Heisei strongest yokozuna ranking

[Akinomaki 40,801]

The Heisei era is about to end - Nikkan Spa! published some ranking of the strongest yokozuna of the era - the no.1 should need no debate - but who do you think is no.2 and with how many less votes than the top? Only 100 (each) men and women were asked who they think is the strongest (with 146 answers) -  limited to all over Japan, so it's no wonder that the no. 10 is not Kisenosato http://nikkan-spa.jp/1550647

10. Kakuryu 1 vote

7. Harumafuji, Musashimaru, Asahifuji 3 votes each

6. Akebono 8 votes

5. Kisenosato 10 votes

4. Wakanohana 12 votes

Spoiler

3. Asashoryu 29 votes

2. Takanohana 38 votes

1. Hakuho 39 votes

Edited February 18, 2019 by Akinomaki

[Naganoyama 5,948]

Hakuho's ranking notwithstanding, this list has very little to do with the actual strength of the 10 yokozuna in question and much more to do with emotion. A much more accurate list could be produced with much less effort merely by listing the yokozuna in order of the number of makuuchi yusho they won.

 

[mikawa 1,794]

15 minutes ago, Naganoyama said:

A much more accurate list could be produced with much less effort merely by listing the yokozuna in order of the number of makuuchi yusho they won.

Good idea.

Hakuho: 41
Asashoryu: 25
Takanohana: 22
Musashimaru: 12
Akebono: 11
Harumafuji: 9
Kakuryu: 5
Wakanohana: 5
Asahifuji: 4
Kisenosato: 2

It's arguable whether Asashoryu is actually a stronger Yokozuna than Takanohana, and Musashimaru's position on the list seems a bit off as well.

Edited February 18, 2019 by mikawa

[Churaumi 745]

I think you’d have to look at the competition the yokozuna faced as well. We’re they the only yokozuna at the time? How strong were the ozeki? At least three of those careers were cut short, affecting their yusho totals. I’m not usually big on the “what-ifs” in sumo, but a list like this is half built on those.

[Morningstar 118]

I disagree. Only actual results matter, not what if's. Because you can what if anything and there is no method to determine correct what ifing.

 

[Nantonoyama 252]

1 hour ago, Morningstar said:

I disagree. Only actual results matter, not what if's. Because you can what if anything and there is no method to determine correct what ifing.

 

Debatable. Exchange Harumafuji and Asashoryu career timespan, and both would get 15-20 yusho imho. Comparisons are hard for this very reason that adversity varies

[Naganoyama 5,948]

I wasn't particularly suggesting that my answer would produce a 100% globally certified correct sequence - just that it would be a better starting point than polling my granny and her neighbour's sister-in-law's second best friend.

[Dapeng 236]

6 hours ago, Churaumi said:

I think you’d have to look at the competition the yokozuna faced as well. We’re they the only yokozuna at the time? How strong were the ozeki? At least three of those careers were cut short, affecting their yusho totals. I’m not usually big on the “what-ifs” in sumo, but a list like this is half built on those.

Sure. For example, Akebono won only 11 yusho, half of Takanohana. However, he has exactly the 50% (21-21) winning rate with Takanohana.

[Dapeng 236]

Takanohana didn't need to fight many very strong rikishi of his own heya, but Akebono had to fight almost every one.

[Dapeng 236]

7 hours ago, mikawa said:

Good idea.

Hakuho: 41
Asashoryu: 25
Takanohana: 22
Musashimaru: 12
Akebono: 11
Harumafuji: 9
Kakuryu: 5
Wakanohana: 5
Asahifuji: 4
Kisenosato: 2

It's arguable whether Asashoryu is actually a stronger Yokozuna than Takanohana, and Musashimaru's position on the list seems a bit off as well.

Maybe Kisenosato was not the most weak yokozuna, but he was the most unlucky one for sure.

Edited February 18, 2019 by Dapeng

[Joaoiyama 313]

My personal list.

Hakuho
Asashoryu
Takanohana
Akebono
Harumafuji
Musashimaru
Wakanohana
Kakuryu
Asahifuji
Kisenosato

[Churaumi 745]

My list:

Hakuho

Asashoryu

Takanohana

Harumafuji

Akebono

Musashimaru

Kakuryu 

Wakanohana

Kisenosato

Asahifuji

I bumped up Harumafuji and Kakuryu because they had to beat Hakuho so often to get their wins. I have to plead some ignorance regarding Asahifuji, but looking over his numbers I’m pretty sure he would have been passed by Kisenosato in importance if Kisenosato had stayed healthy. I considered “what-ifs” though. Taking injuries and karaoke remote incidents into account, I agree with Joaoiyama. Sorry for the double spaced list, the phone updated and started double spacing on its own.

[Dapeng 236]

1 hour ago, Churaumi said:

My list:

Hakuho

Asashoryu

Takanohana

Harumafuji

Akebono

Musashimaru

Kakuryu 

Wakanohana

Kisenosato

Asahifuji

I bumped up Harumafuji and Kakuryu because they had to beat Hakuho so often to get their wins. I have to plead some ignorance regarding Asahifuji, but looking over his numbers I’m pretty sure he would have been passed by Kisenosato in importance if Kisenosato had stayed healthy. I considered “what-ifs” though. Taking injuries and karaoke remote incidents into account, I agree with Joaoiyama. Sorry for the double spaced list, the phone updated and started double spacing on its own.

