions like this to the rikishi? What are the “power dynamics” (for lack of a better term) in such interactions? It surprised me to read...as an American, I look at shimpan as relatively minor functionaries and scoff at them chastising the rikishi, but I recognize that I probably don’t understand the reality of their situation and authority.

I suspect you meant "Onosho" who was responsible for a false start (matta) against Ryuden.  It is common etiquette for wrestlers in that situation to bow as an apology to their opponent and the head shimpan.

(How I detest autocorrect!  Every time I type shimpan, it gets changed to "shipman"!  Urgh.)

[rhyen 1,842]

4 hours ago, Akōgyokuseki said:

Probably asked Akiseyama for Enho's contacts... that's the key, I think.

Bloody hell, Kise....the saga continues much like an never-ending dragon ball story arc...

 

More like an unend-able Bleach arc because certain parties are still talking up Kisenosato all the time. 

[Rocks 1,809]

2 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

He’s quite clearly concerned about his Yokozuna status.

Yes,. because he can't seem to stop it from ending. But Kisenosato knows as much as anyone he is a very mental athlete. He knows if he can win 1 he can win 5. Mental state has always been his bugaboo. That same indecisiveness that has held him back his whole career will make deciding to walk away very, very hard. I seriously doubt Kise thinks to himself he can't beat these guys, just that he isn't doing so right now. 

[Eikokurai 3,437]

7 minutes ago, Rocks said:

Yes,. because he can't seem to stop it from ending. But Kisenosato knows as much as anyone he is a very mental athlete. He knows if he can win 1 he can win 5. Mental state has always been his bugaboo. That same indecisiveness that has held him back his whole career will make deciding to walk away very, very hard. I seriously doubt Kise thinks to himself he can't beat these guys, just that he isn't doing so right now. 

That’s an interesting point. Unfortunately it can’t go on forever and the YDC may just make the decision for him soon enough.

[Atenzan 1,081]

3 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

That’s an interesting point. Unfortunately it can’t go on forever and the YDC may just make the decision for him soon enough.

The YDC can't actually make any decision, per se, just a recommendation. Tagonoura-oyakata might be able to be more "persuasive" with his "recommendation", but in the end it's up to the fat man on when the fat lady will sing. 

[Amamaniac 2,079]

Given the fact that Kisenosato's straight-loss as a Yokozuna record has extended to 8, perhaps the JSA should consider making it a rule that Yokozunas retire after what is essentially a disgraceful makekoshi.  

(Before anyone jumps on me, I know it ain't gonna happen.)

Edited February 1, 2019 by Amamaniac

[Yamanashi 3,847]

4 minutes ago, Atenzan said:

The YDC can't actually make any decision, per se, just a recommendation. Tagonoura-oyakata might be able to be more "persuasive" with his "recommendation", but in the end it's up to the fat man on when the fat lady will sing. 

Well, someone has to pay for a string of career-long kinboshi every basho, and another two months of superstar salary.  Pretty soon, they'll be doing some pretty strong recommending, I think.