Agree with you from Hakuho to Musashimaru. But I think Asahifuji (4 yusho) is definitely better than Kisenosato (2 yusho). Asahifuji's ozeki career is much shorter than Kise, with one 14-1 yusho and another nonyusho 14-1, showing that he was a stronger ozeki than Kise was. His promotion to yokozuna was based on two back to back yusho at 14-1, more convincing than Kise's. 

If only considering their performances as yokozuna, Kise is No. 10 without argument, Waka No. 9, Asahifuji No. 8, Kakuryu No. 7. 

 

[Churaumi 745]

See, I took more than just yokozuna time into account. I agree with you if I limit my scope to just yokozuna time. However, Kisenosato had such a strong ozeki career at a bad time. Had Hakuho not been so dominating through the first years of Kisenosato’s ozeki time, he might have worn a tsuna years ago. However, his inability to not choke keeps him way down my list. After all, Harumafuji and Kakuryu both made it at that time.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Churaumi
Had to address 70 and 71.

[Kintamayama 45,530]

1 hour ago, John Gunning said:

Wakanoho

 

 

Wשkanohou?

[Washuyama 641]

5 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Wשkanohou?

AKA "70"

[Hageouryu 16]

Hokutoumi and Chiyonofuji each won 5 yusho at the start of the Heisei Era. Not sure if possible rose-tinted glasses of a newbie sumo fan played a part, but both were more exciting to me than Asahifuji (and more recently Kakuryu and Kisenosato). And Musashimaru's 12 yusho were spread over his (injury-induced?) morph from an oshi to a yotsu specialist which places him as #4 above Akebono on my list.

[Andreas21 188]

On 18/02/2019 at 17:07, Churaumi said:

I think you’d have to look at the competition the yokozuna faced as well. We’re they the only yokozuna at the time? How strong were the ozeki?

The problem is that the perception whether the competition is strong is also highly dependent on the rest of the competition faced, including the Yokozuna himself. Vicious circle that is!

So they are two approaches left. One very technical: count yushos, wins, win-loss-ratios and so on.

The other one essentially subjective: quality of Sumo, appearance, charisma, personification of a certain style.

So there is nothing really wrong with polling Naganoyama's granny and other Sumo experts as it captures the second approach perfectly.

[Dapeng 236]

6 hours ago, Hageouryu said:

Hokutoumi and Chiyonofuji each won 5 yusho at the start of the Heisei Era. Not sure if possible rose-tinted glasses of a newbie sumo fan played a part, but both were more exciting to me than Asahifuji (and more recently Kakuryu and Kisenosato). And Musashimaru's 12 yusho were spread over his (injury-induced?) morph from an oshi to a yotsu specialist which places him as #4 above Akebono on my list.

Hokutoumi and Chiyonofuji were promoted to yokozuna in Showa era, not in Heise era.

As to Musashimaru, besides having a losing record with Akebono (16 wins - 22 losses), his records with Futagoyama rikishies were worse than  Akebono's. He has 19 - 29 with Takanohana, 24 - 14 with Wakanohana, 37 - 21 with Takanonami, and 32 - 11 with Akinoshima. (Total winning rate 59.9%)

On the other hand, Akebono was 21 - 21 with Takanohana, 18 - 17 with Wakanohana,  34 -5 with Takanonami, and 30 - 8 with Akinoshima. (Total winning rate 66.9%)

[Jabbamaru 167]

1.Hakuho

2.Hakuho

3.Hakuho

4.Hakuho

5.Hakuho

6.Asashoryu

7.Takanohana

8.Akebono

9.Harumafuji

10.Hakuho with injured toe

 

 

[yorikiried by fate 2,029]

3 hours ago, Jabbamaru said:

1.Hakuho/Asashoryu

2.Asashoryu/Hakuho

3.Hakuho/Asashoryu

4.Asashoryu/Hakuho

5.Hakuho/Asashoryu

6.Asashoryu/Hakuho

7.Takanohana

8.Akebono

9.Harumafuji

10.Hakuho in compliance mode

 

 

Here, I corrected that for you.

[Kintamayama 45,530]

Promo for a documentary on Hakuhou to be aired on March 2nd on TBS Japan :

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Kintamayama

[Benevolance 2,511]

The documentary is really just Hakuho saying, "Hi, I'm Hakuho. I drank a lot of milk then won a lot. Buy Hakuhou brand rice!" and then three hours of him kicking everyone's ass over and over and over. Then next year, Peter Jackson releases the extended edition with 5 hours of Hakuho kicking everyone's ass, with an outtakes section that highlights the 16 times Kise won. 

[Yamanashi 3,904]

3 hours ago, Benevolance said:

The documentary is really just Hakuho saying, "Hi, I'm Hakuho. I drank a lot of milk then won a lot. Buy Hakuhou brand rice!" and then three hours of him kicking everyone's ass over and over and over. Then next year, Peter Jackson releases the extended edition with 5 hours of Hakuho kicking everyone's ass, with an outtakes section that highlights the 16 times Kise won. 

I vacillated between the "Ha Ha" icon and the "shame on you" icon, but they don't have the second one, so ...

[yorikiried by fate 2,029]

If Peter Jackson was involved, it would include a lot of NZ Tourism Board footage. cartoonish make-up, wooden actors and phony references to some literary source that had been thoroughly raped in the process.

Disclaimer: Not a fan